Possible Replacement For Serrano?

I think there is a lot of "right" in this thread. I think those discussing the administration's commitment are spot on.

However, once the season starts and it's about just the games, just the results of the games, I can see the other side.

In 2012, CDS' first season, he went 7-8 in his first 15 SEC games. That is the closest we've been to .500 since. This year we started off 4-11, the worst start since Serrano has been here.

Last year, 6-9...the 2 years before that 5-10...

It's hard to recover from starts like that in this league. Whether it's on the coaches or the players or both...we don't seem to get things figured out quick enough and we don't seem ready to play at the SEC level, whether it was fielding early last year or pitching this year...it's been something every year.

Everyone is frustrated. Everyone is looking for answers. I think there is enough blame to go around, what we do about it is a tougher question to answer.
 
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I posted some of this on another forum, but I want to weigh in with it here as well.

The baseball program here isn't going to be as successful as other teams in this league until the administration decides to devote resources to support the program at the same level other schools in this league are. There are plenty more factors than just a facility. If you want to focus on one thing, that's fine, but it's not the whole story.

The fact is, other schools in this league are spending twice as much (or more) on baseball than Tennessee is and our staff is being asked to be competitive with them anyway.

What areas are they outspending us? Travel, for one. Most teams in the league are using charter flights for trips longer than 3 hours. Ours busses virtually everywhere. They can't fly commercial out of Knoxville because of the size of the travel party. So where other teams are spending an hour on a flight, our team is on a bus for 6 hours. They're actually getting to fly to Missouri this weekend, but only because two sleeper busses couldn't be secured like the last time they went there.

Another area is that UT has decided not to spend the money it costs (about $5-6000 per game) to produce every baseball and softball game for an SEC Network+ stream, instead choosing to devote resources to do a better production for a smaller number of games. UT is one of the only schools choosing to do it this way. Most schools are streaming all of their baseball and softball games.

Our stadium and stadium situation hurt our fan support as much as anything on the field. UT makes it very difficult for a fan to come to a game. There is virtually no parking (although the new garage on the old Stokely site will help some), and once fans get to the gates, they find a stadium with terrible concessions and no atmosphere. You can blame marketing or whatever, but the biggest problem is that fans are used to coming to first-class facilities to watch UT games. They get that at Neyland, Thompson-Boling, Regal Soccer Stadium and Lee Softball Stadium, but they get the exact opposite at LNS. On the days we do draw a decent crowd, the amenities like restrooms and concessions are completely overwhelmed. Not solely because of mismanagement, but because the facilities lack the ability to serve that many people in a timely fashion.

There are a half-dozen other examples I can cite, but those are a couple of the big ones. None of these issues are the single reason UT baseball is not succeeding, but as part of the full picture, it's tough to compete.

The bottom line is this. If you want to blame Dave Serrano for the team underperforming, that's fine, that's your right. There are certainly numbers that support that position and I won't dispute that at all. But if you think that just hiring a new coach is going to change everything, then you're wrong. You're free to disagree with that, but it's the truth.

The best we can hope for out of the program with the current level of investment is middle of the pack. True, we're not currently achieving even that. But this is a deeper problem than just getting rid of a coach with a proven track record.

Rod Delmonico was an abrasive jerk, but he was an above-average coach that was able to be successful until other programs started investing in baseball like UT was doing in the 90s. As other programs rose, ours fell because we didn't match the new investments. We fell further behind and dumped Rod. Hired Todd Raleigh on the cheap and let the program fall even more while spending even less on it. They promised Serrano additional investments to get him to come here and he made less in his first few years here than he was making at Fullerton to help make those investments a reality. They never came and now we are where we are.

You can label all of this as "excuses" if you want, but they're the realities that Serrano is working with. They are the same realities that the next coach will deal with, whether that's next year or in five years.

Thanks for weighing in,

Without digging thru revenues for all the SEC athletic departments, is there a way to find a side by side(Vandy excluded of course) comparison of AD spending on baseball?
 
I posted some of this on another forum, but I want to weigh in with it here as well.

The baseball program here isn't going to be as successful as other teams in this league until the administration decides to devote resources to support the program at the same level other schools in this league are. There are plenty more factors than just a facility. If you want to focus on one thing, that's fine, but it's not the whole story.

The fact is, other schools in this league are spending twice as much (or more) on baseball than Tennessee is and our staff is being asked to be competitive with them anyway.

What areas are they outspending us? Travel, for one. Most teams in the league are using charter flights for trips longer than 3 hours. Ours busses virtually everywhere. They can't fly commercial out of Knoxville because of the size of the travel party. So where other teams are spending an hour on a flight, our team is on a bus for 6 hours. They're actually getting to fly to Missouri this weekend, but only because two sleeper busses couldn't be secured like the last time they went there.

Another area is that UT has decided not to spend the money it costs (about $5-6000 per game) to produce every baseball and softball game for an SEC Network+ stream, instead choosing to devote resources to do a better production for a smaller number of games. UT is one of the only schools choosing to do it this way. Most schools are streaming all of their baseball and softball games.

Our stadium and stadium situation hurt our fan support as much as anything on the field. UT makes it very difficult for a fan to come to a game. There is virtually no parking (although the new garage on the old Stokely site will help some), and once fans get to the gates, they find a stadium with terrible concessions and no atmosphere. You can blame marketing or whatever, but the biggest problem is that fans are used to coming to first-class facilities to watch UT games. They get that at Neyland, Thompson-Boling, Regal Soccer Stadium and Lee Softball Stadium, but they get the exact opposite at LNS. On the days we do draw a decent crowd, the amenities like restrooms and concessions are completely overwhelmed. Not solely because of mismanagement, but because the facilities lack the ability to serve that many people in a timely fashion.

There are a half-dozen other examples I can cite, but those are a couple of the big ones. None of these issues are the single reason UT baseball is not succeeding, but as part of the full picture, it's tough to compete.

The bottom line is this. If you want to blame Dave Serrano for the team underperforming, that's fine, that's your right. There are certainly numbers that support that position and I won't dispute that at all. But if you think that just hiring a new coach is going to change everything, then you're wrong. You're free to disagree with that, but it's the truth.

The best we can hope for out of the program with the current level of investment is middle of the pack. True, we're not currently achieving even that. But this is a deeper problem than just getting rid of a coach with a proven track record.

Rod Delmonico was an abrasive jerk, but he was an above-average coach that was able to be successful until other programs started investing in baseball like UT was doing in the 90s. As other programs rose, ours fell because we didn't match the new investments. We fell further behind and dumped Rod. Hired Todd Raleigh on the cheap and let the program fall even more while spending even less on it. They promised Serrano additional investments to get him to come here and he made less in his first few years here than he was making at Fullerton to help make those investments a reality. They never came and now we are where we are.

You can label all of this as "excuses" if you want, but they're the realities that Serrano is working with. They are the same realities that the next coach will deal with, whether that's next year or in five years.

I find much of this troubling and I hope you don't mind me asking some questions.

First, I'd like to say the facilities part of this is easy. The info is easily attainable and I posted it so that folks could see what is going on around the league the past few years and into the near future. The simple point being, we are falling behind.

The issues with travel, television...most of us have no way of knowing about those issues, so while I might surmise things, it's just a guess on my part and I don't think it's fair to UT to post what I think as some sort of fact. I DO appreciate that you have educated us on these issues and I feel a certain amount of outrage because I've held the belief that not JUST the players and coaches deserve more...WE deserve more.

Second, you DO discuss the facilities/parking/restroom/concessions in your post and while you do not mention TV's in the concourse to help get the people through the innings they miss while waiting in the lines you address I will do so...because it's a cheap fix.

You say there "are a half dozen other examples I can cite"...
I'd like to hear those. Not because I want to slam UT but because I care.

Finally you say:

They promised Serrano additional investments to get him to come here and he made less in his first few years here than he was making at Fullerton to help make those investments a reality. They never came and now we are where we are.


That is hard to understand. While I get that Hart was not AD at the time, I find it hard to believe he's unaware of what was promised CDS. I also find it troubling that I have been under the assumption that CDS was making at least twice what he was making at CSF. Your post makes it sound as if he'd taken a cut in his salary for the benefit of the overall program. I was just looking at his contract the other day...it was not amended in any way, at least that I can tell.

If I'm taking it the wrong way, I'm sure you will correct me.
 
While we are on the subject of what we can offer a recruit...let's talk Cape Cod. Every college player wants to experience that and if you do not...well...

Fr. Patrick Raby (P) Bourne

Fr. Evan Steele (P) Brewster

Fr. Alonzo Jones (2B) Cotuit

Fr. Chandler Day (P) Orleans

Fr. Donny Everett (P) Orleans

Fr. Ethan Paul (SS) Orleans

So. Jeren Kendall (OF) Cotuit

So. Matt Rupenthal (P) Cotuit

So. Kyle Wright (P) Cotuit

So. Will Toffey (inf) Y-D

Those are the players from VU on Cape rosters today for the up coming summer.

So. Aaron Soto (P) Brewster

So. Zach Warren (P) Orleans

So. Benito Santiago* (C) Hyannis * temporary contract

These are the Tennessee players on Cape rosters today for the upcoming summer.
 
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I posted some of this on another forum, but I want to weigh in with it here as well.

The baseball program here isn't going to be as successful as other teams in this league until the administration decides to devote resources to support the program at the same level other schools in this league are. There are plenty more factors than just a facility. If you want to focus on one thing, that's fine, but it's not the whole story.

The fact is, other schools in this league are spending twice as much (or more) on baseball than Tennessee is and our staff is being asked to be competitive with them anyway.

What areas are they outspending us? Travel, for one. Most teams in the league are using charter flights for trips longer than 3 hours. Ours busses virtually everywhere. They can't fly commercial out of Knoxville because of the size of the travel party. So where other teams are spending an hour on a flight, our team is on a bus for 6 hours. They're actually getting to fly to Missouri this weekend, but only because two sleeper busses couldn't be secured like the last time they went there.

Another area is that UT has decided not to spend the money it costs (about $5-6000 per game) to produce every baseball and softball game for an SEC Network+ stream, instead choosing to devote resources to do a better production for a smaller number of games. UT is one of the only schools choosing to do it this way. Most schools are streaming all of their baseball and softball games.

Our stadium and stadium situation hurt our fan support as much as anything on the field. UT makes it very difficult for a fan to come to a game. There is virtually no parking (although the new garage on the old Stokely site will help some), and once fans get to the gates, they find a stadium with terrible concessions and no atmosphere. You can blame marketing or whatever, but the biggest problem is that fans are used to coming to first-class facilities to watch UT games. They get that at Neyland, Thompson-Boling, Regal Soccer Stadium and Lee Softball Stadium, but they get the exact opposite at LNS. On the days we do draw a decent crowd, the amenities like restrooms and concessions are completely overwhelmed. Not solely because of mismanagement, but because the facilities lack the ability to serve that many people in a timely fashion.

There are a half-dozen other examples I can cite, but those are a couple of the big ones. None of these issues are the single reason UT baseball is not succeeding, but as part of the full picture, it's tough to compete.

The bottom line is this. If you want to blame Dave Serrano for the team underperforming, that's fine, that's your right. There are certainly numbers that support that position and I won't dispute that at all. But if you think that just hiring a new coach is going to change everything, then you're wrong. You're free to disagree with that, but it's the truth.

The best we can hope for out of the program with the current level of investment is middle of the pack. True, we're not currently achieving even that. But this is a deeper problem than just getting rid of a coach with a proven track record.

Rod Delmonico was an abrasive jerk, but he was an above-average coach that was able to be successful until other programs started investing in baseball like UT was doing in the 90s. As other programs rose, ours fell because we didn't match the new investments. We fell further behind and dumped Rod. Hired Todd Raleigh on the cheap and let the program fall even more while spending even less on it. They promised Serrano additional investments to get him to come here and he made less in his first few years here than he was making at Fullerton to help make those investments a reality. They never came and now we are where we are.

You can label all of this as "excuses" if you want, but they're the realities that Serrano is working with. They are the same realities that the next coach will deal with, whether that's next year or in five years.

Thank you for touching on a few things I was aware of and a few that I wasn't or hadn't thought of. I just hate this situation. We have a good group of coaches and I would love to see what they could put together with a level playing field. I'm sure Serrano would do a few things differently knowing what he knows now, but that's the way things work. I hope they keep him around and decide to put their money where their mouth is.
 
While we are on the subject of what we can offer a recruit...let's talk Cape Cod. Every college player wants to experience that and if you do not...well...

Fr. Patrick Raby (P) Bourne

Fr. Evan Steele (P) Brewster

Fr. Alonzo Jones (2B) Cotuit

Fr. Chandler Day (P) Orleans

Fr. Donny Everett (P) Orleans

Fr. Ethan Paul (SS) Orleans

So. Jeren Kendall (OF) Cotuit

So. Matt Rupenthal (P) Cotuit

So. Kyle Wright (P) Cotuit

So. Will Toffey (inf) Y-D

Those are the players from VU on Cape rosters today for the up coming summer.

So. Aaron Soto (P) Brewster

So. Zach Warren (P) Orleans

So. Benito Santiago* (C) Hyannis * temporary contract

These are the Tennessee players on Cape rosters today for the upcoming summer.


Not sure what you are getting at really.

Players that are seen as real pro prospects go to the cape. Those guys aren't getting to the cape because they play for Vandy and they certainly didn't commit to vandy because of the cape.


I am really surprised soto is going Because he isn't a real prospect IMO. Good job by CDS getting him on a roster
 
Serrano was not making more at Fullerton than he is at UT. According to the OC Register his base pay at Fullerton was $140k. No way he was making $300+k in supplemental income. Fullerton's athletic department is very cash strapped even though their baseball program is nationally prominent.
 
Serrano was not making more at Fullerton than he is at UT. According to the OC Register his base pay at Fullerton was $140k. No way he was making $300+k in supplemental income. Fullerton's athletic department is very cash strapped even though their baseball program is nationally prominent.

Agreed
 
Serrano was not making more at Fullerton than he is at UT. According to the OC Register his base pay at Fullerton was $140k. No way he was making $300+k in supplemental income. Fullerton's athletic department is very cash strapped even though their baseball program is nationally prominent.

His total pay package here his first season was less than Fullerton offered him to stay. You can dispute that if you'd like, but I know that to be accurate.
 
Not sure what you are getting at really.

Players that are seen as real pro prospects go to the cape. Those guys aren't getting to the cape because they play for Vandy and they certainly didn't commit to vandy because of the cape.


I am really surprised soto is going Because he isn't a real prospect IMO. Good job by CDS getting him on a roster

You don't see what I'm getting at?

"Players that are seen as pro prospects go to the Cape."

1. You don't think Corbin tells every kid he recruits that he will get a shot in the Cape?

2. Wouldn't you agree that if other SEC teams are putting more kids in the Cape, by your definition, they have been able to recruit more talented pro prospects than we have?

3. We are at the bottom of the list the last 5 years, maybe with Mizzou and Auburn...exactly the teams at the bottom of the conference.

You don't see a correlation?

When you say Soto is lucky, and are informed that Benny is a temp...are you saying we have one legit player while other schools like LSU, MSU, Vandy and UF all have 8+ players?

And you aren't sure what I'm getting at?
 
You don't see what I'm getting at?

"Players that are seen as pro prospects go to the Cape."

1. You don't think Corbin tells every kid he recruits that he will get a shot in the Cape?

2. Wouldn't you agree that if other SEC teams are putting more kids in the Cape, by your definition, they have been able to recruit more talented pro prospects than we have?

3. We are at the bottom of the list the last 5 years, maybe with Mizzou and Auburn...exactly the teams at the bottom of the conference.

You don't see a correlation?

When you say Soto is lucky, and are informed that Benny is a temp...are you saying we have one legit player while other schools like LSU, MSU, Vandy and UF all have 8+ players?

And you aren't sure what I'm getting at?

Are you saying those players at Vandy are committing to them Because they know they will go to the cape?

If so I disagree. Those kids are going to the cape regardless where they play


If you are using this as more ammo to say we don't recruit enough talent then I completely agree
 
Are you saying those players at Vandy are committing to them Because they know they will go to the cape?

If so I disagree. Those kids are going to the cape regardless where they play


If you are using this as more ammo to say we don't recruit enough talent then I completely agree

Everything is black and white with you. Vandy offers everything...everything...

The Cape, US National Team, Regardless of where you are drafted you'll be better off when you leave here, better facilities than many MLB club houses, top flight degree...

Not to mention, regionals, hosting supers, a legit shot every year to make the CWS.


Look man, the Cape makes players money...Nick is a perfect example...the difference is we have 2 or 3 "Nicks" and the top of the league has 10. Andy Cox is an example of missing the opportunity.
 
The facilities for the baseball players at UT are excellent. I have been to every SEC baseball facility except Texas A&M and Kentucky and the UT facilities for the players themselves is on par or better than the other SEC schools. No question that the atmosphere and crowd size at UT does not compete with many of the schools, especially the western conference crowd and South Carolina. I still think if they win they will get solid crowds. Florida is ranked number 1 and UT's stadium is every bit as nice as theirs. I hate Vandy's stadium, but it has not stopped them.
 
Everything is black and white with you. Vandy offers everything...everything...

The Cape, US National Team, Regardless of where you are drafted you'll be better off when you leave here, better facilities than many MLB club houses, top flight degree...

Not to mention, regionals, hosting supers, a legit shot every year to make the CWS.


Look man, the Cape makes players money...Nick is a perfect example...the difference is we have 2 or 3 "Nicks" and the top of the league has 10. Andy Cox is an example of missing the opportunity.

Sure the cape makes $ I agree but Vandy isn't getting those kids to the cape. Those kids are elite prospects coming out of hs. They are heading to the cape regardless of where they attend. The cape is run basically by scouts. It a scout wants a kid there they go regardless of the school
 
Sure the cape makes $ I agree but Vandy isn't getting those kids to the cape. Those kids are elite prospects coming out of hs. They are heading to the cape regardless of where they attend. The cape is run basically by scouts. It a scout wants a kid there they go regardless of the school

Do you think UK basketball players are not being told by Calipari that they'll get to the NBA through him? Would they get there through other schools? If so, why would they not go elsewhere to be THE guy instead of one of the guys? Same thing with Vandy in baseball.
 
Sure the cape makes $ I agree but Vandy isn't getting those kids to the cape. Those kids are elite prospects coming out of hs. They are heading to the cape regardless of where they attend. The cape is run basically by scouts. It a scout wants a kid there they go regardless of the school

You are making my point for me. It is something Corbin can Guarantee. It is something Mainieri, O'Sullivan, Cohen...we offer hope with hard work in a mediocre atmosphere.
 
You are making my point for me. It is something Corbin can Guarantee. It is something Mainieri, O'Sullivan, Cohen...we offer hope with hard work in a mediocre atmosphere.

66,

It's based on talent. Again if we sign a top 100 player like nearly all of vandys are we will send them to the cape.

Look at 3 of our local commits.

Liggenfelter and carter will go as freshmen based off of high school draft status

Trammel our kid today won't unless his profile is raised dramatically. He wasn't even ranked on PG that you linked
 
Do you think UK basketball players are not being told by Calipari that they'll get to the NBA through him? Would they get there through other schools? If so, why would they not go elsewhere to be THE guy instead of one of the guys? Same thing with Vandy in baseball.


Sure he does and they end up going to the nba Because they are damn good talent wise
 
66,

It's based on talent. Again if we sign a top 100 player like nearly all of vandys are we will send them to the cape.

Look at 3 of our local commits.

Liggenfelter and carter will go as freshmen based off of high school draft status

Trammel our kid today won't unless his profile is raised dramatically. He wasn't even ranked on PG that you linked

I disagree...but to your point...if the other schools have that kind of talent how do we catch them?

Most of the guys we have put in the cape have earned their way...Maddox, Smart, Lee, Owenby, Senzel, Martin, Stewart...Serrano is the only one that got there on what he did in HS that I can think of since CDS has been here.
 
66,

It's based on talent. Again if we sign a top 100 player like nearly all of vandys are we will send them to the cape.

Look at 3 of our local commits.

Liggenfelter and carter will go as freshmen based off of high school draft status

Trammel our kid today won't unless his profile is raised dramatically. He wasn't even ranked on PG that you linked

The Cape (all summer leagues for that matter) is based on talent that the summer coaches can sign. It is about the summer coach's relationship with the college coaches. It is a two-way street...the summer coaches go to college coaches they trust and try to fill their roster. A college coach's reputation is built on the results of the players that he sends. Obviously, a college coach is going to try and place a player in a league that is at the player's level. That way the player will get to play and that is good for their program. The scouts show up to the Cape because they know that the coaches have signed the best talent. The scouts have control over scout ball at the high school level. Those teams are run by MLB scouts.
 
I disagree...but to your point...if the other schools have that kind of talent how do we catch them?

Most of the guys we have put in the cape have earned their way...Maddox, Smart, Lee, Owenby, Senzel, Martin, Stewart...Serrano is the only one that got there on what he did in HS that I can think of since CDS has been here.

Catching them is something we discuss here on a daily basis. IMO I am not sure we can catch them.
 
The Cape (all summer leagues for that matter) is based on talent that the summer coaches can sign. It is about the summer coach's relationship with the college coaches. It is a two-way street...the summer coaches go to college coaches they trust and try to fill their roster. A college coach's reputation is built on the results of the players that he sends. Obviously, a college coach is going to try and place a player in a league that is at the player's level. That way the player will get to play and that is good for their program. The scouts show up to the Cape because they know that the coaches have signed the best talent. The scouts have control over scout ball at the high school level. Those teams are run by MLB scouts.

Mlb scouts have a hell of a lot to do with who goes to the cape. Matter of fact each cape team is basically affiliated with a MLB team

College coaches will help get the borderline kids on rosters like Soto, But the kids we are discussing here are no brainers and would go regardless of where they play their college baseball.
 

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