Police shooting black man in the back ... again (Kenosha, WI)

[hog88]

Well, good luck with that if you end up in court and the entirety of your defense is "they walked at me", with no other evidence of provocation; I'll be interested to see how that works out.

That is why it is imperative that only 1 story can be told.

 

[MontyPython]

How is this in anyway related to what we are discussing?

Dude, your memory is no bueno.

 

[84Volfan]

Well, good luck with that if you end up in court and the entirety of your defense is "they walked at me", with no other evidence of provocation; I'll be interested to see how that works out.

First act of aggression is tresspassing cant kill
Second act is not following commands cant kill
Third act is advancing after given commands can kill

After performing the third act in this situation you are legally allowed to defend one's self up to lethal force. I don't understand why you're choosing this hill to die upon. If a woman is out walking on property and sees a trespasser. She has a gun asks tresspasser what he is doing and then for tresspasser to leave but he doesn't comply. She then says She is calling the police but he walks towards her. She then points gun and commands him to stop, but he continues advancing....do you not consider that self defense if she shoots and kills him?

 

[hog88]

Dude, your memory is no bueno.

Please explain how someone chasing down a car thief in public is in anyway related to a person defending their property. I'll wait.

 

[84Volfan]

Incorrect. If you are between the trespasser and your property it's reasonable to feel in danger.

I don't think that's the analogy he was using here.

If you come home and someone is already in your house, or setting fire to your house or stealing a vehicle you can't legally shoot them if you know none of you or your family is in danger.

 

[NEO]

So I just went to check some policies and 3 out of 4 were not covered and 1 was listed as additional coverage. So it's not standard. Also asked my wife who is in brokerage and she pulled several up and she has the same thing. Idk. I've always known it to not be covered.

You stated your wife is in brokerage which means surplus lines.

Surplus lines doesnt have to follow state standard iso forms. They can modify policies heavily and some such as Lloyd's syndicate and beazley will write on their own paper.

Standard ISO is also per state, not national, and only applies to standard admitted lines.

Closest surplus lines carrier to standard would be Scottsdale or Markel.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Heh. Mmmmmmkkkkkay.

Police tried to keep these idiots from driving downtown to antagonize the protesters, but they managed to do it anyway.

Then they shot the protesters with paint ball guns and sprayed them with mace or tear gas. See the video on the link below.

Trump... calls them "PATRIOTS".

SMH.

The Flag-Covered Assault Truck is ‘Trump 2020’ Ad

so I’m your world the police,who the protesters are trying to eliminate should get to determine who gets to exercise their 1A rights?

And who is this “They”. The facts don’t match your narrative. Kyle has an AR given to him by the owner of the business he was protecting. The same guy Kyle works for. He’s on video supporting the protesters saying he’s only there to prevent damage to the auto shop. He’s also on video offering aid to an injured protester before the mob turned on him.

Living in your world would truly suck

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

You don't have the right to protect your property with deadly force, unless doing so meets the requirements for the use of deadly force under Tennessee's self-defense laws.

I'm not asking for the right or permission. I guarandamntee you that there isn't a judge or jury in Upper East TN going to convict me of any crime whatsoever if I put a round or 2 in someone's ass that is destroying my property or threatening me and my family while on my property.

 

[BeardedVol]

First act of aggression is tresspassing cant kill
Second act is not following commands cant kill
Third act is advancing after given commands can kill

After performing the third act in this situation you are legally allowed to defend one's self up to lethal force. I don't understand why you're choosing this hill to die upon. If a woman is out walking on property and sees a trespasser. She has a gun asks tresspasser what he is doing and then for tresspasser to leave but he doesn't comply. She then says he is calling the police but he walks towards her. She then points gun and commands him to stop, but he continues advancing....do you not consider that self defense if she shoots and kills him?

In an affirmative 'self-defense' defense, you are still going to have to produce reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury; walking towards you alone, with no weapon, no threatening gesture or words, is not going to pass muster for justifiable use of deadly force.

If I'm walking across my 55 acres near Mountain City TN, and find someone on the property, and yell at them to get off my land, and they start walking towards me, with no verbal/visual threat of violence or visible weapons, and I draw my handgun and shoot them, I'm going to prison.

 

[hog88]

In an affirmative 'self-defense' defense, you are still going to have to produce reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury; walking towards you alone, with no weapon, no threatening gesture or words, is not going to pass muster for justifiable use of deadly force.

If I'm walking across my 55 acres near Mountain City TN, and find someone on the property, and yell at them to get off my land, and they start walking towards me, with no verbal/visual threat of violence or visible weapons, and I draw my handgun and shoot them, I'm going to prison.

Nope.

Unless you are stupid of course.

 

[davethevol]

In an affirmative 'self-defense' defense, you are still going to have to produce reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury; walking towards you alone, with no weapon, no threatening gesture or words, is not going to pass muster for justifiable use of deadly force.

If I'm walking across my 55 acres near Mountain City TN, and find someone on the property, and yell at them to get off my land, and they start walking towards me, with no verbal/visual threat of violence or visible weapons, and I draw my handgun and shoot them, I'm going to prison.

Serious question: are you retarded? Everyone in this thread has clearly laid out the circumstances in which someone can legally shoot someone advancing towards them and you keep ignoring the lawful criteria that has been presented multiple times. Then you come back with your scenario that would be illegal and everyone has said wouldn’t meet the criteria.

 

[BeardedVol]

I'm not asking for the right or permission. I guarandamntee you that there isn't a judge or jury in Upper East TN going to convict me of any crime whatsoever if I put a round or 2 in someone's ass that is destroying my property or threatening me and my family while on my property.

You are mixing scenarios, threatening you or your family with harm while on your property, would most likely pass muster for the use of deadly force. Taking a baseball bat to your bass boat, would not as long as they didn't try to turn the bat on you or your family.

See how that works? Property alone in danger = no deadly force, People in danger = deadly force.

 

[Godfatha]

First act of aggression is tresspassing cant kill
Second act is not following commands cant kill
Third act is advancing after given commands can kill

After performing the third act in this situation you are legally allowed to defend one's self up to lethal force. I don't understand why you're choosing this hill to die upon. If a woman is out walking on property and sees a trespasser. She has a gun asks tresspasser what he is doing and then for tresspasser to leave but he doesn't comply. She then says She is calling the police but he walks towards her. She then points gun and commands him to stop, but he continues advancing....do you not consider that self defense if she shoots and kills him?

No, you're supposed to lay down and taking your beating or worse.

 

[BeardedVol]

Serious question: are you retarded? Everyone in this thread has clearly laid out the circumstances in which someone can legally shoot someone advancing towards them and you keep ignoring the lawful criteria that has been presented multiple times. Then you come back with your scenario that would be illegal and everyone has said wouldn’t meet the criteria.

I'm sorry that public education has failed you, and that you've found yourself an adult without proper reading comprehension skills. I can suggest some online education programs that while geared towards children, would probably be of a level you are capable of understanding; just let me know I'll post some links.

 

[MontyPython]

Please explain how someone chasing down a car thief in public is in anyway related to a person defending their property. I'll wait.

You're just arguing for the sake of argument now, Hog. Give it up.

 

[84Volfan]

In an affirmative 'self-defense' defense, you are still going to have to produce reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury; walking towards you alone, with no weapon, no threatening gesture or words, is not going to pass muster for justifiable use of deadly force.

If I'm walking across my 55 acres near Mountain City TN, and find someone on the property, and yell at them to get off my land, and they start walking towards me, with no verbal/visual threat of violence or visible weapons, and I draw my handgun and shoot them, I'm going to prison.

That is not the argument sir....if you confront someone then they advance and you give commands with a weapon trained on them and they continue to advance you have the right to use lethal force.

I am not talking about 50 or 100 yards away either before you try to add distance into your arguement. We are talking in a face to face conversation

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

You are mixing scenarios, threatening you or your family with harm while on your property, would most likely pass muster for the use of deadly force. Taking a baseball bat to your bass boat, would not as long as they didn't try to turn the bat on you or your family.

See how that works? Property alone in danger = no deadly force, People in danger = deadly force.

I don't own a bass boat, fishing ain't my bag, but come to my place and start hitting my vehicles, Harley or golf carts and see if your ass doesn't get shot in the process ! Again I guarantee you there isn't a jury in this or the surrounding 12 counties going to convict a man protecting his property, that BS just doesn't fly around here !

 

[NorthDallas40]

That is not the argument sir....if you confront someone then they advance and you give commands with a weapon trained on them and they continue to advance you have the right to use lethal force.

I am not talking about 50 or 100 yards away either before you try to add distance into your arguement. We are talking in a face to face conversation

Thus far the only points he’s been able to defend are the irrelevant ones he’s pulled out of thin air... or someplace else.

 

[NEO]

In hurricane prone areas don't you have to have flood and wind insurance separate from your regular homeowners?

Flood is never covered under a home owners policy hog. Its written on insurance paper and backed by FEMA.

If you live near the lake I would look into it just in case the dams ever break. Just to be safe.

Home owners named perils is wharves. First thing most young agents learn. W stands for wind.

Wind from a hurricane should be covered but not flooding unfortunately, see Katrina and State Farm, may claim reps will try to throw wind damage onto flood and deny coverage. This happens when the house has both flood damage and wind damage.


There are two really good auto and home agents in your area, Jay Roth and Dave Vandenburgh. If you need quotes give them a call.

 

[BeardedVol]

That is not the argument sir....if you confront someone then they advance and you give commands with a weapon trained on them and they continue to advance you have the right to use lethal force.

I am not talking about 50 or 100 yards away either before you try to add distance into your arguement. We are talking in a face to face conversation

You are still going to have to justify 'reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury', if "walked towards me" is the only thing you show up to court with to support a self-defense argument, well, good luck.

 

[hog88]

You're just arguing for the sake of argument now, Hog. Give it up.

No, I'm genuinely interested in how the two situations are similar. How is, I find my stolen car driving down the street chase them down and initiate a conflict resulting in someone getting shot remotely the same as me on my property defending my property?

 

[hog88]

Flood is never covered under a home owners policy hog. Its written on insurance paper and backed by FEMA.

If you live near the lake I would look into it just in case the dams ever break. Just to be safe.

Home owners named perils is wharves. First thing most young agents learn. W stands for wind.

There are two really good auto and home agents in your area, Jay Roth and Dave Vandenburgh. If you need quotes give them a call.

I had flood insurance for a few years after the story of the Wolf Creek dam came out, dropped it when they said it was fixed.

 

[hog88]

You are still going to have to justify 'reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury', if "walked towards me" is the only thing you show up to court with to support a self-defense argument, well, good luck.

Covered already.

Nope.

Unless you are stupid of course.

 

[BeardedVol]

I don't own a bass boat, fishing ain't my bag, but come to my place and start hitting my vehicles, Harley or golf carts and see if your ass doesn't get shot in the process ! Again I guarantee you there isn't a jury in this or the surrounding 12 counties going to convict a man protecting his property, that BS just doesn't fly around here !

Have you every been on a jury, federal or state? A jury is given explicit instructions on what they can and can't consider when delivering a verdict on the charges. This idea that you are going to be sitting there with a bunch of yokels who think just like you and can just use 'how they feel' about the scenario, as the basis for their verdict, is just simply not accurate.

 

[84Volfan]

You are still going to have to justify 'reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury', if "walked towards me" is the only thing you show up to court with to support a self-defense argument, well, good luck.

Once again for the last time....if you tell someone at gunpoint not to advance and they advance anyways when they are already trespassing the advancement is considered aggression.