question about Christianity

#401
#401
If a fat girl in the woods falls down and there's nobody around does God laugh?
 
#404
#404
mtt2d said:
God loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were born.
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This in no way does anything for your argument; however, I am curious as to how you have come to this conclusion.

Book, chapter, and verse, please.
 
#405
#405
therealUT said:
This in no way does anything for your argument; however, I am curious as to how you have come to this conclusion.

Book, chapter, and verse, please.
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Genesis 25:23 is the promise. Genesis 28:3 & 4 is the blessing.
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#406
#406
mtt2d said:
Genesis 25:23 is the promise. Genesis 28:3 & 4 is the blessing.
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22

But the children in her womb jostled each other so much that she exclaimed, "If this is to be so, what good will it do me!" She went to consult the LORD,

23

and he answered her: "Two nations are in your womb, two peoples are quarreling while still within you; But one shall surpass the other, and the older shall serve the younger."
...
3

May God Almighty bless you and make you fertile, multiply you that you may become an assembly of peoples.

4

May he extend to you and your descendants the blessing he gave to Abraham, so that you may gain possession of the land where you are staying, which he assigned to Abraham."
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Malachi 1:
3

Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for jackals.
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Romans 9:
13

As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau."
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I am not sure where you get that God hated Esau before Esau was born.

First, I am not sure the terms "before" and "after" should or do apply to such a Being, as such a being is not constrained by the conditions of space and time.

Setting that aside, though, if Yahweh is somehow subject to the space-time continuum, then he is not omnipotent not omniscient. On top of that, if He hated Esau before Esau was born, Yahweh either hates Esau before Esau acts or he has made it possible that the only path in life for Esau is to act un-righteously (thus, somehow deserving rejection from Yahweh), therefore, stripping away free-will (which, one would presumably not want to strip away if they are going to try to argue that God is both omnibenevolent and a Being that allows evil).
 
#407
#407
therealUT said:
Malachi 1:


Romans 9:


I am not sure where you get that God hated Esau before Esau was born.

First, I am not sure the terms "before" and "after" should or do apply to such a Being, as such a being is not constrained by the conditions of space and time.

Setting that aside, though, if Yahweh is somehow subject to the space-time continuum, then he is not omnipotent not omniscient. On top of that, if He hated Esau before Esau was born, Yahweh either hates Esau before Esau acts or he has made it possible that the only path in life for Esau is to act un-righteously (thus, somehow deserving rejection from Yahweh), therefore, stripping away free-will (which, one would presumably not want to strip away if they are going to try to argue that God is both omnibenevolent and a Being that allows evil).
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God predestined that Jacob would inherit the land, and Esau would join Ishmael before either had done any good or evil.
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#408
#408
mtt2d said:
God predestined that Jacob would inherit the land, and Esau would join Ishmael before either had done any good or evil.
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Inshaallah.gif
 
#410
#410
Originally Posted by :
3

Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for jackals.


Does this not involve the use of a Hebrew Idiom?

When a father has 2 sons and makes one his heir, he is said to love the one he made his heir and hate the other. The love and hate spoken in this verse actually has nothing to do with the emotions of love and hate.
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#411
#411
Gramps said:
Originally Posted by :
3

Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for jackals.


Does this not involve the use of a Hebrew Idiom?

When a father has 2 sons and makes one his heir, he is said to love the one he made his heir and hate the other. The love and hate spoken in this verse actually has nothing to do with the emotions of love and hate.
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If he didn't hate Esau in the modern sense, then why did he make his mountains a waste and his heritage a desert for jackals? Effectively saying that Jacob gets everything while Esau gets nothing. Does not sound like any sorty of fatherly love to me.
 
#412
#412
VOLatile said:
If he didn't hate Esau in the modern sense, then why did he make his mountains a waste and his heritage a desert for jackals? Effectively saying that Jacob gets everything while Esau gets nothing. Does not sound like any sorty of fatherly love to me.
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In Genensis 25: 29-34 Esau sold his birthright to Jacob. The birthright involved the right as head if the family and a double share of the inheritance. This stripped Esau of the headship of the people through which Messiah would come. The lineage became Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Jacob became the bearer of God's promises and inheritor of Canaan.
Esau inherited the less fertile land of Edom.
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#413
#413
Trouble no one about their religion;

respect others in their view and demand that they respect yours.
 
#417
#417
my comments in this thread are for the sole purpose because calling Christianity crazy because of the components added to the "supernatural"..... when looking through the natural laws glasses your belief is just as absurd.. and truly its apples and oranges...AT LEAST until "natural laws" fill in the gap in your belief.
 
#418
#418
Is it anymore crazy to believe that the universe always is/was than it is to believe god always is/was? Why does the universe have to have a beginning and god doesn't?
 
#420
#420
ImTheCrew said:
Exactly, same concept.
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I understand the difference from the science perspective. Science attempts to explain things using the laws of nature, the idea that something always is/was is not a valid scientific explanation. Everything must have a beginning and end. Something had to have caused the universe into existence, so science quests to find the answer and prove it.

Its the Christian/religion angle I'm trying to understand. "If god didn't exist, then what created the universe?" From that perspective, I don't understand why something had to create the universe, if nothing had to create god. I'd love to hear some thoughts on it.
 
#421
#421
I suppose the defense mechanism says that god has always been... And our mind can not comprehend infinity.
 
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#423
#423
Natural Law is concerned with a priori notions; it is not empiricism.

Not a single person possesses the a priori concept of a particle begetting itself; to try to conjure up such an image would be to beget the particle in your mind. Not a single person possesses the concept of a particle moving itself; to try to conjure up such an event would be to move the particle in your mind.
 
#424
#424
ImTheCrew said:
my comments in this thread are for the sole purpose because calling Christianity crazy because of the components added to the "supernatural"..... when looking through the natural laws glasses your belief is just as absurd.. and truly its apples and oranges...AT LEAST until "natural laws" fill in the gap in your belief.
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Try to look at the world without any a priori concepts...good luck!
 
#425
#425
VOLatile said:
If he didn't hate Esau in the modern sense, then why did he make his mountains a waste and his heritage a desert for jackals? Effectively saying that Jacob gets everything while Esau gets nothing. Does not sound like any sorty of fatherly love to me.
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what you're ignorant about (amongst many, many things) is that humans have free will and you have to understand that satan also influences our free will.
 
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