Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

#826
#826
PowerSweep said:
GOOD GRIEF...NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE EXTRAORDINARY.

even if you had "faith" that the opposite would happen...at least planes actually have crashed. I know it feels good to think you have an imaginary friend following you through life, but don't bring that crap to public forums, especially govt/public ones.

No need to be offended christians...just pray to yourself...making everyone else listen to that silliness infringes upon their rights.
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I would rather believe in a imaginary friend than that I use to be a monkey....go back and play with your little ape friends LOL
 
#827
#827
WinchesterVol said:
I am in a business thata witnesses horrible things everyday. I cannot answer why there is suffering in this world. But no matter what I will never question God. The whole question comes to down to freedom of religion. If the University of Tennessee wants to say a prayer before a football game, this is America, they have that right.

If you don't agree, you should respect the overwhelming majority that agrees with it. If not, well you can move to one of the 21 countries that hate America and burning our flag and cursing our country at this time.
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what if they want to have a 6-8 minute nondenominational devotional before the game...is that ok? Is that their right?
 
#828
#828
SCvol333 said:
I think a reread is in order - also note the word primer - the uncertainty principle in quantum is really the whole key - it doesnt limit the idea of there being the possibility of a God but it does limit what that God would be like - if you are okay with your God being basically a roulette player okay with any number of combinations/universes/worlds that could have come out of a Big Bang with no real connection to anything in it then you can still have a God

but i don't really think that is what most people and certainly not Christians mean when they mention the word God

EDIT...also he is one of the most intelligent people in human history so get the name right
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The uncertainty principal is a description of our inability to measure/know things. You are reading back into the equation our inability to measure and calling it His inability to plan.
 
#829
#829
SCvol333 said:
I think a reread is in order - also note the word primer - the uncertainty principle in quantum is really the whole key - it doesnt limit the idea of there being the possibility of a God but it does limit what that God would be like - if you are okay with your God being basically a roulette player okay with any number of combinations/universes/worlds that could have come out of a Big Bang with no real connection to anything in it then you can still have a God

but i don't really think that is what most people and certainly not Christians mean when they mention the word God

EDIT...also he is one of the most intelligent people in human history so get the name right
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I'm on mobile seeing my patients.....I could care less who he is but still does not change the fact they are all theories....he nor anyone else has proof the big bang theory ever happened.
 
#831
#831
volprof said:
The thing that gets me about the new covenant argument is that each covenant purports to be universal law. The fact of the matter is, however, you can't have two universal moral laws, even if they apply to different periods of human existence. By its very definition, a universal law applies to all time for everyone. Once a universal law is put in place, it cannot be changed. The new covenant argument implies that humans before Christ were held to a different standard than those after him. This doesn't make any sense to me, at least, and certainly doesn't sound fair.

And I know the rationalization for this new covenant: that we're humans and we don't understand the ways of God. Ok, fine.
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Jesus (New Covenant) didn't come to do away with the Law (Old Covenant), but to fulfill it.
 
#832
#832
PowerSweep said:
GOOD GRIEF...NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE EXTRAORDINARY.

even if you had "faith" that the opposite would happen...at least planes actually have crashed. I know it feels good to think you have an imaginary friend following you through life, but don't bring that crap to public forums, especially govt/public ones.

No need to be offended christians...just pray to yourself...making everyone else listen to that silliness infringes upon their rights.
Click to expand...

Don't start the name calling stuff. I don't like people calling God a imaginary friend or a fairy and other things like that. We didn't have this problem yesterday.
 
#834
#834
PowerSweep said:
GOOD GRIEF...NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE EXTRAORDINARY.

even if you had "faith" that the opposite would happen...at least planes actually have crashed. I know it feels good to think you have an imaginary friend following you through life, but don't bring that crap to public forums, especially govt/public ones.

No need to be offended christians...just pray to yourself...making everyone else listen to that silliness infringes upon their rights.
Click to expand...

I think freedom of speech and religion means that anyone can pray out loud whenever they wish. I believe that the establishment clause of the 1st amendment prohibits establishing a state religion. In order to do avoid erosion of that principal, the courts have found that the government cannot engage in acts that demonstrate such an establishment of a state religion. I've got no problem with evangelicals preaching on the street as loud as they want. I just don't think it should be sponsored by the government. These safeguards insure that we don't end up a Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Satanist/(whatever the majority religion may be) nation.
 
#836
#836
volbeast33 said:
I'm on mobile seeing my patients.....I could care less who he is but still does not change the fact they are all theories....he nor anyone else has proof the big bang theory ever happened.
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Same with all religious assertions, so it appears we're all at an impasse.
 
#838
#838
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Not Everyone is religious. I don't see why it's a big deal. I'm not religious but the prayer doesn't bother me so I don't why it should bother everyone else who is religious if they had a moment of silence instead. Pray then.
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perfect -- i dont understand aethist agenda

If you do not believe why do you even care ??

agendas....that is why

I always tell them if they are right then we all just die and so be it --- however if you are wrong then I would hate to be you........

the ten commandments is not a bad way to live your life regardless ...

anyway im about sick of this crap..........read today the gooberment sent 153 mill to AIG to set up Sharia-compliant accounts....where are the aethist on this?
 
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#839
#839
WinchesterVol said:
I am in a business thata witnesses horrible things everyday. I cannot answer why there is suffering in this world. But no matter what I will never question God. The whole question comes to down to freedom of religion. If the University of Tennessee wants to say a prayer before a football game, this is America, they have that right.

If you don't agree, you should respect the overwhelming majority that agrees with it. If not, well you can move to one of the 21 countries that hate America and burning our flag and cursing our country at this time.
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Unsurprisingly, you have a very poor understanding of how our system of government works.
 
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#842
#842
Gatorbait22 said:
perfect -- i dont understand aethist agenda

If you do not believe why do you even care ??

agendas....that is why

I always tell them if they are right then we all just die and so be it --- however if you are wrong then.........

the ten commandments is not a bad way to live your life regardless ...

anyway im about sick of this crap..........read today the gooberment sent 153 mill to AIG to set up Sharia-compliant accounts....where are the aethist on this?
Click to expand...

It's not an athiest agenda. Its a nonchristian agenda. Many athiests don't care. Many muslims/jews/hindus/etc. don't care. However some of each of these groups do care, so its their collective agenda. Same as the people sponsoring the prayer have their agenda to hold the game hostage for a few minutes to have a group prayer.
 
#843
#843
Ashevolle said:
Agreed, to a point. It exceeds out understanding of physics. Therefore, I'm sure our model of the natural world will shift if we gain a higher understanding of the laws of nature. If by supernatural, you mean beyond our current understanding, I'll accept that, however, I would define that as still being part of the natural world and defined by science (just a science we don't fully understand).

In the end, I'm just not satisfied that because we understand everything to have a beginning that that means that God must be the beginning. That conclusion does not fix the inherent problem, but creates a convenient solution unsupported by data. If the fact that everything comes from something is supposed to mean there is a God, then it doesn't excuse the contradiction that God too must have come from something. If God didn't have to come from something, then why does the universe/multiverse have to come from something?
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I am defining 'supernatural' as that which resides outside of our nature. For the context of this conversation, I am not smuggling in any religious overtones. just what is outside of nature.

By definition, an alternate universe is outside of the nature of this universe. We will never be able to study what is outside of our universe, so it is a greater problem than "our understanding of physics". It will be inherently untestable, by definition.

If I made the statement that God "must" be at the beginning, then I apologize for misrepresenting my point. The question was asked, "If God made the universe, then who made God?" I was merely showing the philosophical reason that that is a non-question.

I did make the explicit inference that all of nature is dependent on the existence on something "supernatural". That is why I tried to be very specific about what I meant by that term.

I would never deem to try to prove the existence of God. It is a matter of reasonable faith. My opinion is that He is the best answer to reality as we know it.

:hi:
 
#844
#844
Gatorbait22 said:
perfect -- i dont understand aethist agenda

If you do not believe why do you even care ??

agendas....that is why

I always tell them if they are right then we all just die and so be it --- however if you are wrong then.........

the ten commandments is not a bad way to live your life regardless ...

anyway im about sick of this crap..........read today the gooberment sent 153 mill to AIG to set up Sharia-compliant accounts....where are the aethist on this?
Click to expand...

My issue here is that the state and any state organization ought to be purely secular in nature. There is no need to promote any religion by a public institution.
 
#845
#845
volbeast33 said:
That's why I'm not sure what I believe right now.
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Nothing wrong with that, so long as you enjoy your time here and treat others with respect, imo.

Some people on both sides of the issue could gain from having a little more respect.
 
#847
#847
volbeast33 said:
I'm not religious and I don't believe in evolution in that sense.....I'm am honestly open and not sure what I believe but we did not come from monkeys.
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You're not aware of all of the other human like species that evolved from apes over time? If you are a medical doctor that is embarrassing.

In what "sense" DO you believe in evolution?
 
#848
#848
Orange_Crush said:
I am defining 'supernatural' as that which resides outside of our nature. For the context of this conversation, I am not smuggling in any religious overtones. just what is outside of nature.

By definition, an alternate universe is outside of the nature of this universe. We will never be able to study what is outside of our universe, so it is a greater problem than "our understanding of physics". It will be inherently untestable, by definition.

If I made the statement that God "must" be at the beginning, then I apologize for misrepresenting my point. The question was asked, "If God made the universe, then who made God?" I was merely showing the philosophical reason that that is a non-question.

I did make the explicit inference that all of nature is dependent on the existence on something "supernatural". That is why I tried to be very specific about what I meant by that term.

I would never deem to try to prove the existence of God. It is a matter of reasonable faith. My opinion is that He is the best answer to reality as we know it.

:hi:
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I respect that, but I shy away from saying never. Perhaps we can observe other universes with advances in technology. Who knows. That's what makes science and advancement fascinating.
 
#850
#850
volbeast33 said:
You are a very angry sounding person....don't act for a second like you know anything about the bible or what god says or does.
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I was brought up in a conservative Christian church. I've read the Bible cover to cover, most of it several times. I'll put my knowledge of it up with 90 percent of your average American churchgoers.

I'm not angry at all. I became much happier about life once I realize that God didn't have to be tied to all the vengeance and cruelty in the Bible.

The angriest people in this thread are the ones defending their religion of love and peace.
 
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