Poll: Do you support "Packing the SCOTUS" once ACB is confirmed?

Poll: Do you support "Packing the SCOTUS" once ACB is confirmed?


  • Total voters
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Absurd statement. A photo's worth a thousand words right?

Take 2A: IMO, the Framers didn't have AR15s in mind when granting the right to bear arms. Again, my opinion's based on the Constitution and how it's written. "Bearing arms" like a musket is a far cry from an AR-15 with a 100-round magazine and a bump stock. Hell, owning a nuclear bomb is my God given right per the Constitution if one fails to use common sense.

The FF never once thought a government would have anything like a CWIS on ships or flying armed drones that could destroy anything under it either , if they had even an thought some government would be that powerful they would have given us unlimited powers throughout the constitution to be able to overthrow it if needed . The 2a is there in part to be able to take back what is yours from a tyrannical government , logic dictates that the FF would not put the citizens at a disadvantage by outlawing firearms that could give its citizens equal footing with the government .
 
An FDR plan that was ridiculed and shut down by both sides and the general public.

In a 1987 speech, Biden praised Democrats for standing up to Roosevelt and approvingly quoted the report issued by the Democratic-controlled Judiciary Committee, which called FDR’s proposal “an invasion of judicial powers . . . which should be so emphatically rejected that its parallel will never again be presented to the free representatives of a free people in America.”
 
Go back and read your post. You said "AR15s and their derivatives are in the military." There are no AR15s or AR15 derivatives in the military.

Wrong as usual.

The Pentagon Has Slowly Fallen In Love With H&K's Take On The AR-15

The HK416 and its derivatives are quickly becoming the combat rifle that all others are judged by—and the Pentagon is having a hard time denying that fact.

FEBRUARY 24, 2017

Operationally, its career in the US Military started out among the highest rungs of the special operations community, and was made famous by SEAL Team Six as the assault rifle that was used on the raid that killed terror mastermind Osama Bin Laden. Now, a half-decade later, the Army and the Marine Corps have selected versions of the rifle, but for wildly different uses. The Marines in particular have anted up with orders for thousands of units, and these weapons also represent an evolutionary change in tactics for the UMSC, one spurred by hard lessons learned over the past 15 years of perpetual warfare in the Middle East.

German small arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch is world renowned for making some of the finest, most durable firearms on the planet, and they aren’t afraid to go their own way when it comes to design. From being the first adopter of polymer for combat firearms to their super-accurate “lemon squeezer” P7 series of handguns to firearms designed to be used by combat divers underwater—as well as legendary and widely used weapons like the MP5 submachine, PSG sniper rifle, USP handgun, to the G3 battle rifle. The company's achievements go on and on. But outside the special operations community, where budgets aren’t so generous or flexible and procurement is a precarious bureaucratic maze, H&K has struggled to achieve big orders from the Pentagon. Price has a lot to do with it. The company’s firearms aren’t cheap to say the least, even when manufactured in large quantities. But this situation has slowly started to change with the advent of the HK416 assault rifle.

message-editor%2F1487969368990-hhd1.jpg



For a company that likes to go their own way design-wise, building yet another AR-15 derivative seems too pedestrian. But after being spurred by the Army's tier one counter-terrorism force, better known as the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta or just "Delta Force," it wound up being a wildly good business decision. Built with the special operator in mind, the HK416 adopts the usual AR-15 format but gets rid of the direct impingement style gas system that Eugene Stoner came up with well over a half century ago. Instead, a gas piston and pushrod is used to cycle the weapon when it’s fired, similar to the famously indestructible AK-47 and similar to H&K’s G36 assault rifle.
 
We're discussing 2A's definition of "arms".

Open ended and specifically states .. “ shall not be infringed upon “ . The FF were smarter than most , if muskets were the arms of the day and they specifically meant muskets and nothing else why didn’t they use the word musket instead of arms ? It’s almost like you think they didn’t believe in any “ arms” advancements in years to come.
 
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Wrong as usual.

The Pentagon Has Slowly Fallen In Love With H&K's Take On The AR-15

The HK416 and its derivatives are quickly becoming the combat rifle that all others are judged by—and the Pentagon is having a hard time denying that fact.

FEBRUARY 24, 2017

Operationally, its career in the US Military started out among the highest rungs of the special operations community, and was made famous by SEAL Team Six as the assault rifle that was used on the raid that killed terror mastermind Osama Bin Laden. Now, a half-decade later, the Army and the Marine Corps have selected versions of the rifle, but for wildly different uses. The Marines in particular have anted up with orders for thousands of units, and these weapons also represent an evolutionary change in tactics for the UMSC, one spurred by hard lessons learned over the past 15 years of perpetual warfare in the Middle East.

German small arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch is world renowned for making some of the finest, most durable firearms on the planet, and they aren’t afraid to go their own way when it comes to design. From being the first adopter of polymer for combat firearms to their super-accurate “lemon squeezer” P7 series of handguns to firearms designed to be used by combat divers underwater—as well as legendary and widely used weapons like the MP5 submachine, PSG sniper rifle, USP handgun, to the G3 battle rifle. The company's achievements go on and on. But outside the special operations community, where budgets aren’t so generous or flexible and procurement is a precarious bureaucratic maze, H&K has struggled to achieve big orders from the Pentagon. Price has a lot to do with it. The company’s firearms aren’t cheap to say the least, even when manufactured in large quantities. But this situation has slowly started to change with the advent of the HK416 assault rifle.

message-editor%2F1487969368990-hhd1.jpg



For a company that likes to go their own way design-wise, building yet another AR-15 derivative seems too pedestrian. But after being spurred by the Army's tier one counter-terrorism force, better known as the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta or just "Delta Force," it wound up being a wildly good business decision. Built with the special operator in mind, the HK416 adopts the usual AR-15 format but gets rid of the direct impingement style gas system that Eugene Stoner came up with well over a half century ago. Instead, a gas piston and pushrod is used to cycle the weapon when it’s fired, similar to the famously indestructible AK-47 and similar to H&K’s G36 assault rifle.

Well you got me on that one. A niche gun that is used in extremely limited numbers. Contrast that with the millions of ARs that are in private hands in the US.
 
Well you got me on that one. A niche gun that is used in extremely limited numbers. Contrast that with the millions of ARs that are in private hands in the US.

The standard-issue M4 is also an AR15 derivative.

M4 carbine



An M4 equipped with an ACOG scope and a vertical foregrip, mounted on rails

M4 carbine
Production information
Country of origin
United States
Manufacturer
(s)

Colt Defense, FN
Production began
1994
Technical specifications
Weapon type
Carbine
Caliber
5.56×45mm NATO
Action
Gas operated, Rotating bolt
Length
33 inches
Barrel length
14.5 inches
Weight
5.9 pounds
Feed system
30 rounds
Cyclic rate
700 - 940 rounds per minute
Maximum effective range
500 meters (point target), 600 meters (area target)
Muzzle velocity
884 meters per second

The M4 is the carbine variant of the AR-15 adopted by the United States Military, derived from the M16 assault rifle adopted by the United States. Manufacturers have changed over time in light of military contracts. The first M4s were made by Colt, and later also supplied by Fabrique Nationale.
 
The standard-issue M4 is also an AR15 derivative.

M4 carbine



An M4 equipped with an ACOG scope and a vertical foregrip, mounted on rails

M4 carbine
Production information

Country of origin
United States
Manufacturer
(s)

Colt Defense, FN
Production began
1994
Technical specifications
Weapon type
Carbine
Caliber
5.56×45mm NATO
Action
Gas operated, Rotating bolt
Length
33 inches
Barrel length
14.5 inches
Weight
5.9 pounds
Feed system
30 rounds
Cyclic rate
700 - 940 rounds per minute
Maximum effective range
500 meters (point target), 600 meters (area target)
Muzzle velocity
884 meters per second

The M4 is the carbine variant of the AR-15 adopted by the United States Military, derived from the M16 assault rifle adopted by the United States. Manufacturers have changed over time in light of military contracts. The first M4s were made by Colt, and later also supplied by Fabrique Nationale.

So it's actually a derivative of the m16?
 
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We're discussing 2A's definition of "arms".

In a disingenuous way. You want to ban all semi automatic weapons (your words not mine). That’s far different than nuclear weapons. Semi automatic weapons fit 100% within the intent and scope of the first amendment and were 100% available when the constitution was written.
 
In a disingenuous way. You want to ban all semi automatic weapons (your words not mine). That’s far different than nuclear weapons. Semi automatic weapons fit 100% within the intent and scope of the first amendment and were 100% available when the constitution was written.

Say what now? Please provide a list of the semi-automatic weapons available in 1791 (when 2A was adopted).
 
Say what now? Please provide a list of the semi-automatic weapons available in 1791 (when 2A was adopted).

I don't know about "list" but the Puckle gun was patented in 1718.

The idea that at the time of the 2A the concept of much more advanced firearms than what was in use at the time was beyond the Framers ability to foresee is intellectually flawed.
 
Say what now? Please provide a list of the semi-automatic weapons available in 1791 (when 2A was adopted).

Pucklegun, girandoni air rifle, cookson rifle, and the Kalthoff repeater are just a few examples. Some of these had magazines with up to twenty rounds.

Edit: let’s add pepper box revolvers to that list too and the Belton flintlock which we have written accounts knowing the founders were aware. The accounts claim the weapon could fire 20 rounds with 1 pull of the trigger. The founders were going to have Belton produce them, but the bid he submitted was too high.
 
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