Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

#1,176
#1,176
I wrote a long follow up to your previous question but it won't let me post it. Tried everything I know to do, not sure what the problem is. If this goes through I'll try a new one.
 
#1,177
#1,177
utvolpj said:
which is fine. I would rather take what I have now and look for answers than just assume they were all written down a couple thousand years ago and that's that.
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I would rather investigate the testimonies that actually claim the ability to make truth claims, as opposed to follow those who claim that they can't make truth claims. The Bible has been the best I've found. We can agree to disagree.

utvolpj said:
the only thing that's consistent is that man wrote and manipulated the Bible to its current version.
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The Bible is the best attested literary work in the history of humanity. The fact that we have so many ancient copies to study, from such a long period of ancient history, and from so many disparate locales, is pretty much a guarantee that it has not been manipulated.

As a matter of fact, if I were a supreme being wanting to reveal my testimony over an extended period of time, in such a way that it couldn't be manipulated, while still allowing plausible deniability for those choosing not to follow it, I couldn't imagine a better way to do it.

utvolpj said:
All you are doing is using the book to prove itself which really doesn't work.
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Is that another way to say that I am studying what it says about itself to come to a proper understanding? If so, thank you. If not, you've missed all the times in this thread that I've said:

I am not trying to prove God.
I am merely trying to show Christianity as an internally consistent worldview.

:hi:
 
#1,179
#1,179
Morpheus said:
I wrote a long follow up to your previous question but it won't let me post it. Tried everything I know to do, not sure what the problem is. If this goes through I'll try a new one.
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Yo, that's cool. Don't bother if it becomes trouble to do so. I always enjoy discussion, but it's not that big of a deal, and I'm not here to argue just to argue. :)

I'm all good with where you are and hope you better understand where I am coming from. If we can both say that, then I say: "Well done." :hi:
 
#1,180
#1,180
Orange_Crush said:
I would rather investigate the testimonies that actually claim the ability to make truth claims, as opposed to follow those who claim that they can't make truth claims. The Bible has been the best I've found. We can agree to disagree.



The Bible is the best attested literary work in the history of humanity. The fact that we have so many ancient copies to study, from such a long period of ancient history, and from so many disparate locales, is pretty much a guarantee that it has not been manipulated.

As a matter of fact, if I were a supreme being wanting to reveal my testimony over an extended period of time, in such a way that it couldn't be manipulated, while still allowing plausible deniability for those choosing not to follow it, I couldn't imagine a better way to do it.



Is that another way to say that I am studying what it says about itself to come to a proper understanding? If so, thank you. If not, you've missed all the times in this thread that I've said:

I am not trying to prove God.
I am merely trying to show Christianity as an internally consistent worldview.

:hi:
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all you basically said is that you believe man's view of God. There is nothing else to go on. You can study the Bible all you want but it is still man's view wrapped around historical events
 
#1,182
#1,182
utvolpj said:
all you basically said is that you believe man's view of God. There is nothing else to go on. You can study the Bible all you want but it is still man's view wrapped around historical events
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Add in there that I stated that the Bible is a better place to turn than a guy on the internet that makes the self-defeating claim that he is not qualified to speak on the matter? :)
 
#1,187
#1,187
Orange_Crush said:
Did you see my follow-up post? I'm not saying you need to believe the Bible. But did you see the connection from NT to OT that actually correlated the points?

Obviously, feel free to consider it a reach; I just wanted you to know where I reached from, and to...
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Ok I'll try this one more time. Briefly, while I agree the tabernacle scriptures you quoted are symbolic of something of greater spiritual significance, I think limiting it to the person of Jesus doesn't do it justice. Isn't it just as possible that Jesus' role as mediator also is symbolic of that greater truth? Especially in light of his own words stating..."know ye not that ye are gods?" (I know he was quoting also), and "all that I do, you can do also", and "the kingdom of heaven is within you". Could it be that his role as mediator was metaphorical, and that the true temple and holy of holies is within the human body? Where was he when he was crucified?
 
#1,190
#1,190
back to the real topic:

of course that organization is based in madison, wi...all they do in that town is b**** and moan about any and every little "issue." How in the hell are they hurt if fans pray at neyland stadium?

look, im all for separation of church and state, it has absolutely no place in politics and much of today's world discussions (in fact, religion is a major catalyst for unnecessary controversy as so excellently exhibited here in this thread)...but this is east tennessee

id guess at least 90-95% of the people in attendance are either baptist, lutheran, or methodist (and probably would not be too far off). The "clergyman" does say jesus christ, so what? if it really bothers anyone that much then don't pray or simply think of your own prayer...in no way, shape, or form does any other religion become demeaned if jc is mentioned

o and i find it hilarious that there are people in this thread taking religion waaaaaaay too far...silly me for assuming this thread would still be on topic 80+ pages in
 
#1,192
#1,192
Morpheus said:
Ok I'll try this one more time. Briefly, while I agree the tabernacle scriptures you quoted are symbolic of something of greater spiritual significance, I think limiting it to the person of Jesus doesn't do it justice. Isn't it just as possible that Jesus' role as mediator also is symbolic of that greater truth? Especially in light of his own words stating..."know ye not that ye are gods?" (I know he was quoting also), and "all that I do, you can do also", and "the kingdom of heaven is within you". Could it be that his role as mediator was metaphorical, and that the true temple and holy of holies is within the human body? Where was he when he was crucified?
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last thing i'm trying to do is get into this "debate" or whatever it is...

but isn't the fact that jc died on the cross, like the whole point of christianity?
 
#1,194
#1,194
Orange_Crush said:
If I offended you, I sincerely apologize.
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Nah, I can assure you that didn't happen. I just find discussions quoting scripture or the Bible aren't usually worth having unless you truly believe them. I'm fine when discussing the division between it and govt but should have known it would go further. I shouldn't have jumped in at all
 
#1,195
#1,195
VolBadger said:
last thing i'm trying to do is get into this "debate" or whatever it is...

but isn't the fact that jc died on the cross, like the whole point of christianity?
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yes.

Edit: To clarify, I am a big fan of the Bible, but do not claim to be Christian. The Bible has many layers of spiritual truth, but its literal interpretation is only for children. JMO.
 
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#1,196
#1,196
utvolpj said:
Nah, I can assure you that didn't happen. I just find discussions quoting scripture or the Bible aren't usually worth having unless you truly believe them. I'm fine when discussing the division between it and govt but should have known it would go further. I shouldn't have jumped in at all
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gonna stop now so that doesn't happen to me :thumbsup:
 
#1,197
#1,197
Jackson_Harris said:
Your current president. I think I heard that somewhere
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Really, WOW the president of all americans is Muslum? Many times I have heard him say he is a Christian, maybe he is lying? I dont think so, but now that I think of it, does it matter? Christian, Muslum, Hindu, Catholic, Baptist, Jew. As long as they defend the constitiution, that is all I care about. :thumbsup:
 
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#1,198
#1,198
Morpheus said:
Ok I'll try this one more time. Briefly, while I agree the tabernacle scriptures you quoted are symbolic of something of greater spiritual significance, I think limiting it to the person of Jesus doesn't do it justice. Isn't it just as possible that Jesus' role as mediator also is symbolic of that greater truth? Especially in light of his own words stating..."know ye not that ye are gods?" (I know he was quoting also), and "all that I do, you can do also", and "the kingdom of heaven is within you". Could it be that his role as mediator was metaphorical, and that the true temple and holy of holies is within the human body? Where was he when he was crucified?
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That's a great question Morpheus.

Jesus there is answering the Jews that wanted to kill him for "making himself as God." Jesus quoted Ps 82:7 as a response. Ps 82:7 calls the unjust judge of Israel "god's". This is a Hebrew word translated also as "judge" elsehwere in the OT (Exodus 21:6, 22:8). Note that both Exodus and Psalms 82 indicate that the unjust judges (gods) will die, so obviously the Bible wasn't comparing the gods (little g) to God (Big G).

The term judge/god (elohim) was used as a descriptive for one who was put in office to speak for God. These were arguments against those who were abusing that power.

So, what Jesus was saying here was: "You are called gods (as God). How much greater should I be viewed as God's messenger, with the miraculous signs that prove my office?"

Hebrews spoke of Christ literally as our mediator between God and man. Scripture extends this to say that there is only one mediator between God and Man, the man-God Jesus Christ. Christ, Himself, said that there is only one way to the Father, through Him.

The kingdom of God is within us. His Spirit has been left to indwell us. Jesus said that Spirit would flow from within us like torrents of "Living Water". (As such, in a way this makes each Christian the temple of God as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians. But this doesn't change that the author of Hebrews described a literal heavenly temple, which the OT tabernacle was patterned off of.)

The church is left as God's kingdom of earth. Sadly, we often do a poor job of it these days.
 
#1,199
#1,199
utvolkyle06 said:
Really, WOW the president of all americans is Muslum? Many times I have heard him say he is a Christian, maybe he is lying? I dont think so, but now that I think of it, does it matter? Christian, Muslum, Hindu, Catholic, Baptist, Jew. As long as they defend the constitiution, that is all I care about. :thumbsup:
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add in a good economy and im with you.
 
#1,200
#1,200
utvolpj said:
Nah, I can assure you that didn't happen. I just find discussions quoting scripture or the Bible aren't usually worth having unless you truly believe them. I'm fine when discussing the division between it and govt but should have known it would go further. I shouldn't have jumped in at all
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I would actually agree. I was merely explaining the internal consistency of the message when compared to itself. Wasn't trying to prove the veracity of the Bible by the Bible.

Still friends? (er... Internet acquaintances that have absolutely no bearing on one another's life?) lol
 
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