Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

#901
#901
Orange_Crush said:
I am very aware of how those conclusions are reached. Are you?

Explain the underlying assumptions made by carbon dating.

You're basically measuring the amount of carbon left in something and based on half life assigning an age to it

Explain the underlying assumptions made by rock strata dating.

That older layers are below newer layers and that by using decay of certain materials you can tell how long the layers go back

Having done so, we'll take up the conversation once again, and you can defend your position on the facts of the age of the earth, the dates when dinosaurs and neanderthals lived.

Again, I'm agnostic on the whole business. It's not important enough to me to be lathered up about it one way or the other.
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Is it so hard to answer how old you think the earth is? You've never considered an opinion? Come on...
 
#904
#904
Orange_Crush said:
I think you missed my point. I apologize and will try to make it clearer, and be more specific.

The OT covenants were specific to certain people for certain times. For instance, before the flood, mankind ate vegetarian diets. After the flood, mankind was given meat to eat. Israel was given specific "clean" meats they could eat.

This would be similar to me, as a father, saying:

To a 2 year old son... Sure thing, I'll let you lay in the play pen with a girl your age.

To my 7 year old son. OK. Feel free to sleep over with your female friend from school.

To my 16 year old son... No way in heck you are sleeping over with your girlfriend.

(Simply stated, different rules for different times)

Jesus said that Israel had misinterpreted the law. Paul taught that the law was given to prove that we could not keep it. It was a mirror to show us our dirty faces. It was a doctor that gave us the terminal results.

Having seen our sinfulness from the law, we turn to God's grace through faith in Christ to save us. We then too turn to Christ to wash our faces and help us wash our faces by keeping the "perfect law" by loving God and loving our neighbor "upon which all of the law and the prophets hang".

Hope this clarifies.
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Of all the champions of faith on here, I'll have to say you have done the best job, but, no, it still doesn't add up for me. Your analogy was well-thought-out, but I fail to see exactly how it applies to something like our transition from Mosaic to Christian law. Anyhow, we'll move one.
 
#905
#905
TheTennesseeTom said:
I most certainly will. I Love and Enjoy Tennessee football. Heck even named my son Neyland. But at some point society has to quit caving into every little group that gets offended (mostly for political or media gain). Our freedoms are just that, freedoms. Our country, however, was founded on the values of a Christian nation. It is ok to hold true the values our for-fathers held dear.If you want to live as an American Citizen, please do so, yet do so with the understanding you can worship Buddah, Allah, Darwin, or whoever you choose because you live here in the land of the free. During the prayer that is held you are free pray to your gods, idols, or not at all...but don't be offended and don't expect the core values of a nation to change on your behalf.
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I don't think our country was founded on Christian values.
 
#906
#906
Orange_Crush said:
Funny that Christians are the ones call intolerant, overbearing and too prone to claim themselves the harbingers of absolute truth... :eek:lol:
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Truth. I'm a Christian, but it's called "faith" for a reason. Do I have any definitive proof? No. It's why I don't really get into these debates because it usually turns into hostile people on both sides of the fence making asses of themselves.
 
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#907
#907
PowerSweep said:
this shows you don't really understand how evolution works...we evolved from common ancestors (not the species that exist TODAY) through random mutations and natural selection as did monkeys, chimpanzees, orangutans, etc...populations that are separated would evolve differently.
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Evolution is something that takes point and skips ahead to point e without worrying about the necessary proof....one hole has already been shot in their theory when they found homosapiens several thousand years earlier than neanderthals
 
#909
#909
volunteernation16 said:
I cannot believe there are still people that do not believe in evolution.[/QUOTE/]

For those that believe in evolution, feel free. But the scientific world governs itself on what can be proven...Never in our lifetime, nor through the documentation of or history has there ever been a documented case of one species evolving into another. The "Missing Link" is due to the fact that God created man in his likeness. We as humans are a special species. There is no evolution from one species to the next. Specific species may adapt physically to there environment over years, but never will they evolve into a different species...I'll choose to believe that God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is the truth because he said so. His stories were witnessed as true. God made you so that you have free will to believe as you wish. He promised those of us that proclaim him god an eternity beyond belief! I'll take that over evolution any day!
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#910
#910
TheTennesseeTom said:
I most certainly will. I Love and Enjoy Tennessee football. Heck even named my son Neyland. But at some point society has to quit caving into every little group that gets offended (mostly for political or media gain). Our freedoms are just that, freedoms. Our country, however, was founded on the values of a Christian nation. It is ok to hold true the values our for-fathers held dear.If you want to live as an American Citizen, please do so, yet do so with the understanding you can worship Buddah, Allah, Darwin, or whoever you choose because you live here in the land of the free. During the prayer that is held you are free pray to your gods, idols, or not at all...but don't be offended and don't expect the core values of a nation to change on your behalf.
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This guy's on your side. Just wanted to throw that out there.
 
#911
#911
volunteernation16 said:
I cannot believe there are still people that do not believe in evolution.
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you can't really deny dinosaurs because then you're left with the silly argument that god put the bones in there as a test...too stupid even for the average christian to rationalize.

But I kid you not my buddy's next door neighbor believes humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth together...that just shows a basic shutting off of inquisitive thought, and it's pretty typical.

Much the same as crush trying to act as if radiocarbon or radiometric dating is something other than settled science.
 
#912
#912
volbeast33 said:
Evolution is something that takes point and skips ahead to point e without worrying about the necessary proof....one hole has already been shot in their theory when they found homosapiens several thousand years earlier than neanderthals
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how did that blow a hole in their theory?
 
#914
#914
I am very aware of how those conclusions are reached. Are you?

Explain the underlying assumptions made by carbon dating.

You're basically measuring the amount of carbon left in something and based on half life assigning an age to it

Explain the underlying assumptions made by rock strata dating.

That older layers are below newer layers and that by using decay of certain materials you can tell how long the layers go back

Having done so, we'll take up the conversation once again, and you can defend your position on the facts of the age of the earth, the dates when dinosaurs and neanderthals lived.

Again, I'm agnostic on the whole business. It's not important enough to me to be lathered up about it one way or the other.
Click to expand...

A bit incomplete. I asked you to explain the assumptions made in each-- which you failed to include.

Radiocarbon dating assumes (1) the amount of carbon in the fossil/rock being tested, (2) the ratio of C12 and C14 in the atmosphere at the time of the sample, and (3) that the decay rate of C14 has remained static over time.

The dating of rock strata, as you alluded to, makes assumptions based on procedures that make assumptions. In other words, RCD is used to date rock strata, which are used to date RCD.

PowerSweep said:
Is it so hard to answer how old you think the earth is? You've never considered an opinion? Come on...
Click to expand...

I truly don't know. I'm simply stating that I believe the procedures used to establish long eons are flawed and your best way of defending an old earth is appeal to authority.
 
#915
#915
TheTennesseeTom said:
volunteernation16 said:
I cannot believe there are still people that do not believe in evolution.[/QUOTE/]

For those that believe in evolution, feel free. But the scientific world governs itself on what can be proven...Never in our lifetime, nor through the documentation of or history has there ever been a documented case of one species evolving into another. The "Missing Link" is due to the fact that God created man in his likeness. We as humans are a special species. There is no evolution from one species to the next. Specific species may adapt physically to there environment over years, but never will they evolve into a different species...I'll choose to believe that God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is the truth because he said so. His stories were witnessed as true. God made you so that you have free will to believe as you wish. He promised those of us that proclaim him god an eternity beyond belief! I'll take that over evolution any day!
Click to expand...

Evolution takes place over long periods of time so you aren't going to see it in your lifetime.

So if the prayer turns into a moment of silence this saturday or at some point down the line you'll not post here and turn in your tickets? You said your support and money were gone so just wondering
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#916
#916
volprof said:
Of all the champions of faith on here, I'll have to say you have done the best job, but, no, it still doesn't add up for me. Your analogy was well-thought-out, but I fail to see exactly how it applies to something like our transition from Mosaic to Christian law. Anyhow, we'll move one.
Click to expand...

Thank you. It is always a pleasure discussing such things in a civil manner. I apologize for not being able to explain it better.

Note that the analogy was not meant as a correlation; just as an illustration of the concept that different instructions can be given for different purposes without being (a) universal, or (b) conflicting.

:good!:
 
#917
#917
Pray for this

Bra-Pullup1.gif
 
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#918
#918
Orange_Crush said:
A bit incomplete. I asked you to explain the assumptions made in each-- which you failed to include.

Radiocarbon dating assumes (1) the amount of carbon in the fossil/rock being tested, (2) the ratio of C12 and C14 in the atmosphere at the time of the sample, and (3) that the decay rate of C14 has remained static over time.

The dating of rock strata, as you alluded to, makes assumptions based on procedures that make assumptions. In other words, RCD is used to date rock strata, which are used to date RCD.



I truly don't know. I'm simply stating that I believe the procedures used to establish long eons are flawed and your best way of defending an old earth is appeal to authority.
Click to expand...

What percentage of geologists would you reckon share your view that this is not settled science as far as its accuracy? I was taught all the same garbage in my little church of christ sunday school about how it was very inaccurate and so forth...it's settled science.
 
#919
#919
TheTennesseeTom said:
So all the references to God which include our currency, pledge, constitution, etc. are just there by coincidence..ok.
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Nowhere does the Constitution say "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus, Christianity, Bible, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution, not even once.
The founding fathers were not even Christians. "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
Treaty of Tripoli, submitted to the Senate by Pres. John Adams, receiving unanimous ratification in 1797
 
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#920
#920
TheTennesseeTom said:
So all the references to God which include our currency, pledge, constitution, etc. are just there by coincidence..ok.
Click to expand...

Your argument seems to be that we should continue doing things the way we do because that's how they were done when the country was founded. Correct me if I'm wrong here, I don't want to misunderstand. I agree that everyone has the freedom to worship as they please (or not at all). What I don't understand is why it is a bad thing to change to a moment of silence. Yeah, maybe people shouldn't be so easily offended (it's pretty stupid), but why provide the opportunity for one to be offended when you can easily provide the appropriate time for anybody to do as they please in a moment of silence? The specific reference to the Christian God may appeal to the majority, but let the others have their say as well. I think it would be fine for individuals at the game to lead prayer out loud, so long as it is not through the AD/University/whatever. Let the fans do what they want, but allow everyone equal opportunity instead of forcing one thing on everyone.
 
#921
#921
PowerSweep said:
TheTennesseeTom said:
Evolution takes place over long periods of time so you aren't going to see it in your lifetime.

So if the prayer turns into a moment of silence this saturday or at some point down the line you'll not post here and turn in your tickets? You said your support and money were gone so just wondering
Click to expand...

Yes sir, you are right! By the way, there is no mention of recorded evolution in history! And there won't be...The Missing Link is the fact that all is Gods creation. Go Vols!
Click to expand...
 
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#922
#922
TheTennesseeTom said:
So all the references to God which include our currency, pledge, constitution, etc. are just there by coincidence..ok.
Click to expand...

know your history...put their on coins and pledge in 1950's by anti communist mccarthyites

And the word god is not in the constitution so what the heck are you talking about?
 
#923
#923
PowerSweep said:
you can't really deny dinosaurs because then you're left with the silly argument that god put the bones in there as a test...too stupid even for the average christian to rationalize.

But I kid you not my buddy's next door neighbor believes humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth together...that just shows a basic shutting off of inquisitive thought, and it's pretty typical.

Much the same as crush trying to act as if radiocarbon or radiometric dating is something other than settled science.
Click to expand...

So, wait a minute... By my remaining agnostic on assumptions about a non-repeatable process... By failing to come to a definitive opinion, I am "shutting off inquisitive thought"...?

That's rich. lol I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
 
#925
#925
PowerSweep said:
know your history...put their on coins and pledge in 1950's by anti communist mccarthyites

And the word god is not in the constitution so what the heck are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Wow, you're right. I found a copy online, did a search for God, god, and creator, and nothing came up.
 
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