question about Christianity

#26
#26
From the Book Of REM.

you want to go out friday
and you want to go forever.
you know that it sounds childish
that you've dreamt of alligators.
you hope that we are with you
and you hope you're recognised
you want to go forever
you see it in my eyes.
I'm lost in the confusion
and it doesn't seem to matter
you really can't believe it
and you hope it's getting better

you want to trust the doctors
their procedure is the best
but the last try was a failure
and the intern was a mess.
and they did the same to Matthew
and he bled 'til sunday night
they're saying don't be frightened
but you're weakened by the sight of it
you lock into a pattern
and you know that it's the last ditch
you're trying to see through it
and it doesn't make sense
but they're saying don't be frightened
and they're killing alligators
and they're hog-tied
and accepting of the struggle

you want to trust religion
and you know it's allegory
but the people who are followers
have written their own story.
so you look up to the heavens
and you hope that it's a spaceship
and it's something from your childhood
you're thinking don't be frightened

you want to climb the ladder
you want to see forever
you want to go out friday
and you want to go forever.
and you want to cross your dna
to cross your dna with something reptile.
and you're questioning the sciences
and questioning religion
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.
and you want bridge the schism,
a built-in mechanism to protect you.
and you're looking for salvation
and you're looking for deliverance
you're looking for deliverance
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.
you want to climb the ladder
you want to see forever.
you want to go out friday
you want to go forever.
 
#30
#30
OJ said:
When it comes down to the bottom line , I don't understand a lot of the Bible.I have my own questions. To me it's like looking through the glass that is cloudy. I know from the heavens and earth, that it has a designer. I'm sold on the idea that God became a sinless man to die in my place. The big thing is it works for me.
Click to expand...

Do you seek answers to your questions? Or, do you settle for the fact that there will always be questions so there is no point in exhausting yourself?

Do you think that religion is ultimately about finding and then worshipping truth and goodness? Or, do you think that it is about making your life easier, i.e. "works for me"?
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#31
#31
KiffinKiller said:
Because he believes in magic more so than science. Do you need to probe further?
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I didn't realize science had proven how the world was created...or how things began.
Also, what is the official explanation for recorded miracles performed in 33AD? I honestly don't know what the science community says about that stuff. Do they simply call them exaggerations?
Why is it okay for scientists to believe in an unproven theory but it's insane for Christians to believe what they believe.
The only absolute fact is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. Just be respectful of the beliefs of others. Don't call it "magic." That's so condescending, and you know it.
Peace be with you!
 
#32
#32
therealUT said:
Do you seek answers to your questions? Or, do you settle for the fact that there will always be questions so there is no point in exhausting yourself?

Do you think that religion is ultimately about finding and then worshipping truth and goodness? Or, do you think that it is about making your life easier, i.e. "works for me"?
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Click to expand...

I do seek answers to my questions. It makes me being able to cope with life a lot easier.
 
#34
#34
OJ said:
I do seek answers to my questions. It makes me being able to cope with life a lot easier.
Click to expand...

If someone were to prove an inconsistency in your Canon, would you neglect to acknowledge such an inconsistency in order to continue to cope with life with more ease?
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#35
#35
Panthro said:
I didn't realize science had proven how the world was created...or how things began.
Also, what is the official explanation for recorded miracles performed in 33AD? I honestly don't know what the science community says about that stuff. Do they simply call them exaggerations?
Why is it okay for scientists to believe in an unproven theory but it's insane for Christians to believe what they believe.
The only absolute fact is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. Just be respectful of the beliefs of others. Don't call it "magic." That's so condescending, and you know it.
Peace be with you!
Click to expand...

And also with you.

That said, I do not think one can declare with any authority that such miracles occurred (no eyewitness testimony exists; and, the NT stories are not corroborated by any religiously independent texts). Therefore, there is no burden on the scientific community to disprove events that have never been proven.
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#36
#36
therealUT said:
If someone were to prove an inconsistency in your Canon, would you neglect to acknowledge such an inconsistency in order to continue to cope with life with more ease?
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I'd probably not believe in what you considered proof.
 
#37
#37
OJ said:
I'd probably not believe in what you considered proof.
Click to expand...

Showing you passages from your Canon that are inconsistent, where you have already stated that you take the Bible literally, would absolutely amount to proof for you. You can lie to yourself all you want, though.
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#38
#38
Panthro said:
I didn't realize science had proven how the world was created...or how things began.
Also, what is the official explanation for recorded miracles performed in 33AD? I honestly don't know what the science community says about that stuff. Do they simply call them exaggerations?
Why is it okay for scientists to believe in an unproven theory but it's insane for Christians to believe what they believe.
The only absolute fact is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. Just be respectful of the beliefs of others. Don't call it "magic." That's so condescending, and you know it.
Peace be with you!
Click to expand...

What should I call it? I'm no atheist, but I don't believe in all the 'mumbo jumbo' about jesus' magical powers. I'll stick to my existence after death stuff and leave the 7 days stuff to you.
 
#39
#39
Panthro said:
I didn't realize science had proven how the world was created...or how things began.
Also, what is the official explanation for recorded miracles performed in 33AD? I honestly don't know what the science community says about that stuff. Do they simply call them exaggerations?
Why is it okay for scientists to believe in an unproven theory but it's insane for Christians to believe what they believe.
The only absolute fact is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. Just be respectful of the beliefs of others. Don't call it "magic." That's so condescending, and you know it.
Peace be with you!
Click to expand...

I trust in science because it can and has proven and explained things. I can be spiritual, but I'm also a realist and very rational - religion is a great tool for those looking for a purpose and gives hope to those who need it. Faith is powerful - but not rational to me.
 
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#40
#40
I find it interesting that some persons find the terms "magical" and "mythological" offensive when referring to Christianity.
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#41
#41
therealUT said:
And also with you.

That said, I do not think one can declare with any authority that such miracles occurred (no eyewitness testimony exists; and, the NT stories are not corroborated by any religiously independent texts). Therefore, there is no burden on the scientific community to disprove events that have never been proven.
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The Quran speaks of Jesus and his virgin birth.
Millions of Jews profess to follow the Word passed down to Moses, though there is no proof of his existence outside of the OT.
It would take a child-like faith to not at least realize that there's a chance this is all wrong. What's your biggest fear? Mine isn't a spider (though I hate them), a snake, or even the boogie man. It's that all that I believe will turn out to be a lie. I feel confident in my beliefs, but I pray everyday that I can continue to shake doubt.
Jesus was one of two things. He was either who he said he was, or a lying, raving lunatic.
Based on His teachings and what is recorded in the Bible, I just don't believe that this dude was some nutcase.
It also speaks loudly to me that all of his disciples continued to preach His word for the rest of their lives with such passion, even in the face of death. Were they all crazy, and everyone just ate it up? There's a chance of that, sure. I just don't buy that after reading the Bible, and teachings we can see that were passed down from Saint Peter (Jesus's homeboy), who is recognized as the first Pope, and the guy who started the church.

Kiffinkiller, you called it mumbo jumbo and magic again. If you're going to participate in a topic as debatable as this, don't be an ass. It just shows how close-minded you are.
 
#42
#42
Panthro said:
The Quran speaks of Jesus and his virgin birth.
Millions of Jews profess to follow the Word passed down to Moses, though there is no proof of his existence outside of the OT.
It would take a child-like faith to not at least realize that there's a chance this is all wrong. What's your biggest fear? Mine isn't a spider (though I hate them), a snake, or even the boogie man. It's that all that I believe will turn out to be a lie. I feel confident in my beliefs, but I pray everyday that I can continue to shake doubt.
Jesus was one of two things. He was either who he said he was, or a lying, raving lunatic.
Based on His teachings and what is recorded in the Bible, I just don't believe that this dude was some nutcase.
It also speaks loudly to me that all of his disciples continued to preach His word for the rest of their lives with such passion, even in the face of death. Were they all crazy, and everyone just ate it up? There's a chance of that, sure. I just don't buy that after reading the Bible, and teachings we can see that were passed down from Saint Peter (Jesus's homeboy), who is recognized as the first Pope, and the guy who started the church.

Kiffinkiller, you called it mumbo jumbo and magic again. If you're going to participate in a topic as debatable as this, don't be an ass. It just shows how close-minded you are.
Click to expand...

There are more options: he could have never existed; the stories about him could be hyperbole. Every major religion has martyrs; evry major religion cannot be literally true (there are inconsistencies); therefore, proof of martyrs is not proof or literal religious truth.

It is magic; look the word up.
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#43
#43
therealUT said:
There are more options: he could have never existed; the stories about him could be hyperbole. Every major religion has martyrs; evry major religion cannot be literally true (there are inconsistencies); therefore, proof of martyrs is not proof or literal religious truth.

It is magic; look the word up.
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You know as well as I do that calling a miracle "magic" is condescending. Magic is what is used to describe Harry Potter and David Blaine these days. Things that are recognized by all to be fictional. This is about faith in something real.
Why would anyone want to belittle someone's faith? Are people just that insecure, to where they have to feel like a know-it-all about everything?
Kiffinkiller mentioned that science proves things. Sure. But when scientists have tried to prove that Christianity (or even that God) is a myth, the conclusion seems to be..."well, you prove that he IS real."
Why? We have faith in something. That's what faith is. I feel fortunate to live a life of faith.
 
#45
#45
Panthro said:
You know as well as I do that calling a miracle "magic" is condescending. Magic is what is used to describe Harry Potter and David Blaine these days. Things that are recognized by all to be fictional. This is about faith in something real.
Why would anyone want to belittle someone's faith? Are people just that insecure, to where they have to feel like a know-it-all about everything?
Kiffinkiller mentioned that science proves things. Sure. But when scientists have tried to prove that Christianity (or even that God) is a myth, the conclusion seems to be..."well, you prove that he IS real."
Why? We have faith in something. That's what faith is. I feel fortunate to live a life of faith.
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I care little that you feel the use of these terms is condescending, the use is still accurate.
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#46
#46
Panthro said:
You know as well as I do that calling a miracle "magic" is condescending. Magic is what is used to describe Harry Potter and David Blaine these days. Things that are recognized by all to be fictional. This is about faith in something real.
Why would anyone want to belittle someone's faith? Are people just that insecure, to where they have to feel like a know-it-all about everything?
Kiffinkiller mentioned that science proves things. Sure. But when scientists have tried to prove that Christianity (or even that God) is a myth, the conclusion seems to be..."well, you prove that he IS real."
Why? We have faith in something. That's what faith is. I feel fortunate to live a life of faith.
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I don't know why people have sought to prove christianity is a myth. They don't have to - it is a story.
 
#49
#49
Panthro said:
Kiffinkiller, you called it mumbo jumbo and magic again. If you're going to participate in a topic as debatable as this, don't be an ass. It just shows how close-minded you are.
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He's not being an ass... it fits the definition of the word. Actually, you equated magic to fantasy stories (Harry Potter) and an illusionist (David Blaine). What are YOU implying?
 
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#50
#50
KiffinKiller said:
What should I call it? I'm no atheist, but I don't believe in all the 'mumbo jumbo' about jesus' magical powers. I'll stick to my existence after death stuff and leave the 7 days stuff to you.
Click to expand...

KiffinKiller said:
I trust in science because it can and has proven and explained things. I can be spiritual, but I'm also a realist and very rational - religion is a great tool for those looking for a purpose and gives hope to those who need it. Faith is powerful - but not rational to me.
Click to expand...

KiffinKiller said:
I don't know why people have sought to prove christianity is a myth. They don't have to - it is a story.
Click to expand...

Science can and has proven a lot of things but it has not proven that man came from a primate.

Neither can one prove creation.

You believe man came from a monkey.
I believe God created man.

Both are beliefs.

If you want to believe you evolved from a primate, that is your right to do so.
It is also my right to believe that God created man.

To you creation is a myth and story.
Me, I cannot see how anyone can look at this world and all in it , how perfect everything is and believe it just happened.

You believe science will one day prove man evolved from a primate.... that is your faith in a theory.

I believe one day Christ is going to return and bring this world to an end. That is my faith in God.


You say faith is not rational to you... Yet you have faith in a theory... no more -no less... it's a theory.
 
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