Penn State scandal (merged)

[ABQduck]

Because the death penalty's related to university athletics and performances related to cheating to gain unfair advantage and failure to monitor/admit/change.

Really, this is a whole different field of a matter - a university problem (not just a university athletics problem) that crosses over into a (not rehearsed in law so not sure what level it falls upon) crime and stuff at a larger but really non-athletic level.


The NCAA doing such here would really just be them overstepping their own limits...in a way that'd really only be them stepping in for some good press in a bad situation (like politicians sometimes do)

I assume a University could self impose a ban or the like. Seems to me this is beyond "blatant cheating" as in the case of SMU. Vacating wins and removing statues does little to assuage imo.

 

[vols4sure]

I'm trying to read the whole thing. I read the indictment and some of the court transcripts, and this almost upsets me even more. Sandusky is a monster, and monsters do terrible things. But these men aren't monsters, yet they had so many opportunities to do something, anything, and they aided and abetted Sandusky's crimes.

They are worse than Sandusky. Sandusky obviously had a mental illness, but they were supposedly of sane mind and they just allowed it to continue to happen. Sandusky was a predator that should have been in jail a long time ago.

 

[TrueOrange]

Aside from writing some very large checks to the victims, Penn State needs to step up and take some symbolic, but meaningful actions. Paterno's statue should come down; his name should be removed from all of those buildings on campus; and all wins should be vacated from 2001 on. It was a rotten culture surrounding the football program that inspired many adults to turn their heads and children were having their lives destroyed, and any accomplishments during that era came at the expense of those kids.

I hope every SEC member will refuse to participate in athletics against Penn State until they do what I just laid out.

I do think Penn St needs to do something here like you're saying.


However I don't think the SEC schools need to get involved here with any sort of declaration for what penn st should do or such. It's one thing if they don't want to do anything with the school that's cool, but they don't need to go public and drag themselves into this of their own accord.

 

[knucklehead_vol]

Every ethical rule that exists was broken, no doubt.

But the NCAA doesn't have anything in their bylaws that applies to this situation. Maybe they should, but they don't.

I have been reading the ncaa is thinking about a two year ban. I hope you are wrong.

 

[YorkVol]

Yea, let's take an absurd amount of the university's money away from present and future students who didn't contribute one iota to this scandal and give a ridiculous amount of cash to Sandusky's victims.

There's an absolute necessity for Penn State to give financial compensation to the victims, but anything over $1 million per victim is really pushing it.

They need to feel some major pain for this. Last summer I sent two of my boys to football camp at Penn State, I won't let them set foot on campus now. And, yes, I know the perpetrator has been convicted and will soon be sentenced, but in my view, this reflects the PSU culture and that hasn't nor will it change.

 

[salutethehill]

They are worse than Sandusky. Sandusky obviously had a mental illness, but they were supposedly of sane mind and they just allowed it to continue to happen. Sandusky was a predator that should have been in jail a long time ago.

^^ I tend to lean towards this line of thinking. They may not be worse than Sandusky, but they're right up there with him, IMO.

 

[bamawriter]

I do think Penn St needs to do something here like you're saying.


However I don't think the SEC schools need to get involved here with any sort of declaration for what penn st should do or such. It's one thing if they don't want to do anything with the school that's cool, but they don't need to go public and drag themselves into this of their own accord.

I'm not saying it should be done publicly.

 

[TrueOrange]

I assume a University could self impose a ban or the like. Seems to me this is beyond "blatant cheating" as in the case of SMU. Vacating wins and removing statues does little to assuage imo.

It doesn't really matter though, this is a matter beyond the NCAA and not under their bylaws to cover or act upon, especially under the "death penalty" clause. I understand people want a harsh (or the harshest) punishment for this series of actions, but the sports-side (and something directed at little more than their fans) isn't really the right/proper way...perhaps it's just the closest/most familiar for sports fans.

It'd be a reach for the NCAA to fit this into the span of their rule book, not without stretching things for an organization like this.

This is criminal issue and the punishments need/should come from that angle and perhaps those courts, not a sports-related one

 

[TrueOrange]

I'm not saying it should be done publicly.

Ok, I misunderstood then. My apologies.

 

[orangesparkles]

I disagree wholeheartedly. There are thousands of places you can go to receive an education. And the staff of those places didn't allow a pedophile to use their facilities for child rape.

The students at Penn State won't be damaged by the school being bled dry.

I don't see how anyone should expect Penn State to damage its academic standing and reputation for crimes that involve such an overwhelmingly small percentage of the millions of individuals involved with Penn State over the years. Bleeding the school dry worsens conditions for current students, makes future students less likely to apply (obviously this scandal will hurt, but there are some people who value a quality education over something that took place 11 years ago) and in turn drastically devalue the degrees of previous students.

Wanting the school to ruin itself is a ridiculously emotional response to a sad situation.

 

[TrueOrange]

Every ethical rule that exists was broken, no doubt.

But the NCAA doesn't have anything in their bylaws that applies to this situation. Maybe they should, but they don't.

I have a question, something that popped into my mind.

I'm not fully familiar with how it all works, but what about their AAU membership? Is this something for which the other members might feel/choose to vote them out of the organization?

 

[Brave Volunteer]

In all honesty, I think the Penn State football program should be suspended for the forseeable future.

 

[knucklehead_vol]

It doesn't really matter though, this is a matter beyond the NCAA and not under their bylaws to cover or act upon, especially under the "death penalty" clause. I understand people want a harsh (or the harshest) punishment for this series of actions, but the sports-side (and something directed at little more than their fans) isn't really the right/proper way...perhaps it's just the closest/most familiar for sports fans.

It'd be a reach for the NCAA to fit this into the span of their rule book, not without stretching things for an organization like this.

This is criminal issue and the punishments need/should come from that angle and perhaps those courts, not a sports-related one

I disagree...

Check out this article.

Ventre: NCAA must give death penalty to Penn St. | NBC Sports

 

[TrueOrange]

I have been reading the ncaa is thinking about a two year ban. I hope you are wrong.

I've been hearing their lawyers were feeling this would be a stretch for them to try to quantify/fit this into some (at the least football) punishment

What might be interesting to see is how/what the sports media does/pushes for here and if that has any sort of end effect. ESPN has already thrown out twice in less than half an hour about "lack of institutional control" being a broad term.


...I'd like to think the NCAA is less influenced by media whims than say the heisman committee.

 

[bamawriter]

I don't see how anyone should expect Penn State to damage its academic standing and reputation for crimes that involve such an overwhelmingly small percentage of the millions of individuals involved with Penn State over the years. Bleeding the school dry worsens conditions for current students, makes future students less likely to apply (obviously this scandal will hurt, but there are some people who value a quality education over something that took place 11 years ago) and in turn drastically devalue the degrees of previous students.

Wanting the school to ruin itself is a ridiculously emotional response to a sad situation.

The school already ruined itself. I'm much less concerned with the school's academic integrity than I am with the lives that were ruined.

 

[bamawriter]

I have a question, something that popped into my mind.

I'm not fully familiar with how it all works, but what abou their AAU membership? Is this something for which the other members might feel/choose to vote them out of the organization?

I would think the AAU could do whatever they want.

 

[knucklehead_vol]

From the article


I always felt the NCAA should restrict itself to competition-based offenses. But this Penn State calamity IS a competition-based offense.

If the worst is true, then Paterno and other officials at Penn State covered up Sandusky’s crimes because they wanted to protect the sanctity of the football program and make sure it continued unfettered, winning games and raking in cash.

CNN reported that emails were exchanged in 2001 among Penn State administrators suggesting a cover-up, and that the e-mails intimated that Paterno had knowledge about the decision not to report the allegations made against Sandusky to outside authorities. If that is true, that means a conspiracy existed to keep football program running smoothly and without interference.

That is a competition-based offense, regardless of the hideous nature of the acts at the center of it all.

Also, CNN reported how powerful an overlord Paterno was at Penn State, and how he and others around him bullied anyone who poked their noses into the running of the program, including the meting out of punishment to players who ran afoul of the law or the rules. Vicky Triponey, then vice president of student affairs in charge of disciplining students, called Paterno’s behavior “atrocious” in an e-mail to then-Penn State president Graham Spanier and said, “I am very troubled by the manipulative, disrespectful, uncivil and abusive behavior of our football coach.”

Who knows what happened in each case of player discipline at Penn State over the course of Paterno’s long career? It would be wrong to assume that Paterno was always more lenient with his guys than the VP of student affairs would have been. And if you condemned a major college football coach every time he acted boorishly toward someone in the school’s administration, your condemning schedule would be completely full.

Paterno’s alleged actions and behavior outside of the Sandusky matter are only relevant in that they apparently reveal the magnitude of the fiefdom the legendary head coach created, resulting in what appears to have been an atmosphere of fear and intimidation when it came to a desire for transparency from the outside.

That brings us to Sandusky, and the NCAA.

It’s all intertwined. If the reports are correct, Paterno’s strongman tactics were applied to doling out penalties to players who got involved in off-campus fights, and they also were used to sweep Sandusky's horrible deeds under the rug. The coach’s iron-fisted reign over the football program apparently included overseeing his players while turning a blind eye toward his former defensive coordinator.

Why would he have done all that? Football. What is the NCAA in charge of regulating? Among other sports, football.

The NCAA surely never has seen anything quite like this. A sexual predator not only being protected from detection by one of its member institutions, but allowed to continue his abhorrent behavior? It sounds like some storyline concocted for an episode of a network procedural. The fact that it was real is beyond chilling.

Again, the NCAA doesn’t yet know all the facts. But it can prepare in case all the facts add up to the worst possible outcome. Since it has been determined that Penn State knew a lot more than it let on —including possible involvement by its late football coach in keeping silent about Sandusky’s actions — then the NCAA should prepare to hand down its death penalty to a Division I football program for only the second time in its history, after Southern Methodist University received it in 1987.

This one time the public should welcome the NCAA’s heavy hand.

 

[bamawriter]

I disagree...

Check out this article.

Ventre: NCAA must give death penalty to Penn St. | NBC Sports

I'm not suggesting that the NCAA couldn't stretch their rulebook to make it apply to this situation. But it would set a dangerous precedent, and I hope they show the appropriate restraint and stay out of it.

It should be up to Penn State to do the right thing here. If that includes disbanding their football program, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I've been hearing their lawyers were feeling this would be a stretch for them to try to quantify/fit this into some (at the least football) punishment

What might be interesting to see is how/what the sports media does/pushes for here and if that has any sort of end effect. ESPN has already thrown out twice in less than half an hour about "lack of institutional control" being a broad term.


...I'd like to think the NCAA is less influenced by media whims than say the heisman committee.

Honestly, the ban NEEDS to be self-imposed by the University, if only from a PR standpoint. They don't need to have this enforced upon them by an outside entity. It needs to come from them directly and it needs to be a convincingly stringent sentence.

 

[TrueOrange]

I'm not suggesting that the NCAA couldn't stretch their rulebook to make it apply to this situation. But it would set a dangerous precedent, and I hope they show the appropriate restraint and stay out of it.

It should be up to Penn State to do the right thing here. If that includes disbanding their football program, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Agree pretty much.

 

[TrueOrange]

Honestly, the ban NEEDS to be self-imposed by the University, if only from a PR standpoint. They don't need to have this enforced upon them by an outside entity. It needs to come from them directly and it needs to be a convincingly stringent sentence.

That I'd agree with, mainly the point that it needs to come from them...and there's such a spotlight on them I can't see how they'd choose not to in the coming months.

 

[TrueOrange]

I would think the AAU could do whatever they want.

Right, but maybe I misworded it. Would they actually consider doing something regarding someone's membership over something like this? (Would this be such a black eye on penn st as a whole that they'd even be likely to consider it?)

It's pretty much the (top) elite college club, but I'm not overly familiar with their history or tendencies. In their 100 years or so of existence, it seems like the only times they've revoked membership had been for a lack of an on-campus med school (Nebraska), a dispute over counting non-federal grants (Syracuse...and that was done voluntarily), and following differed "institutional emphasis and energies" (Catholic University of America)

 

[VolBeef88]

Yea, let's take an absurd amount of the university's money away from present and future students who didn't contribute one iota to this scandal and give a ridiculous amount of cash to Sandusky's victims.

There's an absolute necessity for Penn State to give financial compensation to the victims, but anything over $1 million per victim is really pushing it.

So the sanctity of a young boy is valued at 1 Million dollars.
I value children a helluva lot more than that.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[orangesparkles]

So the sanctity of a young boy is valued at 1 Million dollars.
I value children a helluva lot more than that.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Donating money to child abuse awareness and prevention organizations is a much better choice than writing a blank check to the victim of a monster. No amount of money can undo what they went through, and giving an excessively large sum of money to the victims as compensation seems both unnecessary and unfair to the countless other victims of molestation who didn't have their abuse covered up by a gigantic university.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

So the sanctity of a young boy is valued at 1 Million dollars.
I value children a helluva lot more than that.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

1 million dollars seems more than appropriate.