Poll: If you are a Trump supporter, do you consider him to be a “good Christian?”

[Septic]

Septic, what would be worth dying and going to hell for? The answer is simply nothing.
I'll pray as earnest as I know how for you tonight.
Have you ever met what you would consider a real Christian?

I don't live in fear of your fire and brimstone construct of eternal punishment, sorry.

What is your definition of a "real" christian? I was indoctrinated just as you were, "saved" even. And then I woke up.

 

[Jxn Vol]

Sure, if the LDS was reading from a scroll 3000 years old

I don’t think J-seph Smith is old enough. Although if he located a flux capacitor it is possible.

 

[BigO95]

I don't live in fear of your fire and brimstone construct of eternal punishment, sorry.

What is your definition of a "real" christian? I was indoctrinated just as you were, "saved" even. And then I woke up.

Somebody that really knows God and really lives by the book. Someone who gets their prayers answered and someone when you really need a prayer through that you would call on.
Perhaps you made a profession without a possession?

 

[creekdipper]

When it comes to being an egotistical liar, without empathy .....

Yes, Trump is worse. In fact, I would say that when it comes to being a lying narcissist, his response to losing the 2020 Presidential Election reveals Trump to be without peer in that regard.

However, you also said that Biden didn't treat other people with respect. Can you give examples of such behavior?

Sure can. How many you want, ya lying, dog-faced pony soldier?

Well, setting aside all the hair-sniffing and unwanted handling of females who are visibly uncomfortable by the attention...

I'd say calling Obama the first African-American to run for national office to be "bright and articulate and good-looking and clean" didn't show a lot of respect for earlier candidates such as Chisholm, Jackson, Sharpton, etc. And that's even if you overlook the uncoded racist language directed toward Obama.

"Man, that Shirley Chisholm wasn't,t very clean. And Jackson wasn't articulate, and Sharpton isn't too bright. And none of them were good-looking.

But with this boy here, woo-ee...we hit the jackpot. What we got here is the Magic Negro himself."

That's the message he sent in 2007 after he'd served decades in Congress. And then again during his third try for the Presidency, he presumed to tell a black man that "you ain't black if you don't vote for me."

Dunno...maybe that's standard "respectful" language in Delaware. Pretending that his close ancestors were poor coal miners wasn't too respectful, either (oh, yeah ..he just 'forgot' to cite his references...which wouldn't say much for his mental faculties, would it?

But, as Corn Pop would say while plucking out red leg hairs with his rusty razor from the rain barrel, "Joey...it's not so much about the paycheck, it's about the dignity of the Hyde Amendment. Now, get that d**n dog to quit biting. This is a big f***inch deal!"

 

[MercyPercy]

I've never been where they broke out the snakes but I have been where some charismatic people were and they started speaking in ecstatic tongues .

This is just a scenario for you to ponder, you don't have to believe it's true. You just have to put yourself in the situation. How would you feel if you found out for a fact that the charismatic individuals speaking in ecstatic tongues were con artists, making it all up and shouting nonsense. Scamming folks that may be struggling heavily in life and are looking for any sort of guidance, like you when you were younger. The type of person easily influenced given their desperate state, and perhaps in general prone to a lack of skepticism either due to upbringing or genetics (yes, this has legs). And these scammers are moving those poor folks to tears because they think they're witnessing a true miracle when in reality they're just customers sold a fake stage drama.

Would you stay away from those types in the future or chalk that up to the devil's meddlin'?

 

[BigO95]

This is just a scenario for you to ponder, you don't have to believe it's true. You just have to put yourself in the situation. How would you feel if you found out for a fact that the charismatic individuals speaking in ecstatic tongues were con artists, making it all up and shouting nonsense. Scamming folks that may be struggling heavily in life and are looking for any sort of guidance, like you when you were younger. The type of person easily influenced given their desperate state, and perhaps in general prone to a lack of skepticism either due to upbringing or genetics (yes, this has legs). And these scammers are moving those poor folks to tears because they think they're witnessing a true miracle when in reality they're just customers sold a fake stage drama.

Would you stay away from those types in the future or chalk that up to the devil's meddlin'?

I preach against that mess nearly every week of my life. I know it happens and even happens where the truth is preached sometimes. The devil goes to church, you can believe that!

 

[BigO95]

That doesn't mean that the word of God isn't true though. That doesn't mean that there's not real Christian people.

 

[MercyPercy]

I preach against that mess nearly every week of my life. I know it happens and even happens where the truth is preached sometimes. The devil goes to church, you can believe that!

How can you tell if a man's incoherent mumble-shouting is a real miracle or a guy jerking your rosary?

 

[BigO95]

That's why I hate religion, it turns people away from the true and living God!

 

[BigO95]

How can you tell if a man's incoherent mumble-shouting is a real miracle or a guy jerking your rosary?

The bible

 

[MercyPercy]

The bible

I see.

 

[BigO95]

And what's bad is people who preach right doctrine are sometimes nothing but a rotten hypocrite too. I'm not living for those people, I'm living for Jesus!!

 

[BigO95]

I see.

That's how we know right doctrine. If you get the right doctrine and they line up with the bible you weed most of the fakes out.

 

[Septic]

That's how we know right doctrine. If you get the right doctrine and they line up with the bible you weed most of the fakes out.

It's estimated that there are more than 45,000 Christian denominations globally and more than 200 in the U.S., according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity.

You asked me "what if you're wrong."

What if you're wrong?

 

[DuckInAPen]

And as has already been said in this thread……that word is never translated as “everlasting “ in any other ancient literature. It’s “final”

I don't have the leisure at present to wade into the Battle of the VolNation Theologians, but I will point out that what you've written above about the meaning of αἰώνιος is completely wrong. You might start here:

Loading…

logeion.uchicago.edu

 

[MercyPercy]

That's how we know right doctrine. If you get the right doctrine and they line up with the bible you weed most of the fakes out.

Does the Bible describe how you can determine if tongue speaker A and tongue speaker B are legit or fakers? Without knowing anything about their personal lives?

And what if a faker knew what your interpretation of the scripture was so he said all the right things? In your scenario you'd treat him as legit because his "doctrine" lines up with yours. But in reality.. it's just a ugly person taking advantage of the disadvantaged.

 

[BigO95]

It's estimated that there are more than 45,000 Christian denominations globally and more than 200 in the U.S., according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity.

You asked me "what if you're wrong."

What if you're wrong?

The evidence for a risen savior is overwhelming

 

[BigO95]

Does the Bible describe how you can determine if tongue speaker A and tongue speaker B are legit or fakers? Without knowing anything about their personal lives?

And what if a faker knew what your interpretation of the scripture was so he said all the right things? In your scenario you'd treat him as legit because his "doctrine" lines up with yours. But in reality.. it's just a ugly person taking advantage of the disadvantaged.

First of all, study the doctrines of speaking in tongues and all that the bible has to say about it. You'll weed all of the fakes out there. This modern day ecstatic tongues movement is not hard to weed out.

 

[BigO95]

Careful bible study ruins a lot of preaching and teaching.

 

[Septic]

The evidence for a risen savior is overwhelming

You keep repeating that while ducking the actual questions being posed. I think you want to have a honest conversation but I'm imagining your brain short circuiting early in the process of having to reconcile these inconvenient questions.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I don't have the leisure at present to wade into the Battle of the VolNation Theologians, but I will point out that what you've written above about the meaning of αἰώνιος is completely wrong. You might start here:

Loading…

logeion.uchicago.edu

You might start there is you were starting where tha KJV translators started. Which is not the koine Greek. In the original common Greek language the word is “final”.

******Borrowing from a paper written by a friend ******


The problem we see today lies in the English definition/understanding of words translated “eternal / everlasting / forever” which is: “without beginning or end.” But the ancient definition of “eternal / everlasting / forever” is “without ceasing until the end.” There is much evidence of this, but here are two examples:

#1 – Many Ancient Greek scrolls contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as αιώνιος the Greek word translated “eternal” in English Bibles. But all that is meant is that they held their office for life — not that the emperor was immortal, or that his reign never ended.

#2 – Dead Sea Scrolls: the wicked will suffer “unending dread and shame without end, and of disgrace of destruction by fire of the region of darkness. And all their time from age to age are in most sorrowful chagrin and bitterest misfortune, in calamities of darkness till they are destroyed with none of them surviving or escaping” (1QS 4.11-14). Note that this is saying punishment in hell is without end until they are destroyed.

It should be noted that Jesus’ use of the words kill, perish, and destroy in Matt 10:28 and John 3:16), and Peter and Paul’s use of the word destruction in 2 Peter 2:12, Phil 1:28, and 2 Thess 1:9 (as well as countless scriptures stressing conditional immortality), demonstrates that the Greco-Roman belief in the inherent immortality of the soul was the inaccurate view, not the Jews’ belief in annihilation.


*****************


I get that the truth is devastating to your ability to scare children into a belief system but the fact remains that Torah “the word of G-d” has never taught eternal torture. And the writings “New Testament” is commentary on that word.

Torah was handled by scribes that took great care to insure that Torah remained accurate. As proof we have complete copies of Torah from the Dead Sea scrolls that date pre 500 BCE. They are very different from the NT writings which the oldest copies look nothing like what you read today.

@MercyPercy mentioned the snake handlers. Those VS are not in any copies of the gospel of Mark till 500 years later and are in direct conflict with the rest of the messiah’s teachings. Just like eternal torture is in conflict with the entirety of the word of G-d.

 

[Orangeslice13]

That garbage always amazes me.
People wade into their concordance and read the Bible with their 2024 understanding of language and definitions. They never seem to want to look at what the people who wrote these things 2000 years ago understood these words to mean.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Sure can. How many you want, ya lying, dog-faced pony soldier?

Well, setting aside all the hair-sniffing and unwanted handling of females who are visibly uncomfortable by the attention...

I'd say calling Obama the first African-American to run for national office to be "bright and articulate and good-looking and clean" didn't show a lot of respect for earlier candidates such as Chisholm, Jackson, Sharpton, etc. And that's even if you overlook the uncoded racist language directed toward Obama.

"Man, that Shirley Chisholm wasn't,t very clean. And Jackson wasn't articulate, and Sharpton isn't too bright. And none of them were good-looking.

But with this boy here, woo-ee...we hit the jackpot. What we got here is the Magic Negro himself."

That's the message he sent in 2007 after he'd served decades in Congress. And then again during his third try for the Presidency, he presumed to tell a black man that "you ain't black if you don't vote for me."

Dunno...maybe that's standard "respectful" language in Delaware. Pretending that his close ancestors were poor coal miners wasn't too respectful, either (oh, yeah ..he just 'forgot' to cite his references...which wouldn't say much for his mental faculties, would it?

But, as Corn Pop would say while plucking out red leg hairs with his rusty razor from the rain barrel, "Joey...it's not so much about the paycheck, it's about the dignity of the Hyde Amendment. Now, get that d**n dog to quit biting. This is a big f***inch deal!"

You are making up a lot here .... but you know that.

 

[Tin Man]

I'm honored to have my own response category--but, seriously, you have to be brain dead to think that Trump is anything
but an absolutely terrible human being, and I mean terrible with a capital T. And yet many MAGA are oblivious to such an
obvious fact. To listen to MAGA folk explain why they like the gangster is beyond cringe, as their responses have no relationship--at all--
to reality. They're like Charlie Manson followers....

Please, never hesitate to post. Between you and McDad, I am rewarded for my rare forays into the PF.

 

[Tin Man]

I post in support of pure rhubarb pie, not the rhubarb-strawberry hybrids. Real, honest to goodness rhubarb pie has a place in Americana. Mm mm, good!