Police Brutality - Where Is The Outrage?

#52
#52
utvolpj said:
So you play the odds that a violent criminal has a headlight out instead of actually investigating?

Can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket right?
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Again you have no clue of what you speak of....its not a "lottery"..

There are several ways I have caught violent or serious felons on mere traffic stops. Some I 100% knew what they were doing and that they had evidence, some I guessed, and some were happenstance.

Sometimes, it is a luck of the draw thing, but officers can usually tell right away when someone is a normal person who is nervous because they got pulled over for speeding and someone is hiding criminal actions. If I have 20 business burglaries and I know the suspect vehicle or the locations or the M.O. of the criminals, and I spotted a matching vehicle fitting all three in that location, and I pull them over for running a stop sign, but my investigation leads me to multiple felony arrests, that's good police work...Otherwise there would have been no other evidence or way to catch them unless i was lucky enough to run up on them in the act.

Sometimes we KNOW who they were or who they were hanging with (especially with gangs), and they are under surveillance, are you saying these officers shouldn't be allowed to precipitate a traffic stop to assist with this?

You do realize that detectives (even homicide detectives), the DEA, the FBI, etc. often capture their suspects with traffic stops?
 
#53
#53
agent|orange said:
Problems that need to be addressed:

* Poor training regimen for cops or 911 should not dispatch police to respond to mental health crises.
Poor training does happen in some places, but it not the norm...and police HAVE to go to "mental Health crises" because EMTs, social workers, etc. will not go until the scene is considered safe, and so much violence occurs on these calls, police have to be there to assist
* Bad laws resulting in a huge uptick in police/citizen encounters
There is not many more police/citizen encounters overall number wise the past 25 years EXCEPT for calls for service that the CITIZENS call and ask for help, which police are required to respond to
* Qualified Immunity allowing bad police to be bad and not be held accountable. It's near impossible to hold the individual officer accountable, but when fault is found... the taxpayers pay for it.
I've talked about this before, QI is not to "protect" bad police, it's to prevent a sh*tstorm of frivilous lawsuits for every simple action an officer does (or doesnt do during their duties), defense attorneys, criminals, ambulance chasers, etc. would literally file 100 lawsuits a day against officers to attempt to win $, get someone fired, drop a criminal case, etc. The sovereign citizen movement used to try this BS with house liens on officers and judges till it was made illegal

* District DAs that rely on local police for conviction rates should not decide when/if to prosecute.
DAs that care about conviction rates are the issue, not bc of police (which have nothing to do with prosecution outside of arrests), but because they will make plea deals for the "Win" and send these violent criminals out to commit the same crimes again and again.

Police should also not be modern-day Cossacks or a Gendarmerie. Police now have gotten too militarized, but without a military command structure, accountability or even a DoD-level RoE. It's a recipe for disaster. I have a close friend that is a cop, he's a good guy, but he is 100% convinced that every day on the job "he is going to war". He never served and he's a cop in a small(ish) town in Tennessee that has very low crime rates. It's unreal that he has that mentality.
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#54
#54
Rickyvol77 said:
I don't think shoplifting in this case is a "bad law", it's simply the specific officers were stupid and/or ill-trained in how they handled this call
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Shoplifting is a righteous and just crime to enforce. But there are limits. You don't go on high speed chases or WWE wrestle 73 year old women to enforce that law. Not every crime has to end in an arrest. Discreation...
 
#55
#55
Rasputin_Vol said:
Shoplifting is a righteous and just crime to enforce. But there are limits. You don't go on high speed chases or WWE wrestle 73 year old women to enforce that law. Not every crime has to end in an arrest. Discreation...
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I dont disagree with that, but you implied it was a "bad law"
 
#56
#56
Rickyvol77 said:
These two things aren't mutually exclusive. There are several violent crimes solved with simple traffic stops.
And there are other factors depending on what is considered a "violent crime" For example domestic assault is a violent crime that police usually can arrest the suspect(s) roughly 85-90% of the time, however the cases are never "solved" or "closed to court" because the other party drops the case, not enough evidence or the D.A. doesn't want to deal with it, etc. Same for regular assault.
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Mutual combatants. Doesn't necessarily have to end in a felony or misdemeanor charges. Break up the fight, separate the individuals and if needed, take one party to cool off in jail or a holding cell overnight with no charges filed against them.
 
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#58
#58
Rasputin_Vol said:
Mutual combatants. Doesn't necessarily have to end in a felony or misdemeanor charges. Break up the fight, separate the individuals and if needed, take one party to cool off in jail or a holding cell overnight with no charges filed against them.
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I agree to some extent here. But policy is often dictated by events. I'm sure there were instances where this was done, but then after a fight was broken up one of the parties returned and murdered the other resulting in some crusade by a local politician requiring a certain protocol.

Remember police and internal policy are only a portion of the problem, there's also the political aspect that dictates policy to them.
 
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#59
#59
Rickyvol77 said:
Not true, you need to look at WHY rapes, murders and such are not closed out. It has to do with things like witnesses not wanting to cooperate, no physical evidence, no eyewitnesses, the communities protecting gang bangers out of fear or money, defense attorneys attempting to get every case dismissed due to "mental illness or racism", D.A's making cases go away for political reasons, to get a plea deal for something else, etc. No federal money to assist with evidence processing.

It's very simplistic to say "police are just writing speeding tickets" and not caring about murders, etc.
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Look at it from our side of the fence. The only people we see catching hell are either regulars citizens that get caught up in minor traffic infractions or low level nonviolent criminal that may have a joint (or several joints) in an ash tray and a gun (which is protected by the 2A).
 
#60
#60

Regarding training: Average training regimen for police in the US is ~20 weeks. In most European countries it's around 1-3 years.

Regarding encounters: I absolutely agree. There *are* problems that need to be addressed... but overall there isn't a massive problem and this is currently a fashionable topic to dogpile on.

Regarding QI: QI has been cited as a reason by judges for not pursuing charges. It's intent may be what you're suggesting, but it's definitely used as a shield.

Regarding DAs: So you absolutely agree there is a direct link.
 
#62
#62
KB5252 said:
I agree to some extent here. But policy is often dictated by events. I'm sure there were instances where this was done, but then after a fight was broken up one of the parties returned and murdered the other resulting in some crusade by a local politician requiring a certain protocol.

Remember police and internal policy are only a portion of the problem, there's also the political aspect that dictates policy to them.
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True, which is why it is unfortunate that you don't hear or see any of the major spokesman for police coming out to present that side of the argument. If anything, they are far too likely to agree with enforcing all of these ridiculous laws and following these policies. For the sake of their profession and livelihood, there needs to be more cops making that argument and addressing that point to lawmakers.
 
#63
#63
Rasputin_Vol said:
Mutual combatants. Doesn't necessarily have to end in a felony or misdemeanor charges. Break up the fight, separate the individuals and if needed, take one party to cool off in jail or a holding cell overnight with no charges filed against them.
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You are required to make an arrest in domestic assault if you can determine either a primary aggressor or both did
 
#64
#64
Rasputin_Vol said:
Look at it from our side of the fence. The only people we see catching hell are either regulars citizens that get caught up in minor traffic infractions or low level nonviolent criminal that may have a joint (or several joints) in an ash tray and a gun (which is protected by the 2A).
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Stop with the simple joint BS, no one is getting put in prison or shot just because of a "simple joint", hell most officers don't even write tickets for that anymore.
 
#66
#66
hog88 said:
Which is a stupid requirement that puts the police in a bad position.
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Maybe, maybe not, it was borne because officers used to good ole boy it and do what you suggest and some people were killed after.

As with most laws passed by politicians it was due to people being stupid to begin with
 
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#67
#67
Society has it all wrong. We shouldn’t fear criminals. We should fear the criminals with the badges that are protected by a law enforcement culture that enables them.

What happened to that woman was sickening and the idiots that were cheering and laughing should be put in a locked room with the woman’s family for an hour. Nothing will happen to these criminals with badges. They may be fired from this police department, but will be welcomed to another with opened arms.

It’s a shame that even the “good” police officers will not stop the bad officers and protect the integrity of their profession.
 
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#68
#68
They found their cruelty funny and congratulated each other for their despicable behavior.

What a disgusting display of arrogance.
If the video of them celebrating was not available fir the public to see, the police department and the police union would likely have never outed these cowards.
 
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#69
#69
MOOOOONEY said:
Society has it all wrong. We shouldn’t fear criminals. We should fear the criminals with the badges that are protected by a law enforcement culture that enables them.

What happened to that woman was sickening and the idiots that were cheering and laughing should be put in a locked room with the woman’s family for an hour. Nothing will happen to these criminals with badges. They may be fired from this police department, but will be welcomed to another with opened arms.

It’s a shame that even the “good” police officers will not stop the bad officers and protect the integrity of their profession.
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so if they are fired, how is that not the "good" police officers stopping the bad ones?
 
#71
#71
MOOOOONEY said:
Society has it all wrong. We shouldn’t fear criminals. We should fear the criminals with the badges that are protected by a law enforcement culture that enables them.

What happened to that woman was sickening and the idiots that were cheering and laughing should be put in a locked room with the woman’s family for an hour. Nothing will happen to these criminals with badges. They may be fired from this police department, but will be welcomed to another with opened arms.

It’s a shame that even the “good” police officers will not stop the bad officers and protect the integrity of their profession.
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they wear that badge and they think it makes them better than us
 
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#73
#73
Rickyvol77 said:
Stop with the simple joint BS, no one is getting put in prison or shot just because of a "simple joint", hell most officers don't even write tickets for that anymore.
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Or selling a few grams of crack or meth... have your choice of drug. Either way, cops come blazing.
 
#75
#75
I would like to see these type individuals listed in a no hire federal database for any type of law enforcement. Anyone that would treat an elderly person like this imo can't change who they are.
This is a part of law enforcement that needs addressing. LEO needs to stop covering for their brothers and sisters.
 
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