Proof of the Collapse of the Republic

#26
#26
MG1968 said:
so it's BS that my ancestors came here with the purpose of becoming Americans and not establishing small pieces of Italy and Czechoslovakia in greater Cleveland, OH? thanks for your insight into my family history.
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Yes. Your argument is complete and utter BS. Look around the country. There are still Dutch towns, German towns, Italian neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

The hispanics are not trying to change America. They are coming to America to work and, just like millions of immigrants prior to them, they are bringing along their culture.

The philosophy of the American immigrant has not changed over the past 200 years. People come to America for the opportunity to work and provide a better life for their families. There is nothing new to the concept. The only thing that has changed is that Americans now believe we should shut our borders and keep others from pursuing what our ancestors pursued. It is complete arrogance and it is completely backwards to a society that wants a healthy economy.
 
#27
#27
therealUT said:
The hispanics are not trying to change America. They are coming to America to work and, just like millions of immigrants prior to them, they are bringing along their culture.
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all things being equal, I'm going to call that one BS. when you have the ghost of Che Guevera invoked everytime there is an immigration rally, and with radical groups like La Raza and the Reconquista movements fueling the fires, saying the illegal immigrants from Mexico don't want to change America is a sadly misinformed viewpoint.
 
#28
#28
Well let's see. You have about 10,000 people some flying Che's face around and there are 20 million illegals. I'd say that those 10K are not speaking for the 20 million others here. Those 20 million who choose not to show up but rather keep their mouth shut and actually work are not trying to take over the country. It's as bad as saying Fred Phelps represents Christianity. Just because he parades around quoting the Bible and carrying a cross doesn't tie him to the rest of us.
 
#29
#29
therealUT said:
The only thing that has changed is that Americans now believe we should shut our borders and keep others from pursuing what our ancestors pursued. It is complete arrogance and it is completely backwards to a society that wants a healthy economy.
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Not sure how controlling the borders gets turned into keeping others from pursuing freedom. As far as the people I know that want border control, they are more than ok with people entering legally. Since I was not born wealthy that does not give me the right to take from a person that was born wealthy. However, I am more than free to pursue wealth.
 
#30
#30
Stand in line and wait quite a while to PERHAPS get here legally vs. cross the imaginary line and get to work immediately....I'd see why so many go the second route.
 
#31
#31
Yea I can see their view too. Doesn't mean I agree with how the US is handling its side of the equation.
 
#36
#36
CSpindizzy said:
Rob a bank versus cross an imaginary line....hmmm. Take someone else's money or cross that imaginary line....
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You are taking someone else's money when you cross that line because there is an American that is losing their job because of you.

BTW, I'm not defending the actions of the people that hire these guys, either. We need to enforce the laws that are on the books. People that cross the border illegally and those that hire illegals should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
Yes. Your argument is complete and utter BS. Look around the country. There are still Dutch towns, German towns, Italian neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

The hispanics are not trying to change America. They are coming to America to work and, just like millions of immigrants prior to them, they are bringing along their culture.

The philosophy of the American immigrant has not changed over the past 200 years. People come to America for the opportunity to work and provide a better life for their families. There is nothing new to the concept. The only thing that has changed is that Americans now believe we should shut our borders and keep others from pursuing what our ancestors pursued. It is complete arrogance and it is completely backwards to a society that wants a healthy economy.
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I don't see this group of immigrants even willing enough to learn the language. Instead, they ask us to bend and make accomadations for them.

No other immigrant group has been this reluctant or defient to even learn the language.
 
#39
#39
Tenn_Vol_Authority said:
You are taking someone else's money when you cross that line because there is an American that is losing their job because of you.

BTW, I'm not defending the actions of the people that hire these guys, either. We need to enforce the laws that are on the books. People that cross the border illegally and those that hire illegals should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
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That illegal is not taking ANYONE else's money. The American who hires this person has chosen to contract work with whoever they feel can work the hardest for the best wage. If your definition were accurate, then you're taking MY money any time you get a new job...fill in the blank with anyone else's name. Americans lose jobs because they either are not qualified or want more than the employer is willing to pay. Take out the illegals and this still happens. Take out the illegals and even more companies will continue to head south for the cheaper labor.

Regardless of legality, there are aliens taking away American jobs on a daily basis. Actually the company I work for has to help aliens with their paperwork to get willing workers to fill slots. We're desperate for programmers but it seems only those on work visas are the only ones qualified who do not want more than they are worth. Wages are not Americans in this country.
 
#41
#41
allvol123 said:
Please don't take that angle. You just hurt the cause with comments like that.
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There are craftsmen (electricians I know) that are feeling the heat of Mexican and Guatamalan workers underbidding them for jobs that they do. The crafts are getting killed by illegal workers.

This crap about doing jobs that Americans don't want to do is pure bravo sierra. Americans will do the work, but not for the price they are asking.
 
#42
#42
CSpindizzy said:
That illegal is not taking ANYONE else's money. The American who hires this person has chosen to contract work with whoever they feel can work the hardest for the best wage. If your definition were accurate, then you're taking MY money any time you get a new job...fill in the blank with anyone else's name. Americans lose jobs because they either are not qualified or want more than the employer is willing to pay. Take out the illegals and this still happens. Take out the illegals and even more companies will continue to head south for the cheaper labor.

Regardless of legality, there are aliens taking away American jobs on a daily basis. Actually the company I work for has to help aliens with their paperwork to get willing workers to fill slots. We're desperate for programmers but it seems only those on work visas are the only ones qualified who do not want more than they are worth. Wages are not Americans in this country.
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I'm sure I could find an illegal worker that would or could do your job for less than what you would do it for.

I'm a conservative and believe in free markets and employers having the right to pay what they want, but it has to be market value and it has to be within the terms of some kind of law.
 
#43
#43
Tenn_Vol_Authority said:
I'm sure I could find an illegal worker that would or could do your job for less than what you would do it for.

I'm a conservative and believe in free markets and employers having the right to pay what they want, but it has to be market value and it has to be within the terms of some kind of law.
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Socialism for all!
 
#44
#44
What's funny about the WHOLE illegal immigrant argument is, what part of people are INVADING the country don't you understand?? You guys act like ALL these people want to do is better their life and they aren't doing ANYTHING WRONG. Maybe you will change your tune when one of these Illegals kill someone you love or care about....

WorldNetDaily: DUI illegal kills pedestrian week after given probation

These people really do alot to better our country don't they!!
 
#45
#45
g8terh8ter_eric said:
What's funny about the WHOLE illegal immigrant argument is, what part of people are INVADING the country don't you understand?? You guys act like ALL these people want to do is better their life and they aren't doing ANYTHING WRONG. Maybe you will change your tune when one of these Illegals kill someone you love or care about....

WorldNetDaily: DUI illegal kills pedestrian week after given probation

These people really do alot to better our country don't they!!
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I would venture to say the vast majority of alcohol related fatalities on our nations roadways are not caused by illegals.
 
#46
#46
Tenn_Vol_Authority said:
I think you missed the key word... ILLEGAL!!!!
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I am not trying to argue about whether or not something is illegal, I am arguing that it should not now, nor should it ever have been, nor should it ever be illegal.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

Something tells me that a majority of the founding fathers would probably side with me on this issue.
 
#47
#47
emainvol said:
I am not trying to argue about whether or not something is illegal, I am arguing that it should not now, nor should it ever have been, nor should it ever be illegal.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

Something tells me that a majority of the founding fathers would probably side with me on this issue.
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That was intended for US citizens... not illegals.
 
#49
#49
emainvol said:
Seeing as how there was no US at the time that was written, I would have to say you are wrong sir.

But, maybe you should read it again anyway. I am pretty sure it says "all men"
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All men are created equally and are empowered with individual freedoms that are granted to them by God. But you cannot have people that don't respect the laws of our land or even have the decency to even make an attempt tolearn the language just run all over our society in a nihilistic manner.
 
#50
#50
Tenn_Vol_Authority said:
All men are created equally and are empowered with individual freedoms that are granted to them by God. But you cannot have people that don't respect the laws of our land or even have the decency to even make an attempt tolearn the language just run all over our society in a nihilistic manner.
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I really can't see how trying to support your family or live a better life can be considered nihilistic. In fact, it seems to be the exact opposite.
 
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