Potential shipping strike on the East Coast.

#251
#251
SpaceCoastVol said:
So the Biden administration seems to not care enough about the American public to exercise the authority it has to bring this to an end if at least temporarily.

Vote blue.
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The ports can go hire new workers. The admin could stop the negotiations but that doesn't mean the workers are going back to work. I'm not sure what the problem is, everyone seems to worry about how much people are paid at the bottom.

Seems like there is plenty of money to go around i.e. illegals getting free stuff, Ukrainians getting free stuff, corporation boards making big money, etc.
 
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#252
#252
SpaceCoastVol said:
I'm not the one saying we are headed for Armageddon because of this strike.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending this to the degree that it might seem. I think Daggett is a thug. Honestly he's lower than a fentanyl dealer. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if he suddenly found himself drinking scotch with Jimmy Hoffa. But let's not forget that management is also at fault. Whenever a labor dispute gets to a strike, both sides are culpable. The real failure here though is the GOVERNMENT. If this truly has national repercussions, why isn't Puddinhead's administration doing something? He can FORCE them back to work if he wants to. Problem there is that the democrat party knows the ramifications of that action. The schadenfreude I am enjoying in this respect is absolutely delightful. The "party of the worker" has to burn down the workers' house in order to 'prove' they are who they say they are.

Ya'll do realize that we have a federal Department of Labor. Has anyone heard the name Thomas Perez? He should be on the tip of every single American's tongue right now. He is the Secretary of Labor. He's the head cheese after Puddinhead that should be running point on this right now. Admittedly I do not watch the news on any regular basis, and I had to look up who he is. Why is he not front and center, in front of cameras several times each day - if this is as dire as it is being painted to be? Is mediation going on that is being administered by the DOL? If not, WHY THE **** NOT? Because this is just one more example of the utter FAILURE that a Democrat government is, and will be.

Add the DOL to the list of federal agencies that need to be dismantled.
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I don't see the government getting more involved as a positive solution. that just creates more issues down the road. they are enablers and crowd pleasers, not actual fixers.

management shouldn't have let it get this far, and I don't know how negotiations have gone, or if they have been in good faith. but hearing a 50% offer says they haven't been completely sitting on their thumbs. they are probably responsible for starting this mess, but its on the union for escalating to this point, especially with the leaderships response.
 
#254
#254
SpaceCoastVol said:
I'm not the one saying we are headed for Armageddon because of this strike.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending this to the degree that it might seem. I think Daggett is a thug. Honestly he's lower than a fentanyl dealer. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if he suddenly found himself drinking scotch with Jimmy Hoffa. But let's not forget that management is also at fault. Whenever a labor dispute gets to a strike, both sides are culpable. The real failure here though is the GOVERNMENT. If this truly has national repercussions, why isn't Puddinhead's administration doing something? He can FORCE them back to work if he wants to. Problem there is that the democrat party knows the ramifications of that action. The schadenfreude I am enjoying in this respect is absolutely delightful. The "party of the worker" has to burn down the workers' house in order to 'prove' they are who they say they are.

Ya'll do realize that we have a federal Department of Labor. Has anyone heard the name Thomas Perez? He should be on the tip of every single American's tongue right now. He is the Secretary of Labor. He's the head cheese after Puddinhead that should be running point on this right now. Admittedly I do not watch the news on any regular basis, and I had to look up who he is. Why is he not front and center, in front of cameras several times each day - if this is as dire as it is being painted to be? Is mediation going on that is being administered by the DOL? If not, WHY THE **** NOT? Because this is just one more example of the utter FAILURE that a Democrat government is, and will be.

Add the DOL to the list of federal agencies that need to be dismantled.
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Strikes are intended to put pressure on groups to end negotiations quicker. These strikes won't last long IMO.
 
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#257
#257
volbound1700 said:
I also think there are rules in place that likely limit replacing union employees under the NLRA.
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There are rules in place but they can go hire workers now to replace (maybe short term, maybe not) the striking ones, there is no guarantee that the sides will ever come to an agreement. (I generally agree with you though)

The issue to me is people from far away or even close to the situation trying to dictate salary for someone else. Sounds similar to the discussions I had in these forums about NCAA players and payments from 10-15 years ago. Third parties trying to dictate what others are receiving for their labor and placing caps on it.

Everyone is now all worried about how much someone on the bottom is making, in a business they're not even a shareholder. 😂
 
#258
#258
LouderVol said:
I don't see the government getting more involved as a positive solution. that just creates more issues down the road. they are enablers and crowd pleasers, not actual fixers.

management shouldn't have let it get this far, and I don't know how negotiations have gone, or if they have been in good faith. but hearing a 50% offer says they haven't been completely sitting on their thumbs. they are probably responsible for starting this mess, but its on the union for escalating to this point, especially with the leaderships response.
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The government has a whole stable of professional mediators. Biden could order the ILA back to work temporarily while mediation takes place. I would be interested to know if he could also force them into an arbitration scenario where a contract is essentially imposed on both parties. It rarely gets to that point, because labor stands a lot more to lose in an arbitrated settlement because the government will more than likely side with management due to national interest. Again, Puddinhead is between a rock and a hard place here. So they choose to do nothing. LOL That's what passes for leadership with the democrat party.
 
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#259
#259
SpaceCoastVol said:
The government has a whole stable of professional mediators. Biden could order the ILA back to work temporarily while mediation takes place. I would be interested to know if he could also force them into an arbitration scenario where a contract is essentially imposed on both parties. It rarely gets to that point, because labor stands a lot more to lose in an arbitrated settlement because the government will more than likely side with management due to national interest. Again, Puddinhead is between a rock and a hard place here. So they choose to do nothing. LOL That's what passes for leadership with the democrat party.
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I've never heard of such a thing. How can the government force someone into a contract?

arbitrated settlement
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That sounds like there is a legal dispute, what is the legal dispute and where is the lawsuit?

There is no contract.

What you seem to be saying is slavery. 😂
 
#261
#261
SpaceCoastVol said:
The government has a whole stable of professional mediators. Biden could order the ILA back to work temporarily while mediation takes place. I would be interested to know if he could also force them into an arbitration scenario where a contract is essentially imposed on both parties. It rarely gets to that point, because labor stands a lot more to lose in an arbitrated settlement because the government will more than likely side with management due to national interest. Again, Puddinhead is between a rock and a hard place here. So they choose to do nothing. LOL That's what passes for leadership with the democrat party.
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I don't see government control forcing workers back to work as a positive thing. I think they should be able to strike, even if it hurts the nation, I just think they need a better cause than 77% over 50%, and no improvements. like if there was some life safety issues that management was ignoring, I would 100% be fine with shutting down the docks and the fallout from that. taking away their rights isn't a viable solution to me.

the government mediators just gives the government a chance to insert itself and play politics. especially on a topic like this there are some serious players in charge, and I doubt the mediators would be there to help negotiations in good faith.
 
#262
#262
LSU-SIU said:
Well, you tackle that on an ongoing basis, not sure what the problem is. There are laws against violent crime.
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Of course there are. I have no personal experience in this area. But the stories that I have heard about how crossing a picket line ruins your life absolutely convinced me to never do it. Fortunately I never had to make that decision. Continental airlines struck in 1983. United struck in 1985. Neither strike lasted very long, but those pilots that crossed the line and went to work had the rest of their working lives lives ruined. No one would socialize with them. no one would talk to them other than in a professional setting. In many ways it is childish, and I don't condone it but it is reality. I heard a story once about a guy that kept extra tires in his trunk when he went to work because he would have one or more cut while his car was in the employee parking lot. And that's what pilots did. I can only imagine what longshoremen would do.
 
#264
#264
SpaceCoastVol said:
Of course there are. I have no personal experience in this area. But the stories that I have heard about how crossing a picket line ruins your life absolutely convinced me to never do it. Fortunately I never had to make that decision. Continental airlines struck in 1983. United struck in 1985. Neither strike lasted very long, but those pilots that crossed the line and went to work had the rest of their working lives lives ruined. No one would socialize with them. no one would talk to them other than in a professional setting. In many ways it is childish, and I don't condone it but it is reality. I heard a story once about a guy that kept extra tires in his trunk when he went to work because he would have one or more cut while his car was in the employee parking lot. And that's what pilots did. I can only imagine what longshoremen would do.
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I thought these were the good small guys who didn't do nuffin, and it was only a problem with leadership.

I have some second experience with violent unions. family threatened, harmed, and hospitalized, all separate events, with separate unions. and all over completely ridiculous stuff.
 
#265
#265
SpaceCoastVol said:
Of course there are. I have no personal experience in this area. But the stories that I have heard about how crossing a picket line ruins your life absolutely convinced me to never do it. Fortunately I never had to make that decision. Continental airlines struck in 1983. United struck in 1985. Neither strike lasted very long, but those pilots that crossed the line and went to work had the rest of their working lives lives ruined. No one would socialize with them. no one would talk to them other than in a professional setting. In many ways it is childish, and I don't condone it but it is reality. I heard a story once about a guy that kept extra tires in his trunk when he went to work because he would have one or more cut while his car was in the employee parking lot. And that's what pilots did. I can only imagine what longshoremen would do.
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Well, I'm sure its happened, but even if they don't get longshoremen to cross they can go to market right now.... the problem being there really is no labor market to go to i.e. skilled labor. There are already laws at the state level as far as violent crime. Why all of sudden is everyone worried about this?
 
#267
#267
LouderVol said:
I don't see government control forcing workers back to work as a positive thing. I think they should be able to strike, even if it hurts the nation, I just think they need a better cause than 77% over 50%, and no improvements. like if there was some life safety issues that management was ignoring, I would 100% be fine with shutting down the docks and the fallout from that. taking away their rights isn't a viable solution to me.

the government mediators just gives the government a chance to insert itself and play politics. especially on a topic like this there are some serious players in charge, and I doubt the mediators would be there to help negotiations in good faith.
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Mediation doesn't have to be political. Mediation is just an impartial unbiased means to a solution. Arbitration is where politics enter the room.

It's interesting that your first paragraph is a mediated settlement of sorts. You seem to be looking for the middle ground. That's all that would happen during a mediation period. At the end of that, both sides would have to agree to arbitration and there the .gov would write the contract. That never favors labor so they have more incentive to settle. But you also made a choice that trampling their 'rights' to strike is a no-go even if it hurts the nation. That's a bold statement. I think as thuggish as Daggett has acted in what little I have seen of him, he wants to watch the country burn. At some point, national interests will have to take center stage. Puddinhead will have to act.
 
#268
#268
SpaceCoastVol said:
Mediation doesn't have to be political. Mediation is just an impartial unbiased means to a solution. Arbitration is where politics enter the room.

It's interesting that your first paragraph is a mediated settlement of sorts. You seem to be looking for the middle ground. That's all that would happen during a mediation period. At the end of that, both sides would have to agree to arbitration and there the .gov would write the contract. That never favors labor so they have more incentive to settle. But you also made a choice that trampling their 'rights' to strike is a no-go even if it hurts the nation. That's a bold statement. I think as thuggish as Daggett has acted in what little I have seen of him, he wants to watch the country burn. At some point, national interests will have to take center stage. Puddinhead will have to act.
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Where is this process? Where has the federal government been given authority to do what you are saying they should do?

The ice cream man has limited ability, I mean in he as some ability to force the union but that does not guarantee the workers ago back to work.
 
#269
#269
LSU-SIU said:
Well, I'm sure its happened, but even if they don't get longshoremen to cross they can go to market right now.... the problem being there really is no labor market to go to i.e. skilled labor. There are already laws at the state level as far as violent crime. Why all of sudden is everyone worried about this?
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I have no idea how skilled those jobs are, so I don't know how readily replaceable they are. But crossing the line, union or not is a life altering decision that should never, ever be taken lightly. You can talk all you want about how violence is illegal and all that, but it doesn't go well for those that cross.

And everyone is worried because they are running out of toilet paper. That and the media is telling them to.
 
#270
#270
LSU-SIU said:
Where is this process? Where has the federal government been given authority to do what you are saying they should do?
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I would think presidential authority in a national crisis would cover it. The National Labor Relations Board would probably have the process. I know they did for us, and I would assume they would for the ILA.

I went to the NLRB website, and it will be under maintenance from Oct 4 thru October 7. What an interesting coincidence. LOL
 
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#271
#271
SpaceCoastVol said:
I have no idea how skilled those jobs are, so I don't know how readily replaceable they are. But crossing the line, union or not is a life altering decision that should never, ever be taken lightly. You can talk all you want about how violence is illegal and all that, but it doesn't go well for those that cross.

And everyone is worried because they are running out of toilet paper. That and the media is telling them to.
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My mom was in the Teamsters, they went on strike... she would get her lawn chair and go out sit on the corner by the terminal for a few hours a day. LOL

I mean people are trying to tell people at the bottom what they should be making and doing.
 
#272
#272
SpaceCoastVol said:
I would think presidential authority in a national crisis would cover it. The National Labor Relations Board would probably have the process. I know they did for us, and I would assume they would for the ILA.

I went to the NLRB website, and it will be under maintenance from Oct 4 thru October 7. What an interesting coincidence. LOL
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They have the authority to draft and force contracts on third parties? What's the purpose of a contract if you don't have a willing party? I have never heard of any such thing.

They might have powers to ask parties to come to together in some kind of manner, but they really can't force parties to a contract. That makes the contract meaningless. Furthermore, there is no guarantee the worker goes to work.
 
#273
#273
LSU-SIU said:
My mom was in the Teamsters, they went on strike... she would get her lawn chair and go out sit on the corner by the terminal for a few hours a day. LOL

I mean people are trying to tell people at the bottom what they should be making and doing.
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If disputes go to a strike, no one wins. Ever.

I agree with your last statement.
 
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#274
#274
SpaceCoastVol said:
If disputes go to a strike, no one wins. Ever.

I agree with your last statement.
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Like I said, not you... but others are using the same logic that I saw when the discussion was on this board 10-12 years ago about NCAA players making money. Everyone thought it was a great idea by them telling others what they should make and how they should make it. Completely bizarre.

We've had some small businesses around here, everyone just walks out. No union, they just all tell the company to **** off at the same time.

On a side note, here are some options the Ice Cream man has.... of course, I don't see how this solves anything.... not really. What happens if nobody shows up for work? I think they can terminate them, but they are still left without the labor.

Port strike update: Biden says he won't invoke 1947 law to try to suspend action
 
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