question about homosexuality

in your opinion are the gay people born that way or do they make a choice to be gay?

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#501
#501
orangeslice13 said:
Hair color and other physical traits can't be changed. Personality traits can. As I stated earlier I was born in a family of alcoholics. I believe the tendency to be alcoholic is genetic because of the high number of them in my family. Some will argue that gay people can't change their feelings but I know 2 who have. And futher more my cousin Todd drank himself to death so I know alcoholics that can't change. In my mind being predisposed to a sin doesn't excuse you from it.

This is very important. I don't get to say what is or is not a sin for you. For me I feel homosexuality would be a sin. You would need to decide if it was for you.
In the same way I have no intrest in trying to convince anyone that drinking is bad for them or a sin. If they decide not to drink and need help I'm there for them.
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I appreciate your beliefs and the way you have framed your feelings on the matter. I really do get where you are coming from with this. You have known two people who have apparently changed their sexual attractions per their own words. Of course that is going to have a direct impact on your feelings toward choice/no choice. What is a bit strange is the fact I have never met anyone who says they have changed their sexual attractions; certainly some who were married and led straight lives, but they all claimed they were always attracted to the same sex and were simply trying to live a 'normal' life. I am in no way disputing the feelings of the folks you know, and think it would be interesting to discuss the topic with them.

Like I have mentioned before I fought it for many years, tried my best to find attraction in the opposite sex, but simply never could. I absolutely felt homosexuality was a sin for most of my life, and is a primary reason I fought it as hard as I did. Ultimately, however, I accepted that this was how I was created and nothing was going to change that.

I like what you said about each person deciding what is a sin for them. I think that is very reflective of my situation; after years of fighting and seeing no change whatsoever, I accepted this is who I am. Why would I be created this way with the expectation that I either choose a life of celibacy or enter into a heterosexual relationship in which I could never give fully to a partner? That was the question for me, so personally I felt a loving God would never do that (assuming there is a God). I certainly could be wrong, but the decision I made.
 
#502
#502
gcbvol said:
I appreciate your beliefs and the way you have framed your feelings on the matter. I really do get where you are coming from with this. You have known two people who have apparently changed their sexual attractions per their own words. Of course that is going to have a direct impact on your feelings toward choice/no choice. What is a bit strange is the fact I have never met anyone who says they have changed their sexual attractions; certainly some who were married and led straight lives, but they all claimed they were always attracted to the same sex and were simply trying to live a 'normal' life. I am in no way disputing the feelings of the folks you know, and think it would be interesting to discuss the topic with them.

Like I have mentioned before I fought it for many years, tried my best to find attraction in the opposite sex, but simply never could. I absolutely felt homosexuality was a sin for most of my life, and is a primary reason I fought it as hard as I did. Ultimately, however, I accepted that this was how I was created and nothing was going to change that.

I like what you said about each person deciding what is a sin for them. I think that is very reflective of my situation; after years of fighting and seeing no change whatsoever, I accepted this is who I am. Why would I be created this way with the expectation that I either choose a life of celibacy or enter into a heterosexual relationship in which I could never give fully to a partner? That was the question for me, so personally I felt a loving God would never do that (assuming there is a God). I certainly could be wrong, but the decision I made.
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I have enough garbage in my own life that I don't have time to worry about others. That's why I always speak in terms of what is right for me.

To be clear of my 3 friends that are gay. The 2 that now have attractions to the opposite sex still have homosexual feelings. So if they are being honest, and I have no reason to doubt they are, I would say they added or evolved but not changed.

I appreciate the way you conduct yourself. To many people on here spew hate and argue their point of view but very few listen. I want to grow as a person. How can that happen if I don't hear what others are saying. We may not agree but we can still be buddies.
 
#503
#503
orangeslice13 said:
I have enough garbage in my own life that I don't have time to worry about others. That's why I always speak in terms of what is right for me.

To be clear of my 3 friends that are gay. The 2 that now have attractions to the opposite sex still have homosexual feelings. So if they are being honest, and I have no reason to doubt they are, I would say they added or evolved but not changed.

I appreciate the way you conduct yourself. To many people on here spew hate and argue their point of view but very few listen. I want to grow as a person. How can that happen if I don't hear what others are saying. We may not agree but we can still be buddies.
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Agreed. People will always have differing opinions on hot topic issues such as this. The key is being able to discuss in a civil manner - this is important in terms of learning and growing. Thanks for that.
 
#504
#504
orangeslice13 said:
I have enough garbage in my own life that I don't have time to worry about others. That's why I always speak in terms of what is right for me.

To be clear of my 3 friends that are gay. The 2 that now have attractions to the opposite sex still have homosexual feelings. So if they are being honest, and I have no reason to doubt they are, I would say they added or evolved but not changed.

I appreciate the way you conduct yourself. To many people on here spew hate and argue their point of view but very few listen. I want to grow as a person. How can that happen if I don't hear what others are saying. We may not agree but we can still be buddies.
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I think the term to describe your 2 frinds is bi-sexual
 
#508
#508
slh1089 said:
To me, I do not see how bisexuality is natural. I am also friends with many homosexuals who agree with this.
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Do you need to understand how bisexuality is natural? If it's natural for some to be born attracted to the opposite sex, and natural that some are born attracted to the same sex, why must it be unnatural for some to be born attracted to both sexes? There are many complexities we don't understand, but they still exist. Is it natural that a child be born with both a penis and a vagina? You would think not, but it occurs in nature. If it occurs in nature, then is it not natural?

I would be curious about people's views on hermaphrodites, especially those who view homosexuality as a sin. I don't believe I've ever heard a religious viewpoint explaining their existence. How do you reconcile their existence with your faith? Not trying to insult, just curious.
 
#509
#509
Weezer said:
Do you need to understand how bisexuality is natural? If it's natural for some to be born attracted to the opposite sex, and natural that some are born attracted to the same sex, why must it be unnatural for some to be born attracted to both sexes? There are many complexities we don't understand, but they still exist. Is it natural that a child be born with both a penis and a vagina? You would think not, but it occurs in nature. If it occurs in nature, then is it not natural?

I would be curious about people's views on hermaphrodites, especially those who view homosexuality as a sin. I don't believe I've ever heard a religious viewpoint explaining their existence. How do you reconcile their existence with your faith? Not trying to insult, just curious.
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From a very well-known and respected Pastor out of Texas.

"By definition a hermaphrodite is "a person born with both male and female sex organs." Within this definition there are three labels; true, female pseudo, and male pseudo. The first category is extremely rare with only 350-450 known cases. The second type, and the most common, is female pseudo resulting in 1 of every 14,000 births. The main cause for this is a condition known as Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. In these cases there is an overproduction of testosterone causing some "masculinized" features in the female. This does not mean that there is any real gender confusion. There is not. As with any female, her chromosome is XX. Any slight mutation, that may accompany is treated early by corrective surgery. The same situation may occur in baby boys with the same treatment. (There is a movement to stop this surgery, which is being called genital mutilation by some of those who have had it, and allow children's bodies to grow and develop naturally, even if they are different.) It seems that even with ambiguous genitalia, these kids "know" if they are intrinsically male or female. In either situation, the sexual identity, given by God, may perhaps reveal traits normally associated with the opposite sex. For example, the baby girl may grow up to be naturally more athletic or aggressive than the average woman, but she is very much a woman. Similarly, the baby boy may have a naturally heightened sensitivity and/or affinity towards the arts. Nevertheless, he is still very much a man. What is God's take in all of this? God views every individual as He made them. While He did not make clones, he did create males and females with certain unique sexual characteristics. He also intended for males to manifest primarily masculine characteristics, and for females to manifest primarily feminine characteristics, although both sexes reflect aspects of both the masculine and the feminine in varying degrees. Along with those traits, He has provided direction on how we are to relate to one another. There is no prohibition regarding a slightly more "masculine" female or a slightly more "feminine" man. God views them as he does anyone else, with love and delight, and He desires that they experience all the freedom all He designed them to have, within the boundaries of the sexual identity God gave to them. The fact that some individuals are born with evidence of mutations in their sex-determining genes doesn't change their value in God's eyes any more than someone born with the mutation that causes cystic fibrosis or sickle-cell anemia."
 
#510
#510
Weezer said:
Do you need to understand how bisexuality is natural? If it's natural for some to be born attracted to the opposite sex, and natural that some are born attracted to the same sex, why must it be unnatural for some to be born attracted to both sexes? There are many complexities we don't understand, but they still exist. Is it natural that a child be born with both a penis and a vagina? You would think not, but it occurs in nature. If it occurs in nature, then is it not natural?

I would be curious about people's views on hermaphrodites, especially those who view homosexuality as a sin. I don't believe I've ever heard a religious viewpoint explaining their existence. How do you reconcile their existence with your faith? Not trying to insult, just curious.
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This.
 
#511
#511
Weezer said:
Do you need to understand how bisexuality is natural? If it's natural for some to be born attracted to the opposite sex, and natural that some are born attracted to the same sex, why must it be unnatural for some to be born attracted to both sexes? There are many complexities we don't understand, but they still exist. Is it natural that a child be born with both a penis and a vagina? You would think not, but it occurs in nature. If it occurs in nature, then is it not natural?

I would be curious about people's views on hermaphrodites, especially those who view homosexuality as a sin. I don't believe I've ever heard a religious viewpoint explaining their existence. How do you reconcile their existence with your faith? Not trying to insult, just curious.
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I am religious but fail to see why I would need to reconcile their existence anymore than I would need to reconcile any other birth defect with my faith.
 
#512
#512
chatt-townVOL said:
From a very well-known and respected Pastor out of Texas.
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Is there a reason that this "Pastor out of Texas" does not address XYs that have a vagina instead of a penis and testicles?

Such a person is genetically a man, anatomically a female. If such a person is attracted to a male, they are homosexual (according to genetics); if they are attracted to a female, they are homosexual (according to anatomy). Of course, society can artificially choose to pump these individuals full of estrogen so that they develop more as females than as males, but that is certainly meddling with god's creation, is it not (and meddling simply to mold somebody into society)?
 
#513
#513
Okay, so you(and I don't mean you specifically but those who agree with the statement) can accept God creates beings born with both genitalia, but not people who are naturally attracted to the same sex or both sexes? Gene mapping is still going on. Should evidence support that homosexuality is gene-based, then does it become acceptable? I guess my question is where are the boundaries?

Also, why do those of faith believe in science when it supports their arguement but refute it when it is contradictory? This is not a personal attack, intentional disrespectful question. I consider myself a man of faith albeit my faith seems to differ from many. I just want to try and understand the logic behind the viewpoint.
 
#514
#514
Weezer said:
Also, why do those of faith believe in science when it supports their arguement but refute it when it is contradictory? This is not a personal attack, intentional disrespectful question. I consider myself a man of faith albeit my faith seems to differ from many. I just want to try and understand the logic behind the viewpoint.
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No I am with you here. Intelligent Christians are not against science. I think science is great. It has taught us more than we ever could have known and fully deserves our respect. I just don't see "theories" as something that is threatening to what I know to be fact.
 
#515
#515
Weezer said:
Okay, so you(and I don't mean you specifically but those who agree with the statement) can accept God creates beings born with both genitalia, but not people who are naturally attracted to the same sex or both sexes? Gene mapping is still going on. Should evidence support that homosexuality is gene-based, then does it become acceptable? I guess my question is where are the boundaries?

Also, why do those of faith believe in science when it supports their arguement but refute it when it is contradictory? This is not a personal attack, intentional disrespectful question. I consider myself a man of faith albeit my faith seems to differ from many. I just want to try and understand the logic behind the viewpoint.
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Acceptable? I certainly accept them but not necessarily their behavior. No different than kids born with ADHD, Autism, etc. Society should certainly accept them and in most modern cultures do, but at the same time works on ways to develop and manage their behavior while at the same time scientists work to understand the conditions. I could certainly be wrong(won't know in my lifetime), but I fail to see why society is so quick to presume this condition is worth promoting and so decisively determined to claim it is not a defect.
 
#516
#516
allvol123 said:
Acceptable? I certainly accept them but not necessarily their behavior. No different than kids born with ADHD, Autism, etc. Society should certainly accept them and in most modern cultures do, but at the same time works on ways to develop and manage their behavior while at the same time scientists work to understand the conditions. I could certainly be wrong(won't know in my lifetime), but I fail to see why society is so quick to presume this condition is worth promoting and so decisively determined to claim it is not a defect.
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As the Jesus freak of the politics forum I must say the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" thing is absolute bullsh!t. Since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God we should love the sinner and let the sin part be handled by God.

Here's another thought, don't worry about the splinter in your brothers eye while you have a plank in your own eye.
 
#517
#517
orangeslice13 said:
As the Jesus freak of the politics forum I must say the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" thing is absolute bullsh!t. Since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God we should love the sinner and let the sin part be handled by God.

Here's another thought, don't worry about the splinter in your brothers eye while you have a plank in your own eye.
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Have no idea why you quoted me, I don't claim to be any better of a person than anyone else. That said, I don't promote my poor behaviors or ask anyone else to condone them.
 
#519
#519
allvol123 said:
I am religious but fail to see why I would need to reconcile their existence anymore than I would need to reconcile any other birth defect with my faith.
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Okay, so you are religious. God is infallible, yes? Isn't this what Christianity teaches? If God is infallible, then birth defects would not occur without his allowing them to do so. If God allows them to occur, how are they wrong?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but wouldn't you need to reconcile their existence in order to maintain your faith? There is much we do not understand and much we will never understand, but if you are going to argue using faith as a basis, then shouldn't you reconcile the inconsistencies to support your own arguements?
 
#520
#520
allvol123 said:
Have no idea why you quoted me, I don't claim to be any better of a person than anyone else. That said, I don't promote my poor behaviors or ask anyone else to condone them.
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Who are you to decide what is poor behavior for someone other than yourself?
 
#521
#521
Weezer said:
Okay, so you are religious. God is infallible, yes? Isn't this what Christianity teaches? If God is infallible, then birth defects would not occur without his allowing them to do so. If God allows them to occur, how are they wrong?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but wouldn't you need to reconcile their existence in order to maintain your faith? There is much we do not understand and much we will never understand, but if you are going to argue using faith as a basis, then shouldn't you reconcile the inconsistencies to support your own arguements?
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The flaws in this world are too numerous to count. My faith isnt and can't be contingent on a perfect world. Obviously no one in this world's can be.
 
#523
#523
Weezer said:
Okay, so you are religious. God is infallible, yes? Isn't this what Christianity teaches? If God is infallible, then birth defects would not occur without his allowing them to do so. If God allows them to occur, how are they wrong?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but wouldn't you need to reconcile their existence in order to maintain your faith? There is much we do not understand and much we will never understand, but if you are going to argue using faith as a basis, then shouldn't you reconcile the inconsistencies to support your own arguements?
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Weezy, you should start a new thread with that question.
 
#525
#525
Weezer said:
Do you need to understand how bisexuality is natural? If it's natural for some to be born attracted to the opposite sex, and natural that some are born attracted to the same sex, why must it be unnatural for some to be born attracted to both sexes? There are many complexities we don't understand, but they still exist. Is it natural that a child be born with both a penis and a vagina? You would think not, but it occurs in nature. If it occurs in nature, then is it not natural?

I would be curious about people's views on hermaphrodites, especially those who view homosexuality as a sin. I don't believe I've ever heard a religious viewpoint explaining their existence. How do you reconcile their existence with your faith? Not trying to insult, just curious.
Click to expand...

So you are using a defect as an example?
 
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