question about Christianity

what you're ignorant about (amongst many, many things) is that humans have free will and you have to understand that satan also influences our free will.

How does this explain suffering that is not caused by human actions? Is it not possible for an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent Being to create a world where there are no earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, floods, droughts, famine, etc?

The greater majority of human suffering is not the result of human-on-human violence; it is the result of "earth-on-human" violence. The free will argument provides justification (and, weak justification at that) for a minority of human suffering (more individuals were killed by influenza from 1919-1921 than were killed in the entirety of WWI).
 
How does this explain suffering that is not caused by human actions? Is it not possible for an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent Being to create a world where there are no earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, floods, droughts, famine, etc?

The greater majority of human suffering is not the result of human-on-human violence; it is the result of "earth-on-human" violence. The free will argument provides justification (and, weak justification at that) for a minority of human suffering (more individuals were killed by influenza from 1919-1921 than were killed in the entirety of WWI).

he did create a perfect world. what you fail to understand is that when man sinned, God cursed the world. God made it clear not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God made it clear not to disobey.

what people don't understand is that God hates sin, he detests it. He hates it to the point that he actually regreted creating humans because of all the sin (Genesis right before the flood) in the world. He said because of man's sin the earth would be cursed. Read Genesis closely and he talks about the earth after sin entered it.

I understand what you're saying. In fact, the disciples asked Jesus the same thing when there was an accident that killed a bunch of people. Jesus Essentially said that people will die because of accident, natural and man made, but you need to assure that you're a Christian.
 
he did create a perfect world. what you fail to understand is that when man sinned, God cursed the world. God made it clear not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God made it clear not to disobey.

You are admitting that God created evil, prior to the transgression, if you admit that it was the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". How can one have knowledge of that which does not exist? Therefore, evil was present before "the fall". It was actually present, in the form of "absolute darkness" one day one of the Genesis account.

what people don't understand is that God hates sin, he detests it. He hates it to the point that he actually regreted creating humans because of all the sin (Genesis right before the flood) in the world. He said because of man's sin the earth would be cursed. Read Genesis closely and he talks about the earth after sin entered it.

Did God know he was going to regret something? Doesn't this mean that God was, at least at one point, not omniscient?

I understand what you're saying. In fact, the disciples asked Jesus the same thing when there was an accident that killed a bunch of people. Jesus Essentially said that people will die because of accident, natural and man made, but you need to assure that you're a Christian.

This is hocus.
 
You are admitting that God created evil, prior to the transgression, if you admit that it was the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". How can one have knowledge of that which does not exist? Therefore, evil was present before "the fall". It was actually present, in the form of "absolute darkness" one day one of the Genesis account.



Did God know he was going to regret something? Doesn't this mean that God was, at least at one point, not omniscient?



This is hocus.

God didn't create evil, as i said, he made man and angels with a free will. Satan was the highest of all the angels and chose to allow pride in heart to the point that he thought he could dethrone God. Satan was also able to convince a 3rd of the angels to side with him. this was while they were in heaven.

as for Adam, I've listend to speakers say that God created the tree to remind humans that though they are free and perfect, they are not God and are still accountable to God.

as for regret, regret isn't a sin. yes he did know that they would sin and turn his back on them, but he created them anyways. he also knew that he would send his son to pay for the sins.

as for Jesus talking to his disciples. maybe you should buy Bible and read it for yourself.
 
God didn't create evil, as i said he made man and angels for that, with a free will. Satan was the highest of all the angels and chose to allow pride in heart to the point that he thought he could dethrone God. Satan was also able to convince a 3rd of the angels to side with him.

Did God create Satan?

as for Adam, I've listend to speakers say that God created the tree to remind humans that though they are free and perfect, they are not God and are still accountable to God.

I listen to reason.

as for regret, regret isn't a sin. yes he did know that they would sin and turn his back on them, but he created them anyways. he also knew that he would send his son to pay for the sins.

I never said regret is a sin; I stated that for God to have regret would be for God not to be omniscient.

as for Jesus talking to his disciples. maybe you should buy Bible and read it for yourself.

Oh, I've read it. I just do not grant it authority. Since I do not grant it that authority, I do not grant it the privilege to override contradictions nor reason.
 
Did God create Satan?



I listen to reason. :eek:lol:



I never said regret is a sin; I stated that for God to have regret would be for God not to be omniscient.



Oh, I've read it. I just do not grant it authority. Since I do not grant it that authority, I do not grant it the privilege to override contradictions nor reason.


no God did not create satan.

you may have read it, but you'll have a biased toward it so there is no reason to have an discussion, since you'll actually study it with an open mind
 
no God did not create satan.

you may have read it, but you'll have a biased toward it so there is no reason to have an discussion, since you'll actually study it with an open mind

Who created Satan, then? Lucifer was originally one of God's angels, correct? Didn't God create the angels?

If God is the creator, yet did not create Satan, then that must mean that Satan created himself? If God allows Satan, then that either means that God does not know Satan exists, God does not have power over Satan, or that God has a desire to allow evil in the world (therefore, God is not all-good).

Doesn't Christianity express and believe that God is the sole creator and that He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent?

How do you deal with such blatant contradictions between the doctrine and the canon?
 
I suppose the defense mechanism says that god has always been... And our mind can not comprehend infinity.

Interesting. I suppose one can just say the universe has always been...and our mind cannot comprehend infinity, hence why we created the notion of a "God".
 
From the Holy Bible:



1 Corinthians 3:18-20
King James Version (KJV)

18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

OR

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
American Standard Version (ASV)


18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man thinketh that he is wise among you in this world, let him become a fool, that he may become wise.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He that taketh the wise in their craftiness:

20 and again, The Lord knoweth the reasonings of the wise that they are vain.
 
The universe seems like it would have needed to be created? More so than A "god".......

I may not be thinking correctly... But does that make any sense?
 
Well, you pondered about the limitations of human reason and human knowledge. Human reason is obviously limited by the physiology constraints of the human brain. Human knowledge, knowledge contained by oneself (withing their own brain) is limited by both the physiology constraints of the human brain and the experiences of that individual.

However, over the course of written civilized history, humans have gradually increased their collective intelligence by writing or storing their experiences as information for everyone to reference. Unfortunately, humans are not able to record everything nor fully understand all the phenomena within their experiences. Luckily, we have discovered that, like energy, information cannot be destroyed. Furthermore, we know exactly where to find this information within the universe...on the ever expanding boundaries of the universe. Stop for a moment and think what about the possible implications of ALL information being from the moment of the "big bang" until now being saved. Afterlife? Eternal life? I could go on forever. It is utterly fascinating.

Now, the point is that science and religion have historically been at each other throats so to speak. However, it is becoming clear with the rapid expansion of technology, that science and religion are not as far apart as we once thought. In fact, science is on tract to more or less prove or at least strongly imply that many of the themes of world religions (eternal life, predestination compatibly with free will, etc) are in fact rooted in scientific fact. This is not to say that they are exactly as various religions would seem to indicate, but that there is a scientific basis which do not preclude them from being true.

Thus, it is ignorant to dismiss reason, knowledge, or experience based on the relative constraints of the present. As stated above, a couple hundred years ago, science and religion were mortal enemies. However, now that we know there is an ultimate, limitless amount of knowledge/information out there; it is silly to trump human limitations at the present time as an acceptable argument.
 
The universe seems like it would have needed to be created? More so than A "god".......

I may not be thinking correctly... But does that make any sense?

According to religion, if nothing had to create god, then why did something have to create the universe, or man, or anything for that matter? That's my question.
 
According to religion, if nothing had to create god, then why did something have to create the universe, or man, or anything for that matter? That's my question.

Maybe God came from a universe far far away. He just wanted to build something to tinker with so he CREATED our little universe. He then Created a living toy, man, and gave man a feeble little brain, just enough to make man think he has all the answers.
 
Maybe God came from a universe far far away. He just wanted to build something to tinker with so he CREATED our little universe. He then Created a living toy, man, and gave man a feeble little brain, just enough to make man think he has all the answers.

Ephesians 5:22-25 explains that Christ is the head of the wife/church, which is the body. The church has been bought with a price - 1 Corinthians 6:20. Jesus said "no one takes my life, I lay my life down" in John 10:18. Since Jesus is God, He created the earth and all life so that He could lay His life down for His sheep.

John 10:14-16 explains that Jesus knows His sheep, and the sheep know him. Jesus says "I lay my life down for the sheep."
 
Maybe God came from a universe far far away. He just wanted to build something to tinker with so he CREATED our little universe. He then Created a living toy, man, and gave man a feeble little brain, just enough to make man think he has all the answers.

That's crossed my mind before. The only opinion I would hold if that were true then, would be that the lives of humans are only a game to him and why should we worship that?
 
That's crossed my mind before. The only opinion I would hold if that were true then, would be that the lives of humans are only a game to him and why should we worship that?

And why would he send his son to be slaughtered for his toys, or why would he care about what consenting adults do behind doors, or why...or why...or why.....

Its far easier just to say he is made up then to bend your reasons around his existence.

Ockham is clear and decisive here.
 

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