Prayers for So and So

#102
#102
n_huffhines said:
OK, but I don't really follow how prayer works in this regard. Say my Mom gets in a car crash and is in critical condition. God:

1 - hasn't decided what to do with my Mom and is waiting on prayers
2 - has decided what to do with my Mom, but enough prayers would change His mind
3 - has decided what to do with my Mom and praying won't affect the outcome
4 - some other explanation?

I just don't get the part where the line is drawn between something being God's will and something being the result of prayer.
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I believe that God's plan for you is what it is. His timing is perfect. Prayer will not change the outcome so to speak. I usually pray that God will give strength, guidance, comfort, and understanding to the person or family in need....and if it's his will, heal the person or touch the person in a way only he can.
 
#104
#104
VOLatile said:
Majority of medical professionals would agree with me...

Inb4 miracles.
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Actually, many medical professionals would agree that we have witnessed miracles and that our education and experience leave no other reasonable explanation than the existence and personal involvement of God.
 
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#105
#105
kiddiedoc said:
Actually, many medical professionals would agree that we have witnessed miracles and that our education and experience leave no other reasonable explanation than the existence and personal involvement of God.
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What about the opinions of medical professionals who have no vested interest in the existence of god? And which god?

Why is it that when someone says god spoke to them they're applauded but when someone says a dead relative (or something) did they're subjected to a psychiatric evaluation?

But let's go back to which god for a second. How do we determine which god performed these miracles? Are they actually miracles or are we just labeling things miracles because we don't yet understand why they happened?
 
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#106
#106
kiddiedoc said:
Actually, many medical professionals would agree that we have witnessed miracles and that our education and experience leave no other reasonable explanation than the existence and personal involvement of God.
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I'm genuinely interested if you really believe that absence of a known natural explanation is proof there isn't one.

Also, have you witnessed the other side of this? Something happening with a bad outcome with no known natural explanation?

I'm really not trying to start an argument, and I won't take this very far, just curious as to your thought process.
 
#107
#107
rjd970 said:
I'm genuinely interested if you really believe that absence of a known natural explanation is proof there isn't one.

Also, have you witnessed the other side of this? Something happening with a bad outcome with no known natural explanation?

I'm really not trying to start an argument, and I won't take this very far, just curious as to your thought process.
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You should check out Dr. Ben Carson.
 
#108
#108
Obsessed said:
Example?
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Primary teachings are adopted from older religions and called "christian."

"Christians" killing other "Christians" in the World Wars when Jesus taught that love would identify his followers.

Rampant amount of divorce among "Christians" when The Lord hates a divorcing. But gay marriage defiles the institution?

One "Christian" religion accepts homosexuals, another "Christian" religion condemns them to Hell.

Protection of pedophile priests.

Constant money grab and wretched excess of churches and leaders of mega churches when Jesus preaches, "received free, give free."

Etc. Etc. Etc.
 
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#110
#110
bamacheats said:
Primary teachings are adopted from older religions and called "christian."

"Christians" killing other "Christians" in the World Wars when Jesus taught that love would identify his followers.

Rampant amount of divorce among "Christians" when The Lord hates a divorcing. But gay marriage defiles the institution?

One "Christian" religion accepts homosexuals, another "Christian" religion condemns them to Hell.

Protection of pedophile priests.

Constant money grab and wretched excess of churches and leaders of mega churches when Jesus preaches, "received free, give free."

Etc. Etc. Etc.
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Seems your issues are with the church. Not Christianity.

Maybe you should stop walking on water yourself, and get down here with the rest of us... The water is fine.
 
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#111
#111
I'll say this. My grandmother was on her "death bed" at Emory and the Dr said that he was sorry and they had tried all they knew t do and she was going fast and wouldn't make it through the night. We all began to pray and reached out to friends and family asking them to pray. The Dr came out(I still say with tears in his eyes) saying that all of a sudden her #s started leveling out and stabilizing. He added that he felt like it was because of what we had been doing, not them.
 
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#112
#112
BigOrangeTrain said:
So it can be medically and scientifically proven that a person cannot have a conversation with God?

Ok provide proof of your statement. BTW I have seen many miracles, they do happen. But your entitled to your opinion.
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It doesn't work like that.

I can't prove you can't talk to Harry Carey either.
 
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#113
#113
jhen713 said:
I'll say this. My grandmother was on her "death bed" at Emory and the Dr said that he was sorry and they had tried all they knew t do and she was going fast and wouldn't make it through the night. We all began to pray and reached out to friends and family asking them to pray. The Dr came out(I still say with tears in his eyes) saying that all of a sudden her #s started leveling out and stabilizing. He added that he felt like it was because of what we had been doing, not them.
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Heaven is for real


Watch it when y'all have time
 
#114
#114
rjd970 said:
I'm genuinely interested if you really believe that absence of a known natural explanation is proof there isn't one.

Also, have you witnessed the other side of this? Something happening with a bad outcome with no known natural explanation.
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As to the former, of course not. My belief is not based in "proof" or science, but rather in faith, which is a gift from God. However, whether I look at the intricacies of molecular/cellular structure or to the expanse of the universe, there is nothing to refute the existence of a real, loving God.

In answer to your second question, certainly. We often dub that "natural causes," complications of x/y, or just idiopathic. I don't always understand why bad things happen, but in truth, I don't understand how God could offer us healing and salvation through the substitution of Christ's blood, either. The good news is that it isn't my job to comprehend His plan and would be foolish to think we could.
 
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#115
#115
Obsessed said:
Seems your issues are with the church. Not Christianity.
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I see a lot of that. In fact, I was turned off by some bad experiences in the church for many years. It has been relatively recently that God called me back, directed me to a church home, and answered some of my tough questions through readings, Bible study, sermons, and discussions with friends/believers.
 
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#116
#116
kiddiedoc said:
I see a lot of that. In fact, I was turned off by some bad experiences in the church for many years. It has been relatively recently that God called me back, directed me to a church home, and answered some of my tough questions through readings, Bible study, sermons, and discussions with friends/believers.
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Same for me.

He speaks. You just have to listen....
 
#117
#117
Obsessed said:
Seems your issues are with the church. Not Christianity.
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There are over 10,000 "christian" denominations, which one of those churches do I have the issue with?

Maybe you should stop walking on water yourself, and get down here with the rest of us... The water is fine.
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Quality retort by a "christian." :lol:
 
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#119
#119
Late to the thread but here's my view.

Background - I don't see God (Creator) as someone who monitors our daily lives. It'd be nice if we were made in his image but personally I think that's the conceit of man (or the inability to envision something not man-like). I see a creative force that is beyond the physical laws of nature that we scientifically understand.

That said, I can see that prayers for someone in need may actually have some impact via energies/powers/vibes/etc. In addition or alternatively it could be the recipient has a positive effect from knowing a group of people are vested in his/her wellbeing.

As to why if everybody prayers for good things for everybody why that doesn't work

1. We don't know it doesn't work - doubtful we as humans are all focusing our prayer energies on the entire scope of humanity.

OR

2. this force/energy/whatever may have rules as do natural laws whereby it cannot be (or cannot as easily be) focused on the whole of humanity the way it can on smaller units of humanity.

Anyway you slice it though I see no downside. The recipient feels less alone in their time of struggle and the givers are reminded of their humanity and the importance of being at least a bit unselfish and giving.
 
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#121
#121
bamacheats said:
If you can't logically explain the rampant hypocrisy in Christendom, I guess I am. Carry on.
:hi:
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Can you explain the rampant hypocrisy in mankind because it is present in all.

Dismissing God due to selected cases of hypocrisy in a particular religion is nuts IMHO.
 
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#122
#122
volinbham said:
Can you explain the rampant hypocrisy in mankind because it is present in all.
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Hypocrisy in mankind is easy, mankind is inherently selfish. However, we're talking about Christianity, not mankind. Christ called out hypocrites. Logically, he wouldn't approve of any denomination of Christianity that is hypocritical. Many "christians" like to point out legitimate criticisms as "attacks on Christianity!" then run away and hide.

Dismissing God due to selected cases of hypocrisy in a particular religion is nuts IMHO.
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Link to me dismissing God?
 
#123
#123
volinbham said:
Can you explain the rampant hypocrisy in mankind because it is present in all.

Dismissing God due to selected cases of hypocrisy in a particular religion is nuts IMHO.
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I was essentially thinking the same thing. It would seem somewhat illogical to look for reasons to run from something that one does not believe in.
 
#125
#125
bamacheats said:
Hypocrisy in mankind is easy, mankind is inherently selfish. However, we're talking about Christianity, not mankind. Christ called out hypocrites. Logically, he wouldn't approve of any denomination of Christianity that is hypocritical. Many "christians" like to point out legitimate criticisms as "attacks on Christianity!" then run away and hide.


Link to me dismissing God?
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If man is hypocritical then Christians are hypocritical since they are "man". Hardly seems like a damning criticism worthy of dismissing the entire religion.

Put another way - any group is hypocritical so all groups should be criticized as hypocrites? Where does that get us?

Shallow attack IMHO
 
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