Premiere League & World Soccer Thread

#6,851
#6,851
bleedorange0037 said:
There’s no reason for every club to run out their (mostly) first team in every game. This is supposedly why teams have academies. Give those guys a run out, prioritize competitions.

The point about more and more international games creeping onto the calendar is valid, and that also probably extends to the potential of expanding the CL. However, the clubs are playing fewer games than ever domestically. FA Cup replays have all but been done away with once PL teams get involved, League Cup semifinals are moving to a single game next year as opposed to two legs.
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Most clubs do play the kids in the Caribou and FA cup matches. They only play top squads (minus keeper and a few others) when they start reaching the quarters and semi's. There is discussion of making the World Cup every other year.
 
#6,854
#6,854
Nash_Vol97 said:
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They’re making tens of thousands of dollars every week (some of them hundreds of thousands)?? If I was ever good enough to find myself playing professional soccer (or any major sport) for a living, I would consider myself extremely fortunate.

I get that fixture fatigue is primarily due to owners and organizations trying to bring in more revenue and that’s powered by selfish greed rather than an attempt to improve the sport, but it’s still an individual decision on the part of the player. No one is holding them at gunpoint and forcing them to do this. Maybe they should have their agents start negotiating minute-limits-per-week into their contracts.

As for me, I know I wouldn’t hesitate very long when deciding whether or not to sacrifice my body for that kind of money. If I could hang on for a few years, I’d be set for life. Hard deal to pass up even if I walk away with lasting injuries. At least I’d be able to afford a good doctor.
 
#6,856
#6,856
Outofmyvolcanmind said:
Most clubs do play the kids in the Caribou and FA cup matches. They only play top squads (minus keeper and a few others) when they start reaching the quarters and semi's. There is discussion of making the World Cup every other year.
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I can’t remember the competition but Villa once ran out an academy team against Liverpools first team in one of those cups because they didn’t have the depth due to COVID
 
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#6,859
#6,859
Power T-Rev said:
Cole Palmer looking like a steal from Man City. Too bad Tod Boehly is determined to run my Chelsea into the ground
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I’m less worried about Todd himself and more about the people he’s put in place. Not a fan of the co-directors. The strategy the last two windows of only signing under 25 players with lots of potential/talent was a poor idea. We needed to refresh the squad and get rid of quite a few dead weight contracts, they did well at that, but they replaced those players with young kids with little experience. There is loads of talent in the squad but most of them will need 1-2 years before we consistently see that talent week in and week out. Hopefully a few more blossom earlier like Palmer is but he’s been the exception not the rule so far. In the end though, that circles back to Boehly as he put the co-directors there and approved of the plan. So he definitely shares the blame in this.
 
#6,861
#6,861
Charlie Kelly said:
They’re making tens of thousands of dollars every week (some of them hundreds of thousands)?? If I was ever good enough to find myself playing professional soccer (or any major sport) for a living, I would consider myself extremely fortunate.

I get that fixture fatigue is primarily due to owners and organizations trying to bring in more revenue and that’s powered by selfish greed rather than an attempt to improve the sport, but it’s still an individual decision on the part of the player. No one is holding them at gunpoint and forcing them to do this. Maybe they should have their agents start negotiating minute-limits-per-week into their contracts.

As for me, I know I wouldn’t hesitate very long when deciding whether or not to sacrifice my body for that kind of money. If I could hang on for a few years, I’d be set for life. Hard deal to pass up even if I walk away with lasting injuries. At least I’d be able to afford a good doctor.
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I’d probably have the same view was you when it comes to the money, but that wont be how the players view it. Just getting a few years of good money and then being done with it isn’t what they want. They want to play 10-15-20 year careers and to continue to make good money throughout. The more games they play the less the length of their career probably ends up being.

As for the fatigue and what they can do about it I do agree that they can’t have more personal responsibility there. Managers have more responsibility, IMO. It’s just hard for any player to play from August to April/May and then they have international cups and competitions during the summer most years now. On top of that competitions like the CL, Club World Cup, and other cups are also expanding bringing more games. The workload is getting heavier and heavier every year. It’s a lot.
 
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#6,863
#6,863
Wow. I didn’t get to watch but saw Arsenal were up 1-0 earlier. Fulham scores 2 and wins it. Big 180 from their last 2 games where they lost a combined 5-0 between Burnley and Bournemouth.
 
#6,864
#6,864
Nash_Vol97 said:
I’d probably have the same view was you when it comes to the money, but that wont be how the players view it. Just getting a few years of good money and then being done with it isn’t what they want. They want to play 10-15-20 year careers and to continue to make good money throughout. The more games they play the less the length of their career probably ends up being.

As for the fatigue and what they can do about it I do agree that they can’t have more personal responsibility there. Managers have more responsibility, IMO. It’s just hard for any player to play from August to April/May and then they have international cups and competitions during the summer most years now. On top of that competitions like the CL, Club World Cup, and other cups are also expanding bringing more games. The workload is getting heavier and heavier every year. It’s a lot.
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Oh I’m not arguing that it isn’t getting ridiculous for the players. They’ve been upping the number of fixtures almost continuously for the past couple of decades (at least in England, not sure about everywhere else). It’s why I definitely applaud them for organizing together to make their voice heard. I think ‘minute-limits’ clauses could be inserted into contracts if players and agents stood together and made it clear this is something they wanted.

However, from a broader point of view, I was just pointing out the obvious that most of us would feel extremely fortunate if we were in their positions. If fixture fatigue happened to be one of my biggest complaints in life, I’d say I was doing pretty well. Their pay is roughly 100x more than the average citizen of whatever country they’re playing in. Most people would sacrifice quite a bit for that kind of money, especially to play the most popular sport in the world and be potentially idolized by millions.
 
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#6,865
#6,865
Charlie Kelly said:
Oh I’m not arguing that it isn’t getting ridiculous for the players. They’ve been upping the number of fixtures almost continuously for the past couple of decades (at least in England, not sure about everywhere else). It’s why I definitely applaud them for organizing together to make their voice heard. I think ‘minute-limits’ clauses could be inserted into contracts if players and agents stood together and made it clear this is something they wanted.

However, from a broader point of view, I was just pointing out the obvious that most of us would feel extremely fortunate if we were in their positions. If fixture fatigue happened to be one of my biggest complaints in life, I’d say I was doing pretty well. Their pay is roughly 100x more than the average citizen of whatever country they’re playing in. Most people would sacrifice quite a bit for that kind of money, especially to play the most popular sport in the world and be potentially idolized by millions.
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Source?

The PL season is 38 games, exactly as it was when the League was launched in 1992. That’s four games less than when the old top-flight consisted of 22 teams.

Every round of the FA Cup (including the Final) used to be replayed until there was a winner. No added time, no shootouts. Just another game a few days later. Arsenal and Liverpool played their semifinal in 1980 four times in the span of three weeks in 1980 (in addition to their league matches) until somebody finally won. The all time record is six replays. Replays have now been eliminated beyond the 4th round, and may be done away with entirely after this season.

The League Cup also used to have replays, but those were stopped long ago. The current format of a two-leg semifinal is going away after this season.

For a time in the early 2000’s, the CL had two group stages and an 8 team knockout round, so the eventual winner played 17 matches, as opposed to the 13 that the two finalists now play.

So by my count, a team who goes the distance in all competitions in 2024 would play AT LEAST five fewer matches than a similarly competitive team 25 years ago.

This issue is entirely about players not wanting to play twice a week, and managers refusing to rotate their squads. Saying that the amount of fixtures is increasing to unprecedented levels is simply false, at least with respect to the club side of things. As for the international side? Yes. There’s entirely too much of that and it needs to be scaled back so players can at least have an off-season.
 
#6,866
#6,866
bleedorange0037 said:
Source?

The PL season is 38 games, exactly as it was when the League was launched in 1992. That’s four games less than when the old top-flight consisted of 22 teams.

Every round of the FA Cup (including the Final) used to be replayed until there was a winner. No added time, no shootouts. Just another game a few days later. Arsenal and Liverpool played their semifinal in 1980 four times in the span of three weeks in 1980 (in addition to their league matches) until somebody finally won. The all time record is six replays. Replays have now been eliminated beyond the 4th round, and may be done away with entirely after this season.

The League Cup also used to have replays, but those were stopped long ago. The current format of a two-leg semifinal is going away after this season.

For a time in the early 2000’s, the CL had two group stages and an 8 team knockout round, so the eventual winner played 17 matches, as opposed to the 13 that the two finalists now play.

So by my count, a team who goes the distance in all competitions in 2024 would play AT LEAST five fewer matches than a similarly competitive team 25 years ago.

This issue is entirely about players not wanting to play twice a week, and managers refusing to rotate their squads. Saying that the amount of fixtures is increasing to unprecedented levels is simply false, at least with respect to the club side of things. As for the international side? Yes. There’s entirely too much of that and it needs to be scaled back so players can at least have an off-season.
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Sorry, that was poor wording. By ‘at least in England’, I meant ‘with respect to English players’. Because those are the ones I mainly keep up with. I understand the fixture fatigue is mainly due to all the extracurricular tournaments players are participating in now which destroys more and more of their offseason. And the addition of tournaments like the Conference League suck even more players into extra fixtures before international breaks. I didn’t mean to specifically imply domestic fixtures were increasing. Apologies.

I don’t pretend to know the history of English football or how many games have been played in which season by which teams. I’m not some pretentious hipster who claims to know the ins and outs of the sport for internet clout. I just follow Tottenham and sometimes I have an opinion about things that affect them and want to discuss that with other people.
 
#6,867
#6,867
Charlie Kelly said:
Sorry, that was poor wording. By ‘at least in England’, I meant ‘with respect to English players’. Because those are the ones I mainly keep up with. I understand the fixture fatigue is mainly due to all the extracurricular tournaments players are participating in now which destroys more and more of their offseason. And the addition of tournaments like the Conference League suck even more players into extra fixtures before international breaks. I didn’t mean to specifically imply domestic fixtures were increasing. Apologies.

I don’t pretend to know the history of English football or how many games have been played in which season by which teams. I’m not some pretentious hipster who claims to know the ins and outs of the sport for internet clout. I just follow Tottenham and sometimes I have an opinion about things that affect them and want to discuss that with other people.
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Neither am I. I knew English teams weren’t playing more than in the past, but had to look up all the pertinent details.

I just know the Big Six (Jurgen Klopp in particular) bitch nonstop about fixture congestion, but never want to play anything other than their first team.

As a fan of a team that has no chance of ever winning the PL and doesn’t compete in the CL, the Cups are the only chance I’ll ever have of seeing them win something. I’ll be surprised if the League Cup exists in 10 years largely because of this. How many trophies do these teams really need? Leicester winning the league ONCE and crashing their party was a big part of why they tried to close up the shop permanently with the Super League. The endless greed of it all just gets old.
 
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#6,868
#6,868
bleedorange0037 said:
Neither am I. I knew English teams weren’t playing more than in the past, but had to look up all the pertinent details.

I just know the Big Six (Jurgen Klopp in particular) bitch nonstop about fixture congestion, but never want to play anything other than their first team.

As a fan of a team that has no chance of ever winning the PL and doesn’t compete in the CL, the Cups are the only chance I’ll ever have of seeing them win something. I’ll be surprised if the League Cup exists in 10 years largely because of this. How many trophies do these teams really need? Leicester winning the league ONCE and crashing their party was a big part of why they tried to close up the shop permanently with the Super League. The endless greed of it all just gets old.
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I said I misspoke and I not only apologized for it but tried to clarify my original meaning as well. My “source” so to speak would have been the complaints of the players (like the original tweet in the original post). Not very trustworthy or official, granted, but I didn’t realize a formal bibliography was a necessary component of a message board post.

I am a fan of parity in whatever form it takes so I would definitely be on your side in hoping that the Cups and chances to win trophies for the smaller sides never go away. I thought Leicester winning the league was great for the sport. I don’t think our opinions are really all that far apart.
 
#6,869
#6,869
Charlie Kelly said:
I said I misspoke and I not only apologized for it but tried to clarify my original meaning as well. My “source” so to speak would have been the complaints of the players (like the original tweet in the original post). Not very trustworthy or official, granted, but I didn’t realize a formal bibliography was a necessary component of a message board post.

I am a fan of parity in whatever form it takes so I would definitely be on your side in hoping that the Cups and chances to win trophies for the smaller sides never go away. I thought Leicester winning the league was great for the sport. I don’t think our opinions are really all that far apart.
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I don’t think they are, and wasn’t trying to be a dick. Apologies if it came off that way.

Klopp has annoyed me for years with his endless complaining about there being too many games. The idea that additional chances for clubs to win trophies should be scaled back because the Big Six might be forced to prioritize certain competitions over others is dumb to me.

I also don’t think the players are wrong to be feeling overworked at the moment. The calendar is only just now ironing itself out from all the ripple effects of COVID and the winter World Cup. They haven’t had a full offseason since the summer of 2019. Plus for a while they were playing three games per international break. Not sure if they still are or not, but that’s a lot to ask of the non-European players who have to travel to the other side of the world and back.

I just think the players gripe lies either with their managers who refuse to rest them enough, or FIFA and the confederations for piling on too many international games. Which goes back to my original point of their being no mention of who they were actually planning to sue. I don’t think the powers that be in England are to blame here. That calendar has actually gotten a bit shorter over the past 20-30 years.
 
#6,870
#6,870
bleedorange0037 said:
Source?

The PL season is 38 games, exactly as it was when the League was launched in 1992. That’s four games less than when the old top-flight consisted of 22 teams.

Every round of the FA Cup (including the Final) used to be replayed until there was a winner. No added time, no shootouts. Just another game a few days later. Arsenal and Liverpool played their semifinal in 1980 four times in the span of three weeks in 1980 (in addition to their league matches) until somebody finally won. The all time record is six replays. Replays have now been eliminated beyond the 4th round, and may be done away with entirely after this season.

The League Cup also used to have replays, but those were stopped long ago. The current format of a two-leg semifinal is going away after this season.

For a time in the early 2000’s, the CL had two group stages and an 8 team knockout round, so the eventual winner played 17 matches, as opposed to the 13 that the two finalists now play.

So by my count, a team who goes the distance in all competitions in 2024 would play AT LEAST five fewer matches than a similarly competitive team 25 years ago.

This issue is entirely about players not wanting to play twice a week, and managers refusing to rotate their squads. Saying that the amount of fixtures is increasing to unprecedented levels is simply false, at least with respect to the club side of things. As for the international side? Yes. There’s entirely too much of that and it needs to be scaled back so players can at least have an off-season.
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I really don’t think it’s that domestic league and cups that are the issue. CL may have went backwards but now it’s going back up by at least 2 more games next year.. more if you have to play in the qualifying. Club World Cup, which is a dumb tournament to start with IMO, is going to a larger format this summer too.

Then you get into Internationals and this is where the true gripe is I bet. World Cup is expanding by 24 games in 2026 apparently. Since the 1970s, the World Cup has doubled the amount of games it used to play compared to now. Nations League has replaced international friendlies which these are meant to be more competitive. This means less rotation.

So the top players who play for top clubs and their country are playing a very congested schedule and it’s year around. Sports science has continued to get better and their is plenty of evidence out there now that says when players are playing the amount that they are, it’s going to result in more fatigue injuries and some of those can then become chronic reoccurring injuries (Reece James who can’t get healthy to save his life was cited in one I read about fatigue injuries). There needs to be more of a break in the summer for the good of the players. And yes, I do agree that managers are also an issue with their squad rotation. Players and managers need to be better at that themselves too.
 
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#6,871
#6,871
So, posted a week or so ago about AFCON but completely forgot about the Asian Cup being at the same time. So that’s even more players out for a while and a couple more massively important players like Son.

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#6,872
#6,872
#6,873
#6,873
Finally got around to watching the highlights from yesterday’s Liverpool/Newcastle game. Absolutely pathetic from Jota at the end. Who knocks the ball past the keeper into space and then decides to dive rather than just tapping it into the open net? FTR, MacAllister’s ball that played him in to begin with was as beautiful as the dive was disgraceful.
 
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#6,874
#6,874
bleedorange0037 said:
Finally got around to watching the highlights from yesterday’s Liverpool/Newcastle game. Absolutely pathetic from Jota at the end. Who knocks the ball past the keeper into space and then decides to dive rather than just tapping it into the open net? FTR, MacAllister’s ball that played him in to begin with was as beautiful as the dive was disgraceful.
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Agreed, didn't think there was much there. I think he was desperate because his touch around the keeper was too hard and he thought he would be at a difficult angle to goal.

Still think LFC would have won, but a bad dive.

Also losing Endo and Salah at this point of the season is a massive issue. Can only hope Egypt gets knocked out early...
 
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#6,875
#6,875
Through_The_T said:
Agreed, didn't think there was much there. I think he was desperate because his touch around the keeper was too hard and he thought he would be at a difficult angle to goal.

Still think LFC would have won, but a bad dive.

Also losing Endo and Salah at this point of the season is a massive issue. Can only hope Egypt gets knocked out early...
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I agree as well. Was a dive and not sure why he did it. Looked like he still could’ve gotten a shot off.
 
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