Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

[MiramarVol]

If God knew all along that the Devil would rebel against him, and essentially this was part of his [God's] plan, then what are we to make of the Devil? What are we to make of God? Similarly, if we are all subject to God's will, then what do we do with something like free will, since we also seem to believe that human's make their own decisions?

That's the thing. God doesn't force us one way or the other, even though He could. We are like free agents. Able to make our own decisions. We eventually have to pay for the wrong decisions, when they go against God. That punishment may not be today, next week or next year. God is love. He wants us to obey His word and live a Holy and righteous life. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind. We get in trouble when we are disobedient, just like a child gets it from his parents. The consequences could be sickness, financial, or shorting of days on earth etc.

 

[volprof]

That's the thing. God doesn't force us one way or the other, even though He could. We are like free agents. Able to make our own decisions. We eventually have to pay for the wrong decisions, when they go against God. That punishment may not be today, next week or next year. God is love. He wants us to obey His word and live a Holy and righteous life. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind. We get in trouble when we are disobedient, just like a child gets it from his parents. The consequences could be sickness, financial, or shorting of days on earth etc.

So, in other words, we don't have free will? I'm confused.

 

[MiramarVol]

what religious group sponsors ut football?

Football is an event were Christians say a prayer. I used that event as an example. A similar event could be used for other religions, except Muslims don't have an event similar to football that I could use. You knew meaning but would rather be shallow and demeaning. It's cool, joke and make fun. It's your right. Right?

 

[volbeast33]

they recited the Lord's Prayer at the Florida game

I was at the game but didn't pay that close of attention to the prayer but they do have different denominations.....last yr one made me laugh when they were mentioning the spiders and insects during their prayer.

 

[SuperDave]

I was at the game but didn't pay that close of attention to the prayer but they do have different denominations.....last yr one made me laugh when they were mentioning the spiders and insects during their prayer.

lol one dude here prayed for lower gas prices before a honor society gathering. got a few chuckles from people in the audience. "jesus please lower these gas prices so more people are able to make it to church on sunday".

 

[volbeast33]

Whole lot of crying by (some) Christians going on in this thread. Baby want a tissue?

I for one am an athiest and don't care about the prayer at the game. I'm fine with or without it. I only started chiming in when I heard a bunch of ignorant rantings about athiests going to hell and leading to the decline of civilization.

I'm not a Christian....but really hate what America is becoming......everyone is offended by everything.....everyone's feelings are hurt over everything....grow a pair America.

 

[Ashevolle]

[/B]

My post wasn't quoted to anything you said. So, no I don't have you begged as carnal minded. You jumped on that grenade, since I have no reference to your name in that post.

No, your post said that the "carnal minded" were one and the same with nonbelievers. I'm telling you that I'm a nonbeliever. I jumped on no grenade, but simply filled in the gaps of your point. Therefore, I assume you consider me carnal minded. Carnal being defined as "concerned only with crude, base pleasures, perhaps you can see why that term seems insulting if directed at someone. I will take you at your word that you do not mean it as such. If you mean only that I'm only concerned with the ways of the "physical world", then i agree I do not believe that there is any supernatural cause for the universe. I don't deny that its possible, but simply that the evidence of such is underwhelming. If I have accept God without evidence to understand the spirit world, then I'll respectfully decline.

Also, I just learned that Football is actually a French Canadian invention started at McGill University in Montreal. That school apparently has no religious affiliation, so Football appears to be a secular sport.

 

[MiramarVol]

So, in other words, we don't have free will? I'm confused.

Free will to make decisions. That is free will. The choice between good and bad, right or wrong. That's free will. But for every action there's a reaction. Drinking cyanide is free will too. That's the action. Your death would be the Reaction.

 

[FriendlyGator]

My question to the atheists is why does it matter? No one is making you participate. Why is it that, generally speaking, you fight to make other people out to be stupid for their beliefs?

Why can't we all get along? You know, get around a campfire and sing Kumbaya?

 

[MiramarVol]

No, your post said that the "carnal minded" were one and the same with nonbelievers. I'm telling you that I'm a nonbeliever. I jumped on no grenade, but simply filled in the gaps of your point. Therefore, I assume you consider me carnal minded. Carnal being defined as "concerned only with crude, base pleasures, perhaps you can see why that term seems insulting if directed at someone. I will take you at your word that you do not mean it as such. If you mean only that I'm only concerned with the ways of the "physical world", then i agree I do not believe that there is any supernatural cause for the universe. I don't deny that its possible, but simply that the evidence of such is underwhelming. If I have accept God without evidence to understand the spirit world, then I'll respectfully decline.

Also, I just learned that Football is actually a French Canadian invention started at McGill University in Montreal. That school apparently has no religious affiliation, so Football appears to be a secular sport.

Carnal minded is concerned with the worldly desires, pleasures etc. Things of this world. To put the world values before heavenly values. Being Spiritually minded is to do the opposite. Being more in-tune to being obedient to God's word and way. Being humble and meek. Realizing that God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End.

 

[RealGoVols88]

If someone does not believe in God then why would it matter to them if someone was praying? They could laugh under their breath and think the rest of the people are stupid for believing. This is not about not believing in God this is about destroying Chritianity and trying to wipe ever reference of it away based on a fictitious separation of church and state.

 

[utvolpj]

If someone does not believe in God then why would it matter to them if someone was praying? They could laugh under their breath and think the rest of the people are stupid for believing. This is not about not believing in God this is about destroying Chritianity and trying to wipe ever reference of it away based on a fictitious separation of church and state.

not entirely fictitious and no one is trying to destroy Christianity

Football is an event were Christians say a prayer. I used that event as an example. A similar event could be used for other religions, except Muslims don't have an event similar to football that I could use. You knew meaning but would rather be shallow and demeaning. It's cool, joke and make fun. It's your right. Right?

people don't go to football because they are Christian. That's a really weak example

 

[MiramarVol]

Ashvolle, your unwillingness you believe and accept God for you He is, is why you would be considered carnal minded. Ok, you sit in a chair for the first time, but you Believe it will hold you up. You get on a plane, not knowing if it will crash, but you Believe it will get you where you're going. Same as an elevator, bridge etc. It's Faith. You don't have to see it to believe it. Hebrews 11:1 gives the definition of Faith. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." You haven't seen a pay check this week, but you have Faith it will be given to you or direct deposited in an account for you. You probably have Faith that we'll beat Akron too right? So, if you can have Faith in a win, why can't you have the very same Faith in God? Believe in Him for all your needs? Life is more calm, and things that upset you, don't bother you as much when you let God have His way in your life. Let His Word be a lamp to your feet and a Light to your path. I'm going to pray that God draws you and helps you understand or use me to bring more clarity to your Faith.

 

[MiramarVol]

not entirely fictitious and no one is trying to destroy Christianity



people don't go to football because they are Christian. That's a really weak example

Making up a quote that has nothing to do with what I said is a weak example. I said Muslims don't have an example close to football to use as a event or example of a time were a prayer is said. Don't twist a quote to make a mute point.

 

[utvolpj]

Making up a quote that has nothing to do with what I said is a weak example. I said Muslims don't have an example close to football to use as a event or example of a time were a prayer is said. Don't twist a quote to make a mute point.

Muslims don't enjoy football? I used to watch games with an Auburn fan that was a Muslim and he seemed quite sincere

 

[SCvol333]

My question to the atheists is why does it matter? No one is making you participate. Why is it that, generally speaking, you fight to make other people out to be stupid for their beliefs?

Why can't we all get along? You know, get around a campfire and sing Kumbaya?

maybe they don't want to waste their time, maybe they don't find the idea of adults believing in fairy tales appealing or maybe they just hate Kumbaya

seems to me the inverse would also be true - why does the Christian feel the need to put it over a loudspeaker - can an all powerful god not hear it if they whisper it, think it, or say it lowly prior to the game - is god so hard of hearing that it must be done over a loudspeaker?

why can't we just line it up and play football and the christians keep their praying to themselves

 

[MiramarVol]

Muslims don't enjoy football? I used to watch games with an Auburn fan that was a Muslim and he seemed quite sincere

The issue isn't if Muslims like or don't like football. The issue I was discussing was that the game isn't a Muslim event where the prayer was led my an Imam. You need read the context to understand fully. The poster said if a Muslim was praying at the game we would be upset.

 

[Ashevolle]

Ashvolle, your unwillingness you believe and accept God for you He is, is why you would be considered carnal minded. Ok, you sit in a chair for the first time, but you Believe it will hold you up. You get on a plane, not knowing if it will crash, but you Believe it will get you where you're going. Same as an elevator, bridge etc. It's Faith. You don't have to see it to believe it. Hebrews 11:1 gives the definition of Faith. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." You haven't seen a pay check this week, but you have Faith it will be given to you or direct deposited in an account for you. You probably have Faith that we'll beat Akron too right? So, if you can have Faith in a win, why can't you have the very same Faith in God? Believe in Him for all your needs? Life is more calm, and things that upset you, don't bother you as much when you let God have His way in your life. Let His Word be a lamp to your feet and a Light to your path. I'm going to pray that God draws you and helps you understand or use me to bring more clarity to your Faith.

I don't have faith that a plane will not crash if I get on it. I know that planes do crash. Instead, I assess the risk and accept that the likelihood of me dying is low and therefore risk my life in an effort to be able to get where I'm going.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

Just have an athiest pray to the flying spahgetti monster once a year and call it even.

 

[volunteernation16]

The issue isn't if Muslims like or don't like football. The issue I was discussing was that the game isn't a Muslim event where the prayer was led my an Imam. You need read the context to understand fully. The poster said if a Muslim was praying at the game we would be upset.

I fail to see how College Football is a Christian event

 

[Vercingetorix]

I didn't know that story and your post concerning it was very disturbing to me so I began doing some research on it and will continue to do so. One site I found is What about God’s cruelty against the Midianites if you are interested in reading it as well. I respect the views of others and appreciate those who are participating in this discussion. Goodnight all and Go Vols!

This is an incredibly well thought out and argued rationalization. But that's all it is. It's grasping for straws. His conclusion:

The Midianite parents would have been legally/ethically responsible for this situation falling upon their children—NOT the Israelites;

Ie, the Israelites are not responsible for killing all those thousands of children themselves because their parents were so awful. Okay.

The larger issue is that the angry, vengeful, blood-drunk God of the Old Testament is impossible to square with the "turn the other cheek" morality of the New Testament without jumping through a bunch of embarrassing intellectually dishonest logical hoops. And modern Christianity, at least the American Protestant kind, is deeply committed to the idea that the Bible is one complete infallible indivisible text. And it just doesn't work unless you cover your eyes and pretend that a bunch of stuff in the Old Testament doesn't exist.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Muslims don't enjoy football? I used to watch games with an Auburn fan that was a Muslim and he seemed quite sincere

Yes, President Obama enjoys watching football, so there is another example.

 

[MiramarVol]

maybe they don't want to waste their time, maybe they don't find the idea of adults believing in fairy tales appealing or maybe they just hate Kumbaya

seems to me the inverse would also be true - why does the Christian feel the need to put it over a loudspeaker - can an all powerful god not hear it if they whisper it, think it, or say it lowly prior to the game - is god so hard of hearing that it must be done over a loudspeaker?

why can't we just line it up and play football and the christians keep their praying to themselves

Why is praying over a loudspeaker all of a sudden a problem to everyone? God is Omniscient. He's not deaf, but I would say that there has been prayer at sporting events for the last 70-80 years easy. So, what's the problem today? Just curious? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Why is praying over a loudspeaker all of a sudden a problem to everyone? God is Omniscient. He's not deaf, but I would say that there has been prayer at sporting events for the last 70-80 years easy. So, what's the problem today? Just curious? I'll hang up and listen.

It is the internet......a tool of the devil!

 

[MiramarVol]

This is an incredibly well thought out and argued rationalization. But that's all it is. It's grasping for straws. His conclusion:



Ie, the Israelites are not responsible for killing all those thousands of children themselves because their parents were so awful. Okay.

The larger issue is that the angry, vengeful, blood-drunk God of the Old Testament is impossible to square with the "turn the other cheek" morality of the New Testament without jumping through a bunch of embarrassing intellectually dishonest logical hoops. And modern Christianity, at least the American Protestant kind, is deeply committed to the idea that the Bible is one complete infallible indivisible text. And it just doesn't work unless you cover your eyes and pretend that a bunch of stuff in the Old Testament doesn't exist.

Without the Old Testament, you don't have a New Testament. The purpose of the OT was to point the coming of Jesus, thus a new covenant. The Midianites, Amelikites, Edomites, and Canaanites etc. all were killed because they were worshiping other gods, and denying the commandments of God, while living unholy lives. Nothing more.