Quality Win Update for SEC teams

#101
#101
emainvol said:
Also, playing at San Diego does not "usually mean more" They have been a middling WCC school for years who happened to get lucky and beat Gonzaga then win a game in the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago.

Edit: They did go to the tourney in 02 too, and lost to Stanford in the first round. They were an 11 loss squad that year.
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San Diego makes big splashes here and there, but consistency has never been a strong point it seems. There are worse wins you could have, but I can't qualify that as a good win.

As for the Virginia thing, I don't recall any discussion about them. Do not recall.
 
#103
#103
UTLCA said:
A. NC State is not a good win.
B. DePaul is not a great win.
C. "Only great victory is Richmond" WTH?
D. Providence is not a good win.
E. UVA is not a good win,

You cannot overvalue wins like this and then compare them to the Big Ten. I know what the comparison will look like and it won't work.
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This is where the UVA talk started...Mr Amnesia replied with

hatvol96 said:
A. NC State will finish 11th or 12th in the ACC.
B. DePaul lost to Florida Gulf Coast, with Koshwal playing. They'll be lucky to win 4 Big East games.
C. Richmond has some really nice wins. They also have some inexcusable losses.
D. Providence is slightly better than DePaul.
E. Virginia will finish 11th or 12th in the ACC.

Please tell me nobody is trying to pass wins over those teams off as resume builders.
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http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-basketball/91196-poor-sec-sucks.html

BigPapaVol said:
UTEP is better than I believed. Big 10 is only marginally better than the SEC and both suck. Ohio State and Michigan state are very good.
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BPV mocked me for calling UTEP a good win, I pointed out their roster and told him to look again. Unlike some on this board, he admits when he makes a mistake.


"Where did I say that Lon Kruger has the 4th or 5th best job in the MWC?" Hmmm...I already linked that piece of prognosticating glory...UNLV has the best tradition in the conference and is the only MW team that can argue historical greatness not just goodness...

Maybe he can point out a few individual games won by a Big 10 team and try to infer something from that. Purdue beat TN so that means the Big 10 is better than the SEC right?
 
#104
#104
Real time RPI is a site mentioned by Emain. Not sure how accurate their RPI is but

Purdue (17-3, 9), Michigan St. (19-3, 10), Wisconsin (16-5, 13), Ohio St. (15-6, 40), Minnesota (13-7, 55)
thats where they have it today

and the SEC
Kentucky (20-1, 7), Vanderbilt (15-4, 15), Tennessee (15-4, 25), Mississippi (16-4, 30), Florida (15-5, 52), South Carolina (13-8, 59)

They also have Florida State at 29 in the RPI...

RealTimeRPI.com Bracketology - Basketball tournament bracket: 's College Basketball Rating Percentage Index (RPI) Ratings - A leading sports ratings and resources community on the Internet

Thats the team that sucks if you read the SEC sucks thread. I was being facetious with the thread title, the posters ripping FSU were serious.
 
#105
#105
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Real time RPI is a site mentioned by Emain. Not sure how accurate their RPI is but

Purdue (17-3, 9), Michigan St. (19-3, 10), Wisconsin (16-5, 13), Ohio St. (15-6, 40), Minnesota (13-7, 55)
thats where they have it today

and the SEC
Kentucky (20-1, 7), Vanderbilt (15-4, 15), Tennessee (15-4, 25), Mississippi (16-4, 30), Florida (15-5, 52), South Carolina (13-8, 59)

They also have Florida State at 29 in the RPI...

RealTimeRPI.com Bracketology - Basketball tournament bracket: 's College Basketball Rating Percentage Index (RPI) Ratings - A leading sports ratings and resources community on the Internet

Thats the team that sucks if you read the SEC sucks thread. I was being facetious with the thread title, the posters ripping FSU were serious.
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I mentioned realtimerpi.com because some posters on this board think the rpi is worth a damn. If I am going to look at computer rankings, I go by kenpom. Much better.

Speaking of admitting when you are wrong, would you like to retract your statement about San Diego?
 
#106
#106
Come on with this. The top 4 teams I the Big 10 are very good to great teams. The top 1 in the SEC can claim that. The depth thing us crap with road play and the three point line. Beyond the top teams, everybody can beat everybody else.
 
#107
#107
BigPapaVol said:
Come on with this. The top 4 teams I the Big 10 are very good to great teams. The top 1 in the SEC can claim that. The depth thing us crap with road play and the three point line. Beyond the top teams, everybody can beat everybody else.
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That's a good way to think about it.
 
#109
#109
Fullfillmer said:
So, that tells me that you likely didn't graduate from UK.
I didn't ask you to prove anything, simply asked you to answer my questions. Again, I am pretty sure that they discuss bball on the KY forums and if you are compelled to be an as- then that is where you need to be. Sorry to interrupt your private tea party and discussion of the subtleties (sp) of NCAA qualifying requirements. Do you ever let others join and have opinions or is everyone who visits simply given your contempt?
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What year did you get your UT diploma?
 
#110
#110
It eludes me why people seem to think wisconsin is significantly better than tennessee or vanderbilt. Neither team has a loss close to as bad as wisconsin green bay...
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#113
#113
MikeHamiltonFan said:
It eludes me why people seem to think wisconsin is significantly better than tennessee or vanderbilt. Neither team has a loss close to as bad as wisconsin green bay...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Here is where the train always comes off the tracks when it comes to your ideas and how I view them. You always want to quantify things with "A win" against such and such, or a "loss" against such and such. You want to base an entire season and team analysis based on one game?

Everyone has bad games, and can lose to almost anyone at any given time. If UK had lost to Miami OH or Stanford, would you be crazy enough to say that they are not better than TN because of that one loss? I would hope not. You simply cannot justify a teams worth based on one win or loss.

If you watch Wisconsin play, they have a coach who does everything by the letter. They play awesome fundamental basketball.

Wisconsin is a team that plays sound defense. Rebounds proficiently. Slows the game down to their pace, with great transition defense. The things they do, they do it VERY WELL. They stick to a game plan, and make it hard to beat them.

Tennessee is a team, even with the advantage of talent that quite frankly does none of these things at a truly proficient level on a consistent basis. They do somethings good sometimes, but quite frankly they have nothing to hang their hat on. On a nightly basis you have to wonder what Chism is going to do. Play the post, or have his own personal 3 point contest. Is Hopson going to show up at all? Will Bobby Maze outplay Sheron Collins or look like Michael Porter? Will Pearl continue to employ strategies that are doomed to fail (Press defense) or make adjustments? There are just to many variables.

Bash Bo Ryan/Tom Izzo type coaches all you want. I will take their fundamentally sound teams all day long versus teams who have no real identity.

I'm not saying UT can't BE a better team, I'm simply saying right now they are not.
 
#114
#114
MikeHamiltonFan said:
It eludes me why people seem to think wisconsin is significantly better than tennessee or vanderbilt. Neither team has a loss close to as bad as wisconsin green bay...
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Because they bring what they bring consistently. UT and Vandy are exactly opposite from that.
 
#118
#118
Projecting the Field: Mounting losses build mountain for Heels - NCAA Division I Mens Basketball - CBSSports.com

New Cbssports bracket.
6 from the SEC and 4 from the Big Ten.

They have TN playing St. Marys in a tough opening game, then likely Wisconsin, then Villanova....Tough road!

Would I be happy playing Wisconsin right now? Yes.

The best win they had that I was VERY impressed with (and watched some of) was against Duke when they just murdered them...however I also just watch Duke get humiliated by Georgetown.

Date Opponent Result / Time Record Tickets
Nov 15 IPFW Won 75-46 1-0
Nov 18 Oakland Won 58-42 2-0
Nov 24 Arizona Won 65-61 3-0 Okay so this is supposed to be the worst AZ team right?
Nov 24 @Gonzaga Lost 61-74 3-1
Nov 25 @Maryland Won 78-69 4-1
Dec 2 Duke Won 73-69 5-1
Dec 5 Grambling Won 79-46 6-1
Dec 9 @Green Bay Lost 84-88 6-2
Dec 12 Marquette Won 72-63 7-2
Dec 16 Cal Poly Won 90-42 8-2
Dec 23 UW-Milwaukee Won 68-58 9-2
Dec 27 Ill.-Chicago Won 79-43 10-2
Dec 31 Ohio St. Won 65-43 11-2 (1-0)
Jan 3 @Penn St. Won 63-46 12-2 (2-0)
Jan 6 @Michigan St. Lost 47-54 12-3 (2-1)
Jan 9 Purdue Won 73-66 13-3 (3-1)
Jan 13 @Northwestern Won 60-50 14-3 (4-1)
Jan 16 @Ohio St. Lost 51-60 14-4 (4-2)
Jan 20 Michigan Won 54-48 15-4 (5-2)
Jan 24 Penn St. Won 79-71 16-4 (6-2)
Jan 28 @Purdue Lost 57-60 16-5 (6-3)
Feb 2 Michigan St. 9:00 PM
Feb 6 @Michigan 4:00 PM
Feb 9 Illinois 7:00 PM
Feb 13 Indiana 2:00 PM
Feb 18 @Minnesota 9:00 PM
Feb 21 Northwestern 2:00 PM
Feb 25 @Indiana 9:00 PM
Mar 3 Iowa 8:30 PM
Mar 6 @Illinois TBA


They have a win against Arizona that is not supposed to mean much this year. They lost to a Gonzaga team that has plenty of talent but who I do not think is much better than TN. If you really want to see why the transitive property does not work at all in CBB look at Duke v. Wisconsin, Wisconsin v. Gonzaga and Duke v. Gonzaga...

They beat Ohio State when Evan Turner was out, and lost to Ohio State when he was back. They have another good win against Purdue at home, but it was not overwhelming.

In short I do not think they are consistently excellent. I think Wisconsin is a good team, and I think Tennessee is a good team. I find it very hard for anyone to argue that Wisconsin is a better team.

If they do not lose the rest of the season I would believe, but I do not think they are going to. They have one great road win against Maryland, and the Terps are as schizo as any team in CBB. I do not count NW as a great road win, because I think that for yet another year in their long and horrible history the Wildcats are not an NCAA team.

I will not argue with anyone who says that Ohio State with Evan Turner is better than TN. I hope that Scotty Hopson can grow into a player like Turner by his senior year, that guy is scary good. I also am stunned how fast he came back from a broken back.

I think I have more respect than most on here for Purdue. I thought Michigan State would drop several Big 10 games and so far I have been wrong. I think Ohio State is amazing and I think Wisconsin is very good.

And no Western Kentucky is not NEARLY as bad emotionally as Wisconsin Green Bay. Try if TN lost on the road at ETSU for an idea of how horrible that loss is. The Phoenix are not even making too much noise in the Horizon at this point. Western Kentucky had more fans in Nashville than Vanderbilt.

Stallings is a coach whose fans do not deserve a super successful run. They are anemic at best.
 
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#120
#120
This very thread has Hat engaging in the same type of analysis but no one said anything. Kind of funny.

One game does not define a team, one season does define a team enough that it is the basis upon which their inclusion or exclusion from "the only games that matter" happens.

The Big 10 does not have good enough teams to get 6 in.
 
#121
#121
MikeHamiltonFan said:
This very thread has Hat engaging in the same type of analysis but no one said anything. Kind of funny.

One game does not define a team, one season does define a team enough that it is the basis upon which their inclusion or exclusion from "the only games that matter" happens.

The Big 10 does not have good enough teams to get 6 in.
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Very few have said anything. Sigle game analysis is generally worthless. You know it. I know it. Hat knows it. Trends are college hoops. 6 game scenarios require consistet effort and consistent game plans.
 
#123
#123
Remember, MHF doesn't let facts get into the way with his predictions. Just humor him and agree that the SEC is better and maybe he will finally shut up.
 
#125
#125
MikeHamiltonFan said:
They beat Ohio State when Evan Turner was out, and lost to Ohio State when he was back. They have another good win against Purdue at home, but it was not overwhelming.

In short I do not think they are consistently excellent. I think Wisconsin is a good team, and I think Tennessee is a good team. I find it very hard for anyone to argue that Wisconsin is a better team.

If they do not lose the rest of the season I would believe, but I do not think they are going to. They have one great road win against Maryland,
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I'm glad you brought this up. I'm not saying this sarcastically, (Well, maybe a little) but I am going to throw back at you EXACTLY what you threw at me.

You say that you can't understand how Wisconsin is better than TN because they have a worse "loss' than UT.

Well, going by the SAME criteria you have used just now, I say this.

Purdue beat UT. Wisconsin beat Purdue. Therefore, Wisconsin > Tennessee. Acceptable? This keeps consistent with your own examples.

Now I know your going to turn around with another long post trying to argue against this point and how thats not REALLY what you meant.

This is the frustration we face over and over again with your analysis.
 
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