Police Brutality - Where Is The Outrage?

#28
#28
utvolpj said:
I believe too many are bullies and believe themselves above us regular citizens. Also their role as revenue collectors has been expanded way too much

There was an article (maybe on here) about a traffic stop that went bad that also listed the number of violent crime cases that had been closed/solved in that same town. They were all in the 20-30% range yet we still have officers out busting people for a taillight.
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The father of my son in law, is a trooper for Missouri. He works the drug task force and is a "trainer" when a new hire comes in from the academy. He is pessimistic about the types of people joining the team. He also said fortunately many of those wash out eventually but not all.
 
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#30
#30
McDad said:
The father of my son in law, is a trooper for Missouri. He works the drug task force and is a "trainer" when a new hire comes in from the academy. He is pessimistic about the types of people joining the team. He also said fortunately many of those wash out eventually but not all.
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I've said it plenty of times, the starting salary of police officers does not attract quality applicants. Who wants to risk their life every day and deal with meth heads for $15/hr?
 
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#31
#31
MG1968 said:
I never said anything of the sort. Your post implied that “a few bad apples” in the police was a knuckledragger’s excuse for this behavior. I read into it that you think that all cops are like this.
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Your reading comprehension is lacking. The very comment "a few bad apples" clearly shows that he's not talking about all, but a few.
 
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#32
#32
K-town Vol Fan said:
I've said it plenty of times, the starting salary of police officers does not attract quality applicants. Who wants to risk their life every day and deal with meth heads for $15/hr?
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I don't know if that's where LEOs generally start for salary. But I agree with your premise. The profession seems to attract a lot of former military. I don't know if that is such a good thing either.
 
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#33
#33
You know, I've noticed a very unsurprising trend here.

The ACAB/F12 folks don't give 2 squats about Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and this woman, to just name a few. I wonder why.

Some of the "Floyd shouldn't have been resisting" folks aren't saying the same about this woman. I wonder why.

The media has done a spectacular job at balkanizing us, I'll give them that.
 
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#34
#34
McDad said:
I don't know if that's where LEOs generally start for salary. But I agree with your premise. The profession seems to attract a lot of former military. I don't know if that is such a good thing either.
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How many of these people that are killing people are former military?
 
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#35
#35
agent|orange said:
You know, I've noticed a very unsurprising trend here.

The ACAB/F12 folks don't give 2 squats about Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and this woman, to just name a few. I wonder why.

Some of the "Floyd shouldn't have been resisting" folks aren't saying the same about this woman. I wonder why.

The media has done a spectacular job at balkanizing us, I'll give them that.
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This is the very point I've observed, also. People are rallying behind their "teams". I'm on the pro-cop/Blue Live Matter team, so anything cops do is OK. Or, I'm on the BLM/ACAB side, so all of these killing of blacks by cops is wrong, but we will ignore black on black crime and cops killing white folks.

I'm just standing here in the middle saying that we do have a policing problem that is affecting ALL of us and we also need to remember that the cure is sometimes in the prevention, meaning people need to limit their number of interactions with cops by not engaging in a lot of these criminal acts... even though I agree that a majority of these laws are bogus as hell.

The overall theme is we have bad cops enforcing bad laws.
 
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#36
#36
utvolpj said:
I believe too many are bullies and believe themselves above us regular citizens. Also their role as revenue collectors has been expanded way too much

There was an article (maybe on here) about a traffic stop that went bad that also listed the number of violent crime cases that had been closed/solved in that same town. They were all in the 20-30% range yet we still have officers out busting people for a taillight.
Click to expand...
These two things aren't mutually exclusive. There are several violent crimes solved with simple traffic stops.
And there are other factors depending on what is considered a "violent crime" For example domestic assault is a violent crime that police usually can arrest the suspect(s) roughly 85-90% of the time, however the cases are never "solved" or "closed to court" because the other party drops the case, not enough evidence or the D.A. doesn't want to deal with it, etc. Same for regular assault.

Other crimes like vehicle burglary or thefts are almost impossible to solve without evidence, and requires officers to conduct regular patrols of high-crime areas to attempt to dissuade the crime as best as possible
 
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#37
#37
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is the very point I've observed, also. People are rallying behind their "teams". I'm on the pro-cop/Blue Live Matter team, so anything cops do is OK. Or, I'm on the BLM/ACAB side, so all of these killing of blacks by cops is wrong, but we will ignore black on black crime and cops killing white folks.

I'm just standing here in the middle saying that we do have a policing problem that is affecting ALL of us and we also need to remember that the cure is sometimes in the prevention, meaning people need to limit their number of interactions with cops by not engaging in a lot of these criminal acts... even though I agree that a majority of these laws are bogus as hell.

The overall theme is we have bad cops enforcing bad laws.
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I don't think shoplifting in this case is a "bad law", it's simply the specific officers were stupid and/or ill-trained in how they handled this call
 
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#38
#38
McDad said:
The father of my son in law, is a trooper for Missouri. He works the drug task force and is a "trainer" when a new hire comes in from the academy. He is pessimistic about the types of people joining the team. He also said fortunately many of those wash out eventually but not all.
Click to expand...

My SIL and his father are cops (his father just retired) and neither are like the cops in the OP.
 
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#39
#39
Rickyvol77 said:
These two things aren't mutually exclusive. There are several violent crimes solved with simple traffic stops.
And there are other factors depending on what is considered a "violent crime" For example domestic assault is a violent crime that police usually can arrest the suspect(s) roughly 85-90% of the time, however the cases are never "solved" or "closed to court" because the other party drops the case, not enough evidence or the D.A. doesn't want to deal with it, etc. Same for regular assault.

Other crimes like vehicle burglary or thefts are almost impossible to solve without evidence, and requires officers to conduct regular patrols of high-crime areas to attempt to dissuade the crime as best as possible
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These were listed out as % of rapes, murders, armed robbery, etc. The point is revenue collection often takes precedence over crime solving
 
#40
#40
McDad said:
I don't know if that's where LEOs generally start for salary. But I agree with your premise. The profession seems to attract a lot of former military. I don't know if that is such a good thing either.
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From what I've been told the problem starts at the mayors and city council's office with them pushing on the chief for whatever then as the saying goes it rolls down hill.
 
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#41
#41
utvolpj said:
These were listed out as % of rapes, murders, armed robbery, etc. The point is revenue collection often takes precedence over crime solving
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Not true, you need to look at WHY rapes, murders and such are not closed out. It has to do with things like witnesses not wanting to cooperate, no physical evidence, no eyewitnesses, the communities protecting gang bangers out of fear or money, defense attorneys attempting to get every case dismissed due to "mental illness or racism", D.A's making cases go away for political reasons, to get a plea deal for something else, etc. No federal money to assist with evidence processing.

It's very simplistic to say "police are just writing speeding tickets" and not caring about murders, etc.
 
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#43
#43
Rickyvol77 said:
Not true, you need to look at WHY rapes, murders and such are not closed out. It has to do with things like witnesses not wanting to cooperate, no physical evidence, no eyewitnesses, the communities protecting gang bangers out of fear or money, defense attorneys attempting to get every case dismissed due to "mental illness or racism", D.A's making cases go away for political reasons, to get a plea deal for something else, etc. No federal money to assist with evidence processing.

It's very simplistic to say "police are just writing speeding tickets" and not caring about murders, etc.
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It's not simplistic at all if you view the role of the police to solve crimes rather than to make up for a county budget shortfall.
 
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#44
#44
utvolpj said:
It's not simplistic at all if you view the role of the police to solve crimes rather than to make up for a county budget shortfall.
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And again several major crimes are solved with "minor" traffic stops, take those away and those numbers go way down
 
#45
#45
Rickyvol77 said:
And again several major crimes are solved with "minor" traffic stops, take those away and those numbers go way down
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So you play the odds that a violent criminal has a headlight out instead of actually investigating?

Can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket right?
 
#49
#49
Problems that need to be addressed:

* Poor training regimen for cops or 911 should not dispatch police to respond to mental health crises.

* Bad laws resulting in a huge uptick in police/citizen encounters

* Qualified Immunity allowing bad police to be bad and not be held accountable. It's near impossible to hold the individual officer accountable, but when fault is found... the taxpayers pay for it.

* District DAs that rely on local police for conviction rates should not decide when/if to prosecute.


Police should also not be modern-day Cossacks or a Gendarmerie. Police now have gotten too militarized, but without a military command structure, accountability or even a DoD-level RoE. It's a recipe for disaster. I have a close friend that is a cop, he's a good guy, but he is 100% convinced that every day on the job "he is going to war". He never served and he's a cop in a small(ish) town in Tennessee that has very low crime rates. It's unreal that he has that mentality.
 
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