question about homosexuality

in your opinion are the gay people born that way or do they make a choice to be gay?

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#452
#452
GAVol said:
Honestly though.... I've never really felt much of a need to care about it very much.
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Me either, but we are just having a discussion.

I think this discussion is much more than just trying to understand why someone likes or desires the other sex. I think it's trying to understand why someone feels they can't change a personal disposition that they feel strongly towards doing or feeling. I felt a natural disposition to partying and getting drunk all the time in my early 20s, and now in my early 30s, I don't feel that at all.
 
#454
#454
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Alright. Well here's a fair question, if that's who you became, based on what you saw and your experience, why can't you change who you are at some point??
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You ability to learn and shape your behavior severely decreases between about seven and fourteen years. This is why it is so difficult to learn languages (in fact, it is arguably impossible to actually 'learn', as opposed to memorize) as an adult. The brain function for internalizing grammar structure and rules shuts off (for the most part).

The same happens with behavioral traits. You can certainly change alter your outward behavior (just as you can translate other languages) but you will be constantly fighting against urges, like sexual attraction.
 
#455
#455
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Me either, but we are just having a discussion.

I think this discussion is much more than just trying to understand why someone likes or desires the other sex. I think it's trying to understand why someone feels they can't change a personal disposition that they feel strongly towards doing or feeling. I felt a natural disposition to partying and getting drunk all the time in my early 20s, and now in my early 30s, I don't feel that at all.
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once you drop the insane comparisons to being lazy or partying maybe you can begin to understand
 
#456
#456
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The choices we make, and others make around us, shape who we are and who we become. Would you disagree??
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I completely disagree; little children do not make choices and the majority of what occurs in their environment occurs independently of conscious decisions (choices).
 
#457
#457
therealUT said:
I completely disagree; little children do not make choices and the majority of what occurs in their environment occurs independently of conscious decisions (choices).
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They do make choices. They make choices to either mind you or buck what you are saying. They make choices to listen to you or ignore you too, especially if they see that it doesn't benefit them and what they are doing.
 
#461
#461
Just a question:

If a person is born XY (not XXY, but simply XY) but did not develop male genitals and, therefore, superficially looks like a woman, what gender do you think such a person should be attracted to?

Genetically, this person is male; yet, anatomically this person has a vagina, a uterus, ovaries (that will never produce ova), no breasts (they will not develop), and a masculine brain.
 
#463
#463
#464
#464
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, they are suggesting that mothers and their sisters who have more kids than other families, are more likely to give birth to a gay man and maybe the reason the "gay man" gene still exists?? Did I read that right??
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There are studies that assert that for every older brother one has they are 1/3 more likely to be born homosexual. The reason for this is rooted in the protein given off by the Y chromosome during development and the response of the carriers antigens.
 
#465
#465
GAVol said:
I don't think it's a choice. I also don't think it's an innate behavior that you're born with. I think it's just the way someone turns out due to external factors much the way a lot of other personal attributes both positive and negative are developed.
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I could buy this if there wasn't the strong statistical correlation of homosexual identical twins who were split at birth. They were raised in two totally different environments or as you say "external factors". The only thing that is the same is their genetic code. If you juxtapose that against other identical homosexual twins in analogous situations, you find that they statistically share certain genes which strongly supports the idea that homosexuality is genetically based.

I do think external factors play a large role in their overall behavior.
 
#466
#466
therealUT said:
There are studies that assert that for every older brother one has they are 1/3 more likely to be born homosexual. The reason for this is rooted in the protein given off by the Y chromosome during development and the response of the carriers antigens.
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So, they are saying that because there is more people, that someone above them has a higher possibility of becoming homosexual?? Well, that seems like common sense, not a breaking new study really. Seems like an attempt to try and attach a number to something.

You know though, after all this conversation, if someone is happy the way they are, that's fine by me. I may or may not agree with it, or how it came to be, but as long as they are happy with their decision, then who really cares about the reason.

I think it's a choice, but my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot to someone else's happiness honestly, in the grand scheme of things.
 
#467
#467
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, they are suggesting that mothers and their sisters who have more kids than other families, are more likely to give birth to a gay man and maybe the reason the "gay man" gene still exists?? Did I read that right??
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I think the theory is that the same genetic factors cause both homosexuality in men and high reproductive success in their mothers and their aunts. Basically, homosexuality in men is perpetuated by these genetic markers passed down through women. I think the interesting part to me is that they theorize these genetic markers which cause men to be attracted to men, also make their mothers/aunts more attractive to men. Fascinating stuff, and completely new (at least to me).
 
#468
#468
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The choices we make, and others make around us, shape who we are and who we become. Would you disagree??
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Ummm...Not that simple. Genetics and life experiences play an arguably bigger role.

therealUT said:
Just a question:

If a person is born XY (not XXY, but simply XY) but did not develop male genitals and, therefore, superficially looks like a woman, what gender do you think such a person should be attracted to?

Genetically, this person is male; yet, anatomically this person has a vagina, a uterus, ovaries (that will never produce ova), no breasts (they will not develop), and a masculine brain.
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This happens all the time. The SRY gene on the Y chromosome is what makes a man a man. A Y chromosome without the SRY gene no different phenotypically speaking than an X chromosome.

Then again, to some on this board genetics don't affect behavior.
 
#469
#469
gcbvol said:
I think the theory is that the same genetic factors cause both homosexuality in men and high reproductive success in their mothers and their aunts. Basically, homosexuality in men is perpetuated by these genetic markers passed down through women. I think the interesting part to me is that they theorize these genetic markers which cause men to be attracted to men, also make their mothers/aunts more attractive to men. Fascinating stuff, and completely new (at least to me).
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I guess after all this conversation, do you really need anymore justification of why you are gay, or are you just good with being gay?? Seems like if your happy with it, the reasons behind shouldn't really matter to you, right??
 
#470
#470
gcbvol said:
I just saw this article and thought I'd share as we have discussed various research and studies on the topic. This one is certainly new to me.

Male Homosexuality Study: Gay Men Have Evolutionary Benefit For Their Families, New Research Suggests
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gcbvol said:
I think the theory is that the same genetic factors cause both homosexuality in men and high reproductive success in their mothers and their aunts. Basically, homosexuality in men is perpetuated by these genetic markers passed down through women. I think the interesting part to me is that they theorize these genetic markers which cause men to be attracted to men, also make their mothers/aunts more attractive to men. Fascinating stuff, and completely new (at least to me).
Click to expand...

Further evidence that one of the prominent genes responsible for homosexuality is located on the X chromosome.
 
#471
#471
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I guess after all this conversation, do you really need anymore justification of why you are gay, or are you just good with being gay?? Seems like if your happy with it, the reasons behind shouldn't really matter to you, right??
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Oh, I am very comfortable with who I am at this point; the fighting is behind me. However, I am very interested as to the 'why'. No, it will not change anything ultimately, but I want to know.
 
#472
#472
gcbvol said:
Oh, I am very comfortable with who I am at this point; the fighting is behind me. However, I am very interested as to the 'why'. No, it will not change anything ultimately, but I want to know.
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I wish you luck on that journey, if it truly is important to you to find out. :hi:
 
#473
#473
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, they are saying that because there is more people, that someone above them has a higher possibility of becoming homosexual?? Well, that seems like common sense, not a breaking new study really. Seems like an attempt to try and attach a number to something.
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That is not how probability works.
 
#474
#474
this is my favorite example of how religion distorts common sense.

scenario: you're 12. your English teacher bends down and you observe cleavage. You pop a boner.

Did you choose the blood flow?
 
#475
#475
bigorange16 said:
this is my favorite example of how religion distorts common sense.

scenario: you're 12. your English teacher bends down and you observe cleavage. You pop a boner.

Did you choose the blood flow?
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Do you think religious people are the only ones that believe homosexuality is wrong?
 
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