President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

[VOLS INC.]

I agree, Lincoln and his cronies were the biggest abusers of the constitution to ever hold power. The creation of WV was completely unconstitutional.

My son is reading pro-Lincoln propaganda right now. First grade book. You would have burned it already lol.

 

[hog88]

My son is reading pro-Lincoln propaganda right now. First grade book. You would have burned it already lol.

Just give him the real story

 

[DC_Vol]

ok Hollywood

True story! He was nice but kind of an odd dude. He discussed with me once how he’d like to start his own currency.

He also twice tried to talk my girlfriend at the time into leaving me for him

 

[VOLS INC.]

Just give him the real story

Gonna have him watch this.

 

[hjeagle1vol]

another colossal waste of taxpayer money

 

[utvolpj]

Yes, many constitutional experts believe the 14th excludes illegals born of illegal parents. Bad Orange Man and most Americans want it settled by the Supreme Court

It has been to the Supreme Court. You just want to keep going back until you get your way

 

[Smallvol#1]

Change the constitution

I would say change the interpretation not the Constitution. The 14th goes back to 1868 and the last thing they were thinking of when it was written and passed were immigrants, legal or illegal.
I definitely agree with your previous posts on this issue as to it needs to go to the SC; the various interpretations/applications are so entrenched the only way to decide the issue is a SC ruling. If people don’t like whatever the SC decides, then create and approve a new amendment, just like the Constitution allows.

@hog88, Sorry if I misunderstood you; my comment was based on this post. I guess bad memory; didn’t mean to misquote you.

hog88​

Your ray of sunshine​

JoinedSep 30, 2008Messages116,031Likes166,816

I hate the .fed. I also hate the perversion of the .gov that has occurred by Obama 2.0 and the rest of that gang all due to their hatred of Trump. But I think that since he IS the president elect that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in the interest of the country to put all this crap behind us and move on.

It needs to go through the courts as any other case would. If it makes its way to SCOTUS that way then fine.

 

[utvolpj]

I would say change the interpretation not the Constitution. The 14th goes back to 1868 and the last thing they were thinking of when it was written and passed were immigrants, legal or illegal.
I definitely agree with your previous posts on this issue as to it needs to go to the SC; the various interpretations/applications are so entrenched the only way to decide the issue is a SC ruling. If people don’t like whatever the SC decides, then create and approve a new amendment, just like the Constitution allows.

There was a Supreme Court ruling already on this exact issue. Why does it need to go again?

 

[RockyTop85]

Seems kind of unusual to have HSI there over a lawyer not doing work. Usually the bar will go after some of them after they receive plenty of complaints. I've known a few to stay in business for a very long time taking money and not doing anything. Of course, a good percentage barely do anything anyway. I guess something like that could have a federal nexus but not something I would think is normal.

Immigration Attorney Sentenced to More Than Six Years in Prison for Fraud Scheme and Identity Theft in Relation to Visa Applications

www.justice.gov

An Indianapolis, Indiana immigration attorney was sentenced today to 75 months in prison for defrauding the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and more than 250 of his clients by filing fraudulent visa applications and reaping approximately $750,000 in illegitimate fees. Acting Assistant Attorney General John P. Cronan of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and Special Agent in Charge James M. Gibbons of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations (ICE-HSI) in Chicago made the announcement.

Joel Paul, 45, of Fishers, Indiana, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Jane E. Magnus-Stinson of the Southern District of Indiana. In addition to the prison sentence, Judge Magnus-Stinson sentenced Paul to serve three years of supervised release, and ordered that he pay up to $750,000 in restitution to his victims. In November 2017, Paul pleaded guilty to one count each of mail fraud, immigration document fraud, and aggravated identity theft in connection with a scheme to submit fraudulent U-visa applications.

“Immigration fraud undermines not only the public’s faith in our institutions and the legal profession, it also jeopardizes public safety and compromises national security,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Cronan. “Attorneys who commit such egregious fraud on our legal system and their own clients will be held accountable.”

“Immigration fraud presents a serious threat to the national security of our country,” said Special Agent in Charge Gibbons. “Illegal schemes like this not only undermine the integrity of our nation’s legal immigration system, but they create potential security vulnerabilities while also cheating deserving immigrants of benefits they rightfully deserve.”

As part of his plea agreement, Paul admitted that from 2013 to 2017, he submitted more than 250 false Applications for Advance Permission to Enter as a Nonimmigrant on behalf of his clients and without their knowledge. Those applications falsely asserted that Paul’s clients had been victims of a crime and had provided substantial assistance to law enforcement in investigating the crime. With approximately 200 of the false applications, Paul submitted unauthorized copies of a certification he had obtained from the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) for the Southern District of Indiana in 2013, using the certification without the USAO’s knowledge to falsely claim that the applicant had provided substantial assistance in a criminal prosecution. In total, Paul charged his clients approximately $3,000 per application.

HSI investigated the case with the assistance of USCIS Fraud Detection and National Security Directorate. Trial Attorneys Molly Gaston, Peter M. Nothstein and Amanda Vaughn of the Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section prosecuted the case.

 

[RockyTop85]

Immigration Attorney Sentenced to More Than Six Years in Prison for Fraud Scheme and Identity Theft in Relation to Visa Applications

www.justice.gov

An Indianapolis, Indiana immigration attorney was sentenced today to 75 months in prison for defrauding the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and more than 250 of his clients by filing fraudulent visa applications and reaping approximately $750,000 in illegitimate fees. Acting Assistant Attorney General John P. Cronan of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and Special Agent in Charge James M. Gibbons of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations (ICE-HSI) in Chicago made the announcement.

Joel Paul, 45, of Fishers, Indiana, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Jane E. Magnus-Stinson of the Southern District of Indiana. In addition to the prison sentence, Judge Magnus-Stinson sentenced Paul to serve three years of supervised release, and ordered that he pay up to $750,000 in restitution to his victims. In November 2017, Paul pleaded guilty to one count each of mail fraud, immigration document fraud, and aggravated identity theft in connection with a scheme to submit fraudulent U-visa applications.

“Immigration fraud undermines not only the public’s faith in our institutions and the legal profession, it also jeopardizes public safety and compromises national security,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Cronan. “Attorneys who commit such egregious fraud on our legal system and their own clients will be held accountable.”

“Immigration fraud presents a serious threat to the national security of our country,” said Special Agent in Charge Gibbons. “Illegal schemes like this not only undermine the integrity of our nation’s legal immigration system, but they create potential security vulnerabilities while also cheating deserving immigrants of benefits they rightfully deserve.”

As part of his plea agreement, Paul admitted that from 2013 to 2017, he submitted more than 250 false Applications for Advance Permission to Enter as a Nonimmigrant on behalf of his clients and without their knowledge. Those applications falsely asserted that Paul’s clients had been victims of a crime and had provided substantial assistance to law enforcement in investigating the crime. With approximately 200 of the false applications, Paul submitted unauthorized copies of a certification he had obtained from the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) for the Southern District of Indiana in 2013, using the certification without the USAO’s knowledge to falsely claim that the applicant had provided substantial assistance in a criminal prosecution. In total, Paul charged his clients approximately $3,000 per application.

HSI investigated the case with the assistance of USCIS Fraud Detection and National Security Directorate. Trial Attorneys Molly Gaston, Peter M. Nothstein and Amanda Vaughn of the Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section prosecuted the case.

fourth result for “HSI immigration fraud cases” on Google. Took less than a minute.

 

[hog88]

I would say change the interpretation not the Constitution. The 14th goes back to 1868 and the last thing they were thinking of when it was written and passed were immigrants, legal or illegal.
I definitely agree with your previous posts on this issue as to it needs to go to the SC; the various interpretations/applications are so entrenched the only way to decide the issue is a SC ruling. If people don’t like whatever the SC decides, then create and approve a new amendment, just like the Constitution allows.

I don't believe it needs to go to SCOTUS, the constitution needs to be amended to make it simple. Birthright citizenship only applies to children born to at least 1 US citizen. Why would that be so hard to pass? What are the objections?

 

[Fun coupon VOL]

It has been to the Supreme Court. You just want to keep going back until you get your way

And?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Immigration Attorney Sentenced to More Than Six Years in Prison for Fraud Scheme and Identity Theft in Relation to Visa Applications

www.justice.gov

An Indianapolis, Indiana immigration attorney was sentenced today to 75 months in prison for defrauding the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and more than 250 of his clients by filing fraudulent visa applications and reaping approximately $750,000 in illegitimate fees. Acting Assistant Attorney General John P. Cronan of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and Special Agent in Charge James M. Gibbons of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations (ICE-HSI) in Chicago made the announcement.

Joel Paul, 45, of Fishers, Indiana, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Jane E. Magnus-Stinson of the Southern District of Indiana. In addition to the prison sentence, Judge Magnus-Stinson sentenced Paul to serve three years of supervised release, and ordered that he pay up to $750,000 in restitution to his victims. In November 2017, Paul pleaded guilty to one count each of mail fraud, immigration document fraud, and aggravated identity theft in connection with a scheme to submit fraudulent U-visa applications.

“Immigration fraud undermines not only the public’s faith in our institutions and the legal profession, it also jeopardizes public safety and compromises national security,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Cronan. “Attorneys who commit such egregious fraud on our legal system and their own clients will be held accountable.”

“Immigration fraud presents a serious threat to the national security of our country,” said Special Agent in Charge Gibbons. “Illegal schemes like this not only undermine the integrity of our nation’s legal immigration system, but they create potential security vulnerabilities while also cheating deserving immigrants of benefits they rightfully deserve.”

As part of his plea agreement, Paul admitted that from 2013 to 2017, he submitted more than 250 false Applications for Advance Permission to Enter as a Nonimmigrant on behalf of his clients and without their knowledge. Those applications falsely asserted that Paul’s clients had been victims of a crime and had provided substantial assistance to law enforcement in investigating the crime. With approximately 200 of the false applications, Paul submitted unauthorized copies of a certification he had obtained from the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) for the Southern District of Indiana in 2013, using the certification without the USAO’s knowledge to falsely claim that the applicant had provided substantial assistance in a criminal prosecution. In total, Paul charged his clients approximately $3,000 per application.

HSI investigated the case with the assistance of USCIS Fraud Detection and National Security Directorate. Trial Attorneys Molly Gaston, Peter M. Nothstein and Amanda Vaughn of the Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section prosecuted the case.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yes, many constitutional experts believe the 14th excludes illegals born of illegal parents. Bad Orange Man and most Americans want it settled by the Supreme Court

I just don't see the huge issue in this. I mean, you eliminate most of the illegal criminals than the problem is basically solved. To me it makes more sense to get rid of all the dual crap. There are already statutory laws for one to renounce their citizenship, and abandonment for ones that went through the naturalization process.

If the child leaves the country to go back to their parents home country, I say just statutorily give them until 21 to establish residence in the U.S. or consider their citizenship to be abandoned as they established citizenship elsewhere.

I don't understand the logic of recognizing dual citizenship except in a situation like this and for limited time.

 

[NCFisher]

It has been to the Supreme Court. You just want to keep going back until you get your way

Isn't that somewhat hasty when we know many things have been to the SC that yielded shoddy constitutional decisions? Other SC decisions were subsequently interpreted by lower courts and precedence incorrectly established due to faulty or incomplete interpretation. And have never made it back to the court.

If accurate from the link I posted earlier Birthright Citizenship: A Fundamental Misunderstanding of the 14th Amendment then it seems subsequent courts citing this as precedent, case law, may be due review.

Even in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the 1898 case most often cited by “birthright” supporters due to its overbroad language, the court only held that a child born of lawful, permanent residents was a U.S. citizen. That is a far cry from saying that a child born of individuals who are here illegally must be considered a U.S. citizen.

Of course, the judges in that case were strongly influenced by the fact that there were discriminatory laws in place at that time that restricted Chinese immigration, a situation that does not exist today.

The court’s interpretation of the 14th Amendment as extending to the children of legal, noncitizens was incorrect, according to the text and legislative history of the amendment. But even under that holding, citizenship was not extended to the children of illegal aliens—only permanent, legal residents.

This is Trump's EO position, if my reading is correct, along with the age and pupose of the amendment.

 

[NCFisher]

I agree, Lincoln and his cronies were the biggest abusers of the constitution to ever hold power. The creation of WV was completely unconstitutional.

I've been so lonely...good to see someone else that thinks Lincoln has been so lionized as to have been put beyond a constitutional examination, even today.
No one did more to destroy federalism.

 

[jmacvols1]

Trump already bring down crime....

 

[hog88]

Isn't that somewhat hasty when we know many things have been to the SC that yielded shoddy constitutional decisions? Other SC decisions were subsequently interpreted by lower courts and precedence incorrectly established due to faulty or incomplete interpretation. And have never made it back to the court.

If accurate from the link I posted earlier Birthright Citizenship: A Fundamental Misunderstanding of the 14th Amendment then it seems subsequent courts citing this as precedent, case law, may be due review.

Even in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the 1898 case most often cited by “birthright” supporters due to its overbroad language, the court only held that a child born of lawful, permanent residents was a U.S. citizen. That is a far cry from saying that a child born of individuals who are here illegally must be considered a U.S. citizen.

Of course, the judges in that case were strongly influenced by the fact that there were discriminatory laws in place at that time that restricted Chinese immigration, a situation that does not exist today.

The court’s interpretation of the 14th Amendment as extending to the children of legal, noncitizens was incorrect, according to the text and legislative history of the amendment. But even under that holding, citizenship was not extended to the children of illegal aliens—only permanent, legal residents.

This is Trump's EO position, if my reading is correct.

Here's the problem with a SCOTUS ruling, say the court lets Trump's EO stand. Will that open up the millions of US citizens born to illegal parents in years past to lose their citizenship?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Here's the problem with a SCOTUS ruling, say the court lets Trump's EO stand. Will that open up the millions of US citizens born to illegal parents in years past to lose their citizenship?

Does anyone know if a country won't provide citizenship status to a child born outside their country? (I've always wondered if a child could be born without a country)

Statutorily you basically solve this, if they haven't returned by 21 the U.S. can consider their status abandoned. If they are residing here, there would be no issue.

 

[hog88]

Does anyone know if a country won't provide citizenship status to a child born outside their country? (I've always wondered if a child could be born without a country)

Statutorily you basically solve this, if they haven't returned by 21 the U.S. can consider their status abandoned. If they are residing here, there would be no issue.

I have no idea, I do know that we're one of the few countries that have BRC without a parent being a citizen. We're also one of the few that allow dual citizenship which is something else that needs to be ended.

 

[NCFisher]

Here's the problem with a SCOTUS ruling, say the court lets Trump's EO stand. Will that open up the millions of US citizens born to illegal parents in years past to lose their citizenship?

That is a problem and I could easily see Roberts, Barrett, Kav, possibly Gorsuch siding with Dem appointments to decline hearing, or siding to affirm this current interpretation. If taking the case and finding the case law constitutionally deficient and establish there is no BRC, perhaps would not punish retroactively a condition prior law had established; going forward there would be no BRC, however.

I've no idea what constitutional gears get ground in that situation, but I'd like to see it reviewed. It'd go a long way explaining an amendment interpretation that seems nonsensical.

 

[hog88]

That is a problem and I could easily see Roberts, Barrett, Kav, possibly Gorsuch siding with Dem appointments to decline hearing, or siding to affirm this current interpretation. If taking the case and finding the case law constitutionally deficient and establish there is no BRC, perhaps would not punish retroactively a condition prior law had established; going forward there would be no BRC, however.

I've no idea what constitutional gears get ground in that situation, but I'd like to see it reviewed. It'd go a long way explaining an amendment interpretation that seems nonsensical.

I think the best solution is an amendment. Plain and simple, 1 parent must be a US citizen. Anyone or group objecting to the amendment would look like an ass.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I have no idea, I do know that we're one of the few countries that have BRC without a parent being a citizen. We're also one of the few that allow dual citizenship which is something else that needs to be ended.

I think ending that would be a great start, a temporary dual for children perhaps could make sense within a framework. Statutorily, the law already allows people to have their citizenship revoked under certain conditions one being abandonment. However, even for natural born Americans they can statutorily give up citizenship, so if they can do it willingly.... I don't see much difference, the child would be giving up citizenship after a time period.

This basically solves most but maybe not all of people's concern on many levels.

I think duals is crock of **** on quite a few levels.

Are you American? Sometimes?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Looks like Trump is taking out lots of garbage at DOJ right now. Lots of firings and reassignments, and appointments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/21/ed-martin-jan-6-lawyer-dc-us-attorney/

Same for FBI.

 

[jmacvols1]

Greenland, USA