Penn State scandal (merged)

#5,101
#5,101
Lexvol said:
Did the "program" give money to Albert Means, or was it out of control boosters? The program created the environment that allowed the abuse to take place.

I don't mention that to rub salt in any wounds. Just to make a point.

Penn State allowed Jo Pa to become a "Godfather".
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And the "Godfather" allowed rape of little boys just feet from his office. As did the PSU President, VP and AD. The institution therefore is guilty. And every damned one of them should pay. As should the institution. If we can't hammer these people then may God help our nation.
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#5,102
#5,102
CountVolcula said:
Yes!

If they gave up Sandusky, they would have all been heroes and Jo Pas legend would be bigger than it was.

His ego, his friend, and his program was more important
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I don't consider turning in a child molester to be heroic. It's simply what they were supposed to do. Had a low-level staffer ignored Paterno and contacted police, that would have been more "heroic."
 
#5,104
#5,104
CountVolcula said:
Seems like you put sports ahead of whats important
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I'd thought the people crying out for blood were doing the same thing.

This was something done by people who worked in the program but not something directly done to or for the program itself...it just feels like saying - I dunno, if they had (someone's going to call out just the example but I'm having to think at the gym on the spot)been math professors and done this, that (even though everyone's gone) the math department should be completely shut down as though the sole responsible entity.


I get that people want blood. I get that people are tying it solely to the football program (because that's what these people mainly see when that logo comes up). But people calling the NCAA just to swoop out of nowhere and on a limb give its harshest penalty (to something now devoid of the people that committed this) just feels like more of an emotional knee jerk reaction than a punishment/judgement like how these systems are built upon to handle their own respective fields.

(Plus you're all giving the NCAA some scary new precedents to use that any addendum won't be able to be discussed to voted on for addition until the next summer...and as espn also noted, the NCAA can't just "make up the rules as they go along")
 
#5,105
#5,105
vols4sure said:
Your point will be helped if PSU started taking actions to distance themselves from Paterno and his legacy. Last I checked, students rioted when he was asked to resign, Paterno's statute is still standing, etc.
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How are fans the people in charge at the university how? (i mean we had fans protesting to keep bruce pearl...theyre fans)

they've had a total of half a day to react to absolutely everything about it coming out public, especially if anything the board said turns out true.

They actually have to be given a chance to act first rather than assume they're going to put their thumbs on their noses and stick out their tongues.
 
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#5,106
#5,106
ukvols said:
All true.

I think it's more likely that the death penalty is never again handed to any major football program than it is that the NCAA will give it to PSU now.
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Not unless someone not only really, really cheats, but proceeds to stick up more of a middle finger than USC did to the NCAA and their investigators.
 
#5,107
#5,107
Vercingetorix said:
As far as all the handwringing over the innocent bystanders -- as I said earlier, if the NCAA didn't worry about collateral damage in the the Reggie Bush case, then I don't see why that's any kind of argument now.
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What possible collateral damage near...well, any scale would they have been ignoring with the Reggie bush case? They banned them from 2 bowl games and everything else was internal.
 
#5,109
#5,109
Vercingetorix said:
You want to punish actions? Fine. The NCAA now has evidence that the football coach and AD acted to cover up a child rape that committed in the football showers by a former coach. That's an action in violation of the "fundamental values" part of the NCAA rulebook. It should be punished. I don't care that the coach is dead and the AD is gone; when has the NCAA cared about the coach being gone when it's handed out punishment before?
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Well for one, when the department let go of Bruce Pearl rather than keep him going into our hearings...I'd say that made a difference
 
#5,110
#5,110
I'm not in favor of a death penalty, but believe there should be some MAJOR financial penalties given to PSU. This was not a recruiting violation or anything of the such... this was criminal! Just like BP had to provide funding for the gulf coast clean up and restoration, PSU should have to provide funding for child abuse prevention. This could be done in many different ways, and it should be stiff.

Relative to the football program, I think there should be penalties... perhaps something similar to USC. The program (and yes... people determine the culture of a program) allowed things to happen that should never have been part of a cover up. This is a major embarrassment for the entire university.
 
#5,112
#5,112
Vercingetorix said:
Membership organizations sanction their members for stuff that happens outside their purview all the time. My wife's a CPA, but if she gets busted for DUI, she could lose her license, even though that obviously has nothing to do with her professional life. Lawyers get disbarred for unrelated crimes. This is how membership organizations work.

Anyway, Bruce Feldman certainly thinks the NCAA can get involved if they choose to, and I'm guessing that he knows more about it than anybody on this board.
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Espn also has pretty much said that the NCAA can only get involved with precedent...followed by "they can't make up the rules as they go"

Out of the 4 former NCAA officials (not referees) / lawyers they talked to, only 1 had said that they might be able to stretch their powers over this and still do so within reason
 
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#5,113
#5,113
VolBeef88 said:
And the "Godfather" allowed rape of little boys just feet from his office. As did the PSU President, VP and AD. The institution therefore is guilty. And every damned one of them should pay. As should the institution. If we can't hammer these people then may God help our nation.
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The rapist is in jail for life; the coach died; the president, AD lost their jobs; the school (& possibly the former prez, VP, & AD) will get hit with at least 20-30 expensive civil suits or so

Is that not hammering those involved?
 
#5,114
#5,114
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I'm not in favor of a death penalty, but believe there should be some MAJOR financial penalties given to PSU. This was not a recruiting violation or anything of the such... this was criminal! Just like BP had to provide funding for the gulf coast clean up and restoration, PSU should have to provide funding for child abuse prevention. This could be done in many different ways, and it should be stiff.
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This likely will get expensive for them. They're going to get hit with lots of civil suits


Relative to the football program, I think there should be penalties... perhaps something similar to USC. The program (and yes... people determine the culture of a program) allowed things to happen that should never have been part of a cover up. This is a major embarrassment for the entire university.
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No denying it's an embarrassment the university's going to be living and dealing with from here on out.
 
#5,115
#5,115
Some highlights of the report:


-Joe Paterno Knew In 1998
-Paterno Gave Jerry Sandusky The Option To Keep Coaching "As Long As He Was The Coach"
-Paterno Family Statement Blames Everyone But Joe Paterno, Who Is To Blame
-In 1998, Jerry Sandusky Told State Officials And University Police That "He Had Done This With Other Children In The Past"
-Janitors Didn't Report Jerry Sandusky's 2000 Rape Incident Because They Feared Joe Paterno Would Fire Them
-The 10 Most Appalling Revelations About Graham Spanier, And Why He Could Be The Next One Charged
-The NCAA Is Reading The Freeh Report Very Closely
-In 1998, Buying $400 Worth Of Clothes For A Player Got You Banned From Penn State. Being Investigated For Child Sexual Assault Did Not.
-The Second Mile Took No Action After Being Informed Of Sandusky's 2001 Shower Incident
-Report: TVs At Penn State's Student Center Were Switched Away From Live Coverage Of The Freeh Report's Release
-Freeh Report: Detective Alludes To Penn State Administrators' Habit Of Interfering With Investigations
-ESPN Trots Out Matt Millen To Fumble His Way Through The Freeh Report
-Nike Strips Joe Paterno's Name From Its Child Care Center

-Paterno Family Statement Blames Everyone But Joe Paterno, Who Is To Blame
-Roddy White Said Some Stupid Things About Penn State On Twitter Today
-The NCAA Is Reading The Freeh Report Very Closely
-The 10 Most Appalling Revelations About Graham Spanier, And Why He Could Be The Next One Charged
-Penn State's Board Of Trustees Hired The Freeh Group, But They Did Not Escape Its Scrutiny
-Penn State Failed To Comply With Federal Law For Two Decades
-Jay Paterno: The Freeh Report Contains "No New Facts," Just "Some New Interpretations Of Things"
-Columnist Who Did Joe Paterno's Full-Of-**** Last Interview Now Agrees Paterno Was Full Of ****
 
#5,116
#5,116
don't really understand the thought of punishing players that had nothing to do with anything except playing football. They've already been through the muck with this thing. Cancelling the football program and telling players and family to take a hike doesn't make much sense to me. Find a way to punish all the offenders to the maximum, but adversely affecting thousands of people due to the actions of a few doesn't make sense to me.
 
#5,117
#5,117
knucklehead_vol said:
You mean like cover up two decades, that we know of, of molestation? All for a game.
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I must have totally forgotten where the NCAA was actually an organization of the law not just a system of monitoring the fair/equal play of sports as well as student athletes...:ermm:
 
#5,118
#5,118
Spartacavolus said:
don't really understand the thought of punishing players that had nothing to do with anything except playing football. They've already been through the muck with this thing. Cancelling the football program and telling players and family to take a hike doesn't make much sense to me. Find a way to punish all the offenders to the maximum, but adversely affecting thousands of people due to the actions of a few doesn't make sense to me.
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What the criminal courts are for friend
 
#5,120
#5,120
Scenario for all Vols fans saying the NCAA should get involved:

The Cam Clear situation plays out exactly the same way, except Dooley doesn't dismiss him. He cops a very fast plea and get probation. Dooley suspends him for four games.

The NCAA decides that's not enough and suspends Clear for 12 games. And because Dooley didn't act when the accusations were first brought to his attention, they dock Tennessee 6 scholarships and give them a one year bowl ban.


You okay with that?
 
#5,121
#5,121
bamawriter said:
Scenario for all Vols fans saying the NCAA should get involved:

The Cam Clear situation plays out exactly the same way, except Dooley doesn't dismiss him. He cops a very fast plea and get probation. Dooley suspends him for four games.

The NCAA decides that's not enough and suspends Clear for 12 games. And because Dooley didn't act when the accusations were first brought to his attention, they dock Tennessee 6 scholarships and give them a one year bowl ban.


You okay with that?
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Innocent children being molested>Clear situation


I didn't write this but thought it was good:

The aforementioned penalties crushed programs for buying players cars, clothes, jewelry or access to agents. Is there a commensurate punishment for actively covering up ongoing child rape? The Freeh report and grand jury testimonies confirm that Penn State's prime motive for covering up Sandusky's crimes was to preserve the image of its football program, the flagship of the institution. The conclusion that Spanier, Paterno, and others reached was the momentum and public image of its football program were far more important than intervening in the sexual abuse of children - on and off its property - by one of its native sons. This cannot happen again.

Failing to suspend the PSU football program from NCAA participation (for years, if not indefinitely) ranks this scandal as a less serious offence than paying recruits under the table. The message must be sent that no athletic program or university is more important than the law, nor more important than protecting the members of its community. The magnitude of the crimes and cover-up at PSU is now clear. The atrocities were not the product of one rogue individual, but indeed were prolonged and even facilitated by the synergy of an institution that fancied itself too big to fail. The NCAA needs to make it clear that none of its constituents is that important. Given its precedent punishments, anything short of suspending PSU football is another weak attempt to sweep this uncomfortable problem under the rug.
 
#5,122
#5,122
knucklehead_vol said:
Yea, the NCAA is so fair.
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Good job. Glad to see you can pick out one word.

It's out of their jurisidiction at this point...and - emotions/outrages aside - until/unless something under their own actually opens up letting them in, they can't/won't go all rogue, black-hat wearing sheriff here
 
#5,124
#5,124
TrueOrange said:
Good job. Glad to see you can pick out one word.

It's out of their jurisidiction at this point...and - emotions/outrages aside - until/unless something under their own actually opens up letting them in, they can't/won't go all rogue, black-hat wearing sheriff here
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So you want to start being a smart ass? **** you.

Penn State cannot fix itself until something happens to the program that enabled this.
 
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