Peyton manning= best qb ever

[BenGrimm]

One? Wow that's pretty ridiculous. The fact that Marino did what he did just became more impressive. IMO

Have to agree with that. I was looking through the single season passing yard leaders the other day. 5000 yards has only been done 7 times. 6 of those times have been since 2008 (3 in 2011 alone). Then there is Marino's 1984 season. That's damn impressive when you think about the era in which he played.

Even looking further down the list 16 of the top 20 have all been since 2001. Marino and Dan Fouts are both in there two times each 84 & 86 and 80 & 81 respectively).

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

I don't know the answer to this question, but it would be interesting to contrast the relationship which Shula had with the front office during his career at Baltimore and his early years in Miami vs. that which existed during the Marino era. He certainly had more balanced teams during the 1960s and early '70s, but, as you observed, the Dolphins did very little to give Marino the supporting cast necessary to truly compete for championships. (For the record, I looked it up and Marino played with only one 1,000-yard rusher in his career, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, who ran for 1,116 yards as a rookie in 1996.) For Dolphins aficionados out there, did Shula not have final player control decisions then, in terms of the draft, or did he make a conscious decision to try and ride his thoroughbred quarterback to another Super Bowl?

Marino has been lost in this debate.

I would probably rank it

1. Manning
2. Marino (but really close)

But the above is pretty damn impressive.

It is also indicative of just how important an SB ring is in this debate. If Marino has just one, there is no way the Manning / Brady debate isn't a three-way discussion.

Here's a shout-out to Fran Tarkenton as well - probably 2nd most deserving QB without a ring.

 

[BadJerry20]

Have to agree with that. I was looking through the single season passing yard leaders the other day. 5000 yards has only been done 7 times. 6 of those times have been since 2008 (3 in 2011 alone). Then there is Marino's 1984 season. That's damn impressive when you think about the era in which he played.

Even looking further down the list 16 of the top 20 have all been since 2001. Marino and Dan Fouts are both in there two times each 84 & 86 and 80 & 81 respectively).

Thats I always wonder what Marino would have done in today's game. His numbers would have been crazy. For me the top 4 QBs are Montana, Manning, Marino and Brady switch them around however you want, but you can make cases for all 4. Dan tends to get lost a lot in these discussions too.

 

[KBVol]

Marino has been lost in this debate.

I would probably rank it

1. Manning
2. Marino (but really close)

But the above is pretty damn impressive.

It is also indicative of just how important an SB ring is in this debate. If Marino has just one, there is no way the Manning / Brady debate isn't a three-way discussion.

Here's a shout-out to Fran Tarkenton as well - probably 2nd most deserving QB without a ring.

Throw in Jim Kelly while you're at it. Took Buffalo to 4 straight SuperBowls..... doubt that ever happens again.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

OK, let's pose this hypothetical question. You are an NFL head coach. You have just been locked in the "war room" by the team owner and general manager, and you have been given this directive: "We will leave no stone unturned to give you the surrounding talent necessary to win Super Bowl championships. Your task is to pick our franchise quarterback from the ranks of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana and Tom Brady. For the purposes of this assignment, preexisting inequities in supporting cast (e.g. run game, defense and coaching staff), championships and win-loss records have been eliminated. You must base your decision exclusively on innate physical and cognitive ability, leadership skills and your film analysis of their individual performance at the quarterback position. What is your draft order and why?"

I would pick Peyton 1st (based largely on his cerebral mastery of the position and ability to elevate the play of his teammates), Marino 2nd (extraordinary natural talent), Montana 3rd and Brady 4th.

 

[Wylo]

OK, let's pose this hypothetical question. You are an NFL head coach. You have just been locked in the "war room" by the team owner and general manager, and you have been given this directive: "We will leave no stone unturned to give you the surrounding talent necessary to win Super Bowl championships. Your task is to pick our franchise quarterback from the ranks of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana and Tom Brady. For the purposes of this assignment, preexisting inequities in supporting cast (e.g. run game, defense and coaching staff), championships and win-loss records have been eliminated. You must base your decision exclusively on innate physical and cognitive ability, leadership skills and your film analysis of their individual performance at the quarterback position. What is your draft order and why?"

I would pick Peyton 1st (based largely on his cerebral mastery of the position and ability to elevate the play of his teammates), Marino 2nd (extraordinary natural talent), Montana 3rd and Brady 4th.

Your reasoning makes it easy to disagree with you. If everything else was equal I'd easily pick:

Montana
Brady
Manning
Elway
Marino

Manning's brilliance is his knowledge and work ethic. If you make the surrounding cast equal, I'd take the pure winners first. Montana and Brady are ahead.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

How utterly predictable that you would conveniently ignore the precondition: "For the purposes of this assignment, preexisting inequities in supporting cast (e.g. run game, defense and coaching staff), championships and win-loss records have been eliminated. You must base your decision exclusively on innate physical and cognitive ability, leadership skills and your film analysis of their individual performance at the quarterback position."

As we have gone round and round in this debate, at least part of the success enjoyed by Montana and Brady is attributable to a superior defensive supporting cast that they enjoyed, compared to the circumstances under which Peyton and Marino played.

 

[KBVol]

Your reasoning makes it easy to disagree with you. If everything else was equal I'd easily pick:

Montana
Brady
Manning
Elway
Marino

Manning's brilliance is his knowledge and work ethic. If you make the surrounding cast equal, I'd take the pure winners first. Montana and Brady are ahead.

So you go with the SuperBowl rings trumps everything else theory. Different schools of thought. Would've thought you'd have put Elway ahead of Manning to be consistent.

Where's Favre? He has a Super Bowl win in 2 appearances and holds the record for most wins as an NFL starter..... Marino has neither.

 

[BadJerry20]

OK, let's pose this hypothetical question. You are an NFL head coach. You have just been locked in the "war room" by the team owner and general manager, and you have been given this directive: "We will leave no stone unturned to give you the surrounding talent necessary to win Super Bowl championships. Your task is to pick our franchise quarterback from the ranks of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana and Tom Brady. For the purposes of this assignment, preexisting inequities in supporting cast (e.g. run game, defense and coaching staff), championships and win-loss records have been eliminated. You must base your decision exclusively on innate physical and cognitive ability, leadership skills and your film analysis of their individual performance at the quarterback position. What is your draft order and why?"

I would pick Peyton 1st (based largely on his cerebral mastery of the position and ability to elevate the play of his teammates), Marino 2nd (extraordinary natural talent), Montana 3rd and Brady 4th.

Todd Marinovich
Ryan Leaf
Jeff George
Lol

1.) Marino best pure passer ever, give him a team he probably has 5 super bowl wins
2.) Montana I'm assuming I've seen game film dude don't crack under pressure
3.) Manning smartest QB ever needs freedom if he is with a Hoody type coach it might be a serious clash
3.) Brady might be even greater with better offensive weapons
5.) Randall Cunningham crazy wheels and crazy arm strength, the Ultimate Weapon (a few will get that reference)

 

[BadJerry20]

Possible guys that I never saw play so I reserve judgement. Tarkenton, Unitas, Bradshaw, Namath etc.

 

[KBVol]

Todd Marinovich
Ryan Leaf
Jeff George
Lol

1.) Marino best pure passer ever, give him a team he probably has 5 super bowl wins
2.) Montana I'm assuming I've seen game film dude don't crack under pressure
3.) Manning smartest QB ever needs freedom if he is with a Hoody type coach it might be a serious clash
3.) Brady might be even greater with better offensive weapons
5.) Randall Cunningham crazy wheels and crazy arm strength, the Ultimate Weapon (a few will get that reference)

So the only guy you make a negative comment about on your list is Peyton? Also, what's your point with Marinovich, Leaf and George? All 3 were massive busts.

 

[BadJerry20]

So the only guy you make a negative comment about on your list is Peyton? Also, what's your point with Marinovich, Leaf and George? All 3 were massive busts.

Not sure its a negative comment, you might just be overly defensive. I simply think Manning would be better off without a controlling coach. Since I'm assuming a great controlling coach is leading this hypothetical team, it might be a problem.

It was a joke, if you are looking at guys combine style you can often get fooled. Pretty simple.

Edit: also most people are pro Manning so I figured he deserved an explanation before people freaked. I guess that backfired lol

 

[KBVol]

Possible guys that I never saw play so I reserve judgement. Tarkenton, Unitas, Bradshaw, Namath etc.

There are many more possible guys.... Steve Young was incredible, Joe Thiesman at times was outstanding, Dan Fouts, Phil Sims, Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach, Warren Moon.....

 

[BadJerry20]

There are many more possible guys.... Steve Young was incredible, Joe Thiesman at times was outstanding, Dan Fouts, Phil Sims, Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach, Warren Moon.....

I was razor close to putting Young just based on what all he could do. But Cunningham was a freak. Moon and Fouts would be high as would Elway and Favre. Never was much of a Kelly, Thiesman or Sims fan. Never saw Staubach play so I can't really comment.

 

[KBVol]

Not sure its a negative comment, you might just be overly defensive. I simply think Manning would be better off without a controlling coach. Since I'm assuming a great controlling coach is leading this hypothetical team, it might be a problem.

It was a joke, if you are looking at guys combine style you can often get fooled. Pretty simple.

Not defensive. Just noticed you threw in a negative comment about Manning's potential inability to play for a controlling coach while the other guys you mentioned didn't get the same type speculation. Just an observation.

 

[BadJerry20]

Not defensive. Just noticed you threw in a negative comment about Manning's potential inability to play for a controlling coach while the other guys you mentioned didn't get the same type speculation. Just an observation.

Read my edit to that post.

Again it wasn't a negative comment, just a thought.

 

[KBVol]

I was razor close to putting Young just based on what all he could do. But Cunningham was a freak. Moon and Fouts would be high as would Elway and Favre. Never was much of a Kelly, Thiesman or Sims fan. Never saw Staubach play so I can't really comment.

Young was better than the other guys listed IMO. Cunningham was a freak but no more so than Young. I wasn't a big fan of Kelly Thiesman or Simms either but they were outstanding. I typically found myself pulling against them which made me appreciate just how good they were.

 

[BadJerry20]

Young was better than the other guys listed IMO. Cunningham was a freak but no more so than Young. I wasn't a big fan of Kelly Thiesman or Simms either but they were outstanding. I typically found myself pulling against them which made me appreciate just how good they were.

Better than what other guys listed?

Cunningham was faster, more agile and could throw the ball 80 yards in the air. He may have the most physically gifted QB ever. I say that and Young is my favorite QB ever. I meant fan of theirs as in they were 2nd tier talent to me.

 

[Wylo]

So you go with the SuperBowl rings trumps everything else theory. Different schools of thought. Would've thought you'd have put Elway ahead of Manning to be consistent.

Where's Favre? He has a Super Bowl win in 2 appearances and holds the record for most wins as an NFL starter..... Marino has neither.

You read it wrong. I said "winners", not rings. Montana could almost always deliver in the clutch. Brady is similar. That is why Manning is 3rd on my list.

Brady has fallen off that a little, but i still have him slightly ahead in 2nd.

 

[KBVol]

Better than what other guys listed?

Cunningham was faster, more agile and could throw the ball 80 yards in the air. He may have the most physically gifted QB ever. I say that and Young is my favorite QB ever. I meant fan of theirs as in they were 2nd tier talent to me.

I'd take Young 99 out of 100 times over Cunningham. No slight to Randall, just think Young was that good. Both athletically and as a pure QB.

Btw, I doubt Cunningham was faster. My guess is both guys were in the 4.5 range. Cunningham was laser timed at 4.6 in college, although he claimed a 4.29 in high school. Saw various times on Young, ranging between 4.35 and 4.5. I saw both guys play dozens of times.... both were incredibly fast and athletic, I'll maybe give you that Cunningham was more agile.... but Young was a better QB.

 

[KBVol]

You read it wrong. I said "winners", not rings. Montana could almost always deliver in the clutch. Brady is similar. That is why Manning is 3rd on my list.

Brady has fallen off that a little, but i still have him slightly ahead in 2nd.

You gotta define winners then. Manning has the 2nd highest regular season win total all time behind Favre and ahead of Elway and Brady. He also has the most 4th qtr comebacks in NFL history which says he's more clutch. So are you just talking playoffs and SuperBowl wins?

 

[BadJerry20]

I'd take Young 99 out of 100 times over Cunningham. No slight to Randall, just think Young was that good. Both athletically and as a pure QB.

Btw, I doubt Cunningham was faster. My guess is both guys were in the 4.5 range. Cunningham was laser timed at 4.6 in college, although he claimed a 4.29 in high school. Saw various times on Young, ranging between 4.35 and 4.5. I saw both guys play dozens of times.... both were incredibly fast and athletic, I'll maybe give you that Cunningham was more agile.... but Young was a better QB.

I'm not saying Randall was better, I said most physically gifted. 40 yard dash and game speed are 2 different things, (ask jerry rice) Randall looked like his game speed was faster than Young's. If I've watched their careers I take Young no question. But if I'm watching game film and watching them run and throw, as the question asked, Randall is probably gonna wow me more. If he steps up and throws it from the goal line to the other 20, eyes are going to light up.

 

[Wylo]

You gotta define winners then. Manning has the 2nd highest regular season win total all time behind Favre and ahead of Elway and Brady. He also has the most 4th qtr comebacks in NFL history which says he's more clutch. So are you just talking playoffs and SuperBowl wins?

Just answer this:

Were you shocked last year when Manning threw the pick in OT?

 

[BadJerry20]

You gotta define winners then. Manning has the 2nd highest regular season win total all time behind Favre and ahead of Elway and Brady. He also has the most 4th qtr comebacks in NFL history which says he's more clutch. So are you just talking playoffs and SuperBowl wins?

4th quarter comebacks are an overrated stat. Guys get penalized for not being behind. Plus we don't know how many times the guy failed in those situations. If there was a % of success that would be far more telling.

 

[Hacksaw]

4th quarter comebacks are an overrated stat. Guys get penalized for not being behind. Plus we don't know how many times the guy failed in those situations. If there was a % of success that would be far more telling.

lol

Dismiss all of the facts and stats that make Peyton look good and inflate all of the achievements of the QBs who played on the best teams.

Just admit you're really a Gator fan already. You sound just like one.