Quality Win Update for SEC teams

#76
#76
hatvol96 said:
Only when I see something as ridiculous as NC State being good or DePaul, who had Koshwal when they lost to Florida Gulf Coast, not really being that bad. If you guys didn't quote that silliness, I wouldn't notice he exists.
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I think most of us just want to keep him around so we can bump all of these ridiculous threads in about 7 weeks.
 
#78
#78
Emain I linked to the Richmond thread. You liked them. It is weird that you got angry about that. The only time I mocked you was about USC, and you were like almost everyone who said that would not be hard at all. In fact, knowing Gerrity would be cleared and would play the game of his life was impossible to predict.

Thanks for making an argument though. I do appreciate it.

The funny thing will be if the SEC and the Big 10 get in 5 which is very possible. Hat will pretend he never said 6, and you and I will continue to differ as to which conference is better.

Let me just ask this hypothetical,
is there any circumstance between now and March that could convince you that the SEC is better than the Big 10?
 
#79
#79
MikeHamiltonFan said:
There is a small group who think they understand basketball. It numbers no more than 6 posters. They really do post more than anyone else in the basketball forum, and hardwood fanatic is amongst the group.

For admission you do not have to be a tennessee fan, you can be from a hated rival. But you cannot be a fan of Bruce Pearl. You also have to suck up to hat, with the exception of Emain and BPV both of whom have been here long enough that they are exempt from that requirement.

The truth is, I actually do enjoy reasoned debate about basketball. There is just precious little here.

Earlier in the year it was "early games mean nothing" then it was "predictions are stupid" now no one will even stand up and defend the predictions they actually made.

Emain you agreed with 6 from the Big 10 right? Also that the Big 10 is better than the SEC? I am not saying NC State is a great team, I am saying look at the list of the teams that were mocked when I said they were good wins, and defend why they are all much worse teams than the crappy middle of the Big 10...
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That helps explain things, thanks. Kind of an elitist (sp )
all knowing basketball society. The debates seem a little one sided, with several ganging up on anyone with an opposing opinion. My basketball thoughts are largely limited to the SEC so I am again going to try to get back to football recruiting.
 
#81
#81
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I hope that alcohol is involved in trying to use one game between NW and NC State to say that the Wildcats are not a crap team.

I said weeks ago, Ohio State with Evan Turner back look amazingly good.
Michigan State seems to be healed up and ready to make lots of noise.
Purdue is a VERY strong team.
Wisconsin plays such an ugly system to me, but they play it incredibly well.

The above 4 teams will play to gaudy conference records for the rest of the year, beating the crap teams beneath them. Perhaps 1 more team will go on a run and make it into the tourney as a low seed, but the Big 10 is not as good as the SEC and they will NOT get 6 teams into the tournament.
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Yeah, just like OSU beat the crap out of Minnesota a couple of weeks ago.
 
#82
#82
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Emain I linked to the Richmond thread. You liked them. It is weird that you got angry about that. The only time I mocked you was about USC, and you were like almost everyone who said that would not be hard at all. In fact, knowing Gerrity would be cleared and would play the game of his life was impossible to predict.

Thanks for making an argument though. I do appreciate it.

The funny thing will be if the SEC and the Big 10 get in 5 which is very possible. Hat will pretend he never said 6, and you and I will continue to differ as to which conference is better.

Let me just ask this hypothetical,
is there any circumstance between now and March that could convince you that the SEC is better than the Big 10?
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Terrorists could detonate a nuclear bomb in East Lansing on Feb. 20.
 
#83
#83
SEC will not get 6 in.

Big 10 will get 5.

Big 10 stands a better shot of getting 6 in than the SEC does.
 
#85
#85
MikeHamiltonFan said:
There is a small group who think they understand basketball. It numbers no more than 6 posters. They really do post more than anyone else in the basketball forum, and hardwood fanatic is amongst the group.

For admission you do not have to be a tennessee fan, you can be from a hated rival. But you cannot be a fan of Bruce Pearl. You also have to suck up to hat, with the exception of Emain and BPV both of whom have been here long enough that they are exempt from that requirement.

The truth is, I actually do enjoy reasoned debate about basketball. There is just precious little here.

Earlier in the year it was "early games mean nothing" then it was "predictions are stupid" now no one will even stand up and defend the predictions they actually made.

Emain you agreed with 6 from the Big 10 right? Also that the Big 10 is better than the SEC? I am not saying NC State is a great team, I am saying look at the list of the teams that were mocked when I said they were good wins, and defend why they are all much worse teams than the crappy middle of the Big 10...
Click to expand...

Instead of blowing you off like normal, I will attempt to find some middle ground here.

First of all, I don't "think" I know basketball. I know it quite well.

Second of all, I have never stated myself to be anti-Bruce Pearl. Show many any post where I have ever said I "hate" or "am not a fan of" Bruce Pearl. You can't, because there isn't one. All I have done is discuss the deficiencies (some critical) which I believe him to have, and how it effects your program. Bruce has done more from a PR standpoint, and the program than any have done in quite sometime. That is not however a free pass to make stupid decisions.

Third of all, I enjoy reasonable debate as well. But the same thread you start over and over again about the same subject only breeds fighting, because everyone is tired of discussing it. So instead of finding middle ground, everyone decides to just say STFU. Find something else, and we'll give it another shot.

To your credit, you actually try. (maybe not succeed...) Instead of showing up in threads like some of these people and start throwing insults around for no reason.

Thats my best version of an olive branch. TIFWIW.


As for this continued debate, I will state my own opinions so that you can no longer be confused or group me in with other peoples prognostications.

The debate about which conference is stronger is not as black and white as you make it out to be. I'm not convinced that a contest of "who gets more tourney teams in" is a clear winner of conference superiority. Perhaps in the eyes of the media, or your eyes, it is. I don't see it that way.

I judge it by the style of basketball thats played. Fundamental basketball. Its obvious watching Wisconsin play that while they will never set the world on fire with excitement, they play so well fundamentally that they would run roughshod over most all of the SEC on a nightly basis.

On a whole, even though the SEC has more teams with better records, I see more teams in the Big 10 that have the ability to play at a higher level. I believe the Big Ten to be slightly deeper.

Ole Miss just lost to Arkansas, who quite frankly is one of the worst three teams in this league. I just don't think that outside of UK/UT there is much to be confident about.

As for the amount of tournament teams that get in from each conference, AT THIS POINT.....I don't see 6 getting in from the Big Ten. There are 4 teams guaranteed and two other teams (Northwestern/Illinois) that are battling for the #5 spot. Its possible that somebody puts a good run together and gets in at a #6 spot.

Either of these leagues getting 6 teams in is a good possibility, due mainly to the complete collapse of the PAC 10 conference. There will be some open spots that are normally filled by the PAC 10.

As for the SEC at this point, its a solid 4 with a very very good possibility of 5 teams. 6 is not out of the question. But 8-8 teams in the SEC normally do not make the tourney, unless the go undefeated in the OOC schedule. I just don't see 6 happening.

All of these "predictions" are based upon the fact that a darkhorse with no shot does not win their respective tournaments.

As for your arguments with others concerning their predictions, some of those were made early as you stated.

When someone said the SEC might only get 3 teams in I agreed and said its a good possibility. Because at that time the SEC was sucking in a major way, and the Big Ten was rolling along.

So there ya have it. Mark it down, do whatever you want with it.

For some reason I feel dirty now.
 
#87
#87
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Instead of blowing you off like normal, I will attempt to find some middle ground here.

First of all, I don't "think" I know basketball. I know it quite well.

Second of all, I have never stated myself to be anti-Bruce Pearl. Show many any post where I have ever said I "hate" or "am not a fan of" Bruce Pearl. You can't, because there isn't one. All I have done is discuss the deficiencies (some critical) which I believe him to have, and how it effects your program. Bruce has done more from a PR standpoint, and the program than any have done in quite sometime. That is not however a free pass to make stupid decisions.

Third of all, I enjoy reasonable debate as well. But the same thread you start over and over again about the same subject only breeds fighting, because everyone is tired of discussing it. So instead of finding middle ground, everyone decides to just say STFU. Find something else, and we'll give it another shot.

To your credit, you actually try. (maybe not succeed...) Instead of showing up in threads like some of these people and start throwing insults around for no reason.

Thats my best version of an olive branch. TIFWIW.


As for this continued debate, I will state my own opinions so that you can no longer be confused or group me in with other peoples prognostications.

The debate about which conference is stronger is not as black and white as you make it out to be. I'm not convinced that a contest of "who gets more tourney teams in" is a clear winner of conference superiority. Perhaps in the eyes of the media, or your eyes, it is. I don't see it that way.

I judge it by the style of basketball thats played. Fundamental basketball. Its obvious watching Wisconsin play that while they will never set the world on fire with excitement, they play so well fundamentally that they would run roughshod over most all of the SEC on a nightly basis.

On a whole, even though the SEC has more teams with better records, I see more teams in the Big 10 that have the ability to play at a higher level. I believe the Big Ten to be slightly deeper.

Ole Miss just lost to Arkansas, who quite frankly is one of the worst three teams in this league. I just don't think that outside of UK/UT there is much to be confident about.

As for the amount of tournament teams that get in from each conference, AT THIS POINT.....I don't see 6 getting in from the Big Ten. There are 4 teams guaranteed and two other teams (Northwestern/Illinois) that are battling for the #5 spot. Its possible that somebody puts a good run together and gets in at a #6 spot.

Either of these leagues getting 6 teams in is a good possibility, due mainly to the complete collapse of the PAC 10 conference. There will be some open spots that are normally filled by the PAC 10.

As for the SEC at this point, its a solid 4 with a very very good possibility of 5 teams. 6 is not out of the question. But 8-8 teams in the SEC normally do not make the tourney, unless the go undefeated in the OOC schedule. I just don't see 6 happening.

All of these "predictions" are based upon the fact that a darkhorse with no shot does not win their respective tournaments.

As for your arguments with others concerning their predictions, some of those were made early as you stated.

When someone said the SEC might only get 3 teams in I agreed and said its a good possibility. Because at that time the SEC was sucking in a major way, and the Big Ten was rolling along.

So there ya have it. Mark it down, do whatever you want with it.

For some reason I feel dirty now.
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If you look at the remaining schedule for Ole Miss, they are in danger of playing themselves right into that 8-8 no man's land you mentioned.
 
#88
#88
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I enjoy debating about

Conference strength

I also enjoy talking about what programs are strong and what programs are not. What programs are on the way up and which programs are on the way down. Which programs seem likely to have the NCAA hammer fall vacating lots of their wins, and which programs are likely to avoid all of that.

I also think Bruce Pearl is worth his salary and is an excellent coach. That is the root of most of the other animosity.

When I came on this site, the basketball section seemed reserved for those who expressed lots of animus towards our coach. Since then, there is a mixture, but those who dislike the coach show up over and over to mock me each time I post.

I do enjoy debating on a message board, it is one of the most fun things about it.

I think 2010 will be in the top 2 recruiting classes of all time at TN and I think 2011 will probably be the very best one. I think Bruce Pearl is going to do something very special at TN and I think once he has competent PGs and some depth he will bring back pressure defense that has not executed as well in the SEC since Nolan Richardson was in charge of a dangerous Razorbacks team that no one wanted to play.
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I think Pearl has done a good job at TN. He has taken the program to a particular level and has maintained that level. Too many things happened this year that is beyond his control. However, trying to debate over and over that Alabama, Florida, and, for now TN, are good teams is fruitless. If you watch as many games as you claim, you can clearly see that none of these teams are playing good basketball now. Hopefully, it will improve for the Vols, but I expect every game to be a struggle and for the KY games to be possible blow outs. TN is not a lock for the tournament and clearly Fla and Ala are not and will not make the tournament. Give it up on your constant debate about how great the SEC is, when in fact it simply is not true.
 
#91
#91
emainvol said:
Don't forget Minnesota.
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Yeah, I think Northwestern has things under control. I took Minnesota and Illinois and flipped the coin so to speak, because I don't see both of them getting in. As Hat pointed out they have an easy schedule, which is something I have not looked at as of yet.
 
#92
#92
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Instead of blowing you off like normal, I will attempt to find some middle ground here.

First of all, I don't "think" I know basketball. I know it quite well.

As you point out accurately, I do not use the quote feature well. I will just reply in bold. I do enjoy talking about basketball with you and you seem to know a good deal and be worth listening to.

Thats my best version of an olive branch. TIFWIW.

Thank you

As for this continued debate, I will state my own opinions so that you can no longer be confused or group me in with other peoples prognostications.

The debate about which conference is stronger is not as black and white as you make it out to be. I'm not convinced that a contest of "who gets more tourney teams in" is a clear winner of conference superiority. Perhaps in the eyes of the media, or your eyes, it is. I don't see it that way.

It is tough to judge conference strength. I have stated before that I am in some ways here trying to stir the pot. If I wanted to state things that could not be debated, I would say that the Big East is the best conference or that the Pac 10 is worse than the SEC

I judge it by the style of basketball thats played. Fundamental basketball. Its obvious watching Wisconsin play that while they will never set the world on fire with excitement, they play so well fundamentally that they would run roughshod over most all of the SEC on a nightly basis.
This is something I think almost all of the Bruce Pearl critics on here who are knowledgable about basketball share. I HATE watching Wisconsin play basketball, but I know that in many ways it requires much more in terms of coaching to get guys to play that perfectly within a system than to "coach up" effort, let guys rip 3 pointers whenever they feel like it and start halfcourt offensive plays after most of the shot clock has expired. You all see much more to like in Wisconsin's coach than in Pearl. I can see lots that is admirable in Bo Ryan, but I do not think he would ever be able to bring in the talent that Bruce is going to get in 2010, 2011, 2012 etc playing that style. I want superstars at UT, I want a top 25 program and I think Bruce will get us there. I also find his system when he can run it (not last year or this year) to be VERY fun to watch

On a whole, even though the SEC has more teams with better records, I see more teams in the Big 10 that have the ability to play at a higher level. I believe the Big Ten to be slightly deeper.
I like that this is not a dogmatic statement. It is hard to rail against someone saying that the Big 10 is slightly deeper. I disagree, but it boils down to how we both feel about Miss schools, the bottom of the Big 10 versus the bottom of the SEC, and the group of 4 I keep harping on in the middle of the Big 10. I think also that you may revisit that at the end of the year.

Ole Miss just lost to Arkansas, who quite frankly is one of the worst three teams in this league. I just don't think that outside of UK/UT there is much to be confident about.
I think you are actually like me an SEC basketball fan. I think last year broke your heart somewhat and you were prepared to be upset by a weak conference again. Florida is not a Final 4 type team, but they are lots better than last year, and the SEC has MUCH better OOC victories. If Arkansas had their current roster all year, I think Pelphrey has 5 more wins at this point.

As for the amount of tournament teams that get in from each conference, AT THIS POINT.....I don't see 6 getting in from the Big Ten. There are 4 teams guaranteed and two other teams (Northwestern/Illinois) that are battling for the #5 spot. Its possible that somebody puts a good run together and gets in at a #6 spot.

Either of these leagues getting 6 teams in is a good possibility, due mainly to the complete collapse of the PAC 10 conference. There will be some open spots that are normally filled by the PAC 10.

As for the SEC at this point, its a solid 4 with a very very good possibility of 5 teams. 6 is not out of the question. But 8-8 teams in the SEC normally do not make the tourney, unless the go undefeated in the OOC schedule. I just don't see 6 happening.

All of these "predictions" are based upon the fact that a darkhorse with no shot does not win their respective tournaments.

As for your arguments with others concerning their predictions, some of those were made early as you stated.

When someone said the SEC might only get 3 teams in I agreed and said its a good possibility. Because at that time the SEC was sucking in a major way, and the Big Ten was rolling along.

So there ya have it. Mark it down, do whatever you want with it.

For some reason I feel dirty now.
Click to expand...

Please do not feel dirty! That was the most fun I have had talking with you about basketball since most everyone ganged up on me for saying how incredible John Wall is. :)
 
#94
#94
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Yeah, I think Northwestern has things under control. I took Minnesota and Illinois and flipped the coin so to speak, because I don't see both of them getting in. As Hat pointed out they have an easy schedule, which is something I have not looked at as of yet.
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All Minnesota has to do is win the games they are significant favorites in and split their home games against Wisconsin and Purdue. That'll get them in the field.
 
#95
#95
I don't see a team from the SEC - West in the NCAA tourney, unless someone catches fire and runs the table.
 
#96
#96
hatvol96 said:
I'd love to see evidence anyone said UTEP was bad.
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http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-basketball/87880-sec-big-ten-challenge-7.html

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-basketball/91196-poor-sec-sucks-2.html

Not going to make the NCAAs and not a good win...

By the way, how is the UVA will finish at the bottom of the ACC prediction looking?

Minnesota will ride the big wins over Butler and St. Joes?

Miami and Indiana will not be bad losses?

Feb 6 @Penn St. 2:00 PM they should win
Feb 11 Michigan 7:00 PM could lose
Feb 14 @Northwestern 5:00 PM should lose
Feb 18 Wisconsin 9:00 PM probably lose
Feb 20 Indiana TBA already lost but should win easily
Feb 24 Purdue 8:30 PM should lose
Feb 27 @Illinois TBA should lose
Mar 3 @Michigan TBA should lose
Mar 7 Iowa 6:00 PM easily win...

Hat I do not think you look at the Big Ten schedule when you say Minnesota has an easy path. If they get 12 losses and no big victories they have no shot at the tournament.

How can you act like Illinois and Michigan are good teams and then say that Minnesota should be able to win on the road against them? This is a team that lost at Indiana! They have a nice road win against Butler but they got drilled by Purdue and drilled by Ohio State. You are looking at a different club if you think Tubby will have an easy time winning back to back against the Illini and Michigan on the road.
 
#97
#97
DevilDogHog said:
I don't see a team from the SEC - West in the NCAA tourney, unless someone catches fire and runs the table.
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Huh? If Alabama ran the table THEY would make the tournament (which is absurd but...)

The bulldawgs of Ms. State have a bad OOC schedule but usually at San Diego and at UCLA victories mean more. Old Dominion is a win that has held up well. The Rider loss will not keep them out of the tournament. What would keep them out is a collapse. They are 16-5...

Feb 3 @Vanderbilt 8:00 PM L
Feb 6 @Florida 1:30 PM W
Feb 11 Mississippi 9:00 PM L
Feb 13 Auburn 7:00 PM W
Feb 16 Kentucky 9:00 PM L
Feb 20 @LSU 4:00 PM W
Feb 24 Alabama 9:00 PM W
Feb 27 @South Carolina 6:00 PM W
Mar 3 @Auburn 8:00 PM W
Mar 6 Tennessee 6:00 PM L

If they finished like this, with an SEC record of 10-6 they will be in the tournament...

Ole Miss is 16-5 and beat Kansas State and UTEP out of conference.

Two of their losses are at Villanova and at West Virginia.

Feb 2 @Kentucky 7:00 PM L
Feb 6 Alabama 6:00 PM W
Feb 11 @Mississippi St. 9:00 PM W
Feb 18 Vanderbilt 7:00 PM L
Feb 20 Florida 12:00 PM W
Feb 24 Auburn 8:00 PM W
Feb 27 @Alabama 2:00 PM L
Mar 4 LSU 9:00 PM W
Mar 6 @Arkansas 4:00 PM W

A 22 win Ole Miss is going to get in.

LSU and Auburn would be shocking upsets to beat either Miss team the rest of the way. Everyone else has a chance to beat them, but these are pretty good teams.
 
#98
#98
I still don't know where this Virginia thing came from, I don't recall anyone predicting they will finish at the bottom of the ACC. Most of the posters that you direct this stuff at are fans of Tony Bennett.
 
#99
#99
Also, playing at San Diego does not "usually mean more" They have been a middling WCC school for years who happened to get lucky and beat Gonzaga then win a game in the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago.

Edit: They did go to the tourney in 02 too, and lost to Stanford in the first round. They were an 11 loss squad that year.
 
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#100
#100
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Huh? If Alabama ran the table THEY would make the tournament (which is absurd but...)

The bulldawgs of Ms. State have a bad OOC schedule but usually at San Diego and at UCLA victories mean more. Old Dominion is a win that has held up well. The Rider loss will not keep them out of the tournament. What would keep them out is a collapse. They are 16-5...

Feb 3 @Vanderbilt 8:00 PM L
Feb 6 @Florida 1:30 PM W
Feb 11 Mississippi 9:00 PM L
Feb 13 Auburn 7:00 PM W
Feb 16 Kentucky 9:00 PM L
Feb 20 @LSU 4:00 PM W
Feb 24 Alabama 9:00 PM W
Feb 27 @South Carolina 6:00 PM W
Mar 3 @Auburn 8:00 PM W
Mar 6 Tennessee 6:00 PM L

If they finished like this, with an SEC record of 10-6 they will be in the tournament...

Ole Miss is 16-5 and beat Kansas State and UTEP out of conference.

Two of their losses are at Villanova and at West Virginia.

Feb 2 @Kentucky 7:00 PM L
Feb 6 Alabama 6:00 PM W
Feb 11 @Mississippi St. 9:00 PM W
Feb 18 Vanderbilt 7:00 PM L
Feb 20 Florida 12:00 PM W
Feb 24 Auburn 8:00 PM W
Feb 27 @Alabama 2:00 PM L
Mar 4 LSU 9:00 PM W
Mar 6 @Arkansas 4:00 PM W

A 22 win Ole Miss is going to get in.

LSU and Auburn would be shocking upsets to beat either Miss team the rest of the way. Everyone else has a chance to beat them, but these are pretty good teams.
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Bottom line, both of these teams have to get 10 wins in the conference to get in the tourney. Ole Miss MIGHT slide by with 9 because of their K-State win, and SOS with their losses to Nova and WV.

Earlier in this thread I called Ole Miss a lock, only to find that they lost at home to Arkansas. As Hat pointed out, they can now play themselves right out of the tournament. If they can lose to Arkansas at home, they can certainly lose to Bama and UF, and Miss St at their place. 8-8 Will not cut it.

Both the SEC and BIG 10 have teams that are on the bubble, that can either take things in their own hands or shoot themselves in the foot over and over again.

That sounds cliche, but it is what it is.

As for the poster above who said NO team from the West would make it, thats crazy talk. Someone from the west is going to make it, unless wheels fall off the wagon in every direction.
 
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