question about homosexuality

[joeydupree]

What about them?

My bad. Thought you made the comment I was referring to but it wasn't you.

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

Not unless you have the power to make something so simply by assertion.

You don't like people kicking your argument's a$$ do you?

We were not even discussing how you would "label" a homosexual. We were discussing whether a person is actually a homosexual if they've never committed the act. I provided a solid analogy. You diverted the conversation/argument into how you would determine how to label someone.

Stick to the topic at hand. Your twisting arguments to fit your own ridiculous drivel doesn't work.

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

If you are sexually attracted to children, you are a pedophile. If you act on that attraction, you are most likely a criminal.

Again - you didn't answer, only diverting. I didn't ask "What is a Pedophile?"
I asked, Were they born that way?

And if you act on that attraction, there is no "most likely" to it. You are a criminal.

 

[gcbvol]

TRUT, how about just an honest question....

Do you think it's a choice or predisposed??

Not TRUT, but will respond to this again with my point of view. Being gay, I feel I can offer an apparent unique perspective in this thread. I can tell you that I am absolutely certain that this is the way I was born - I have never been attracted to the opposite sex (never even dreamed about it, that I can recall). I fought it for the majority of my life, prayed over it, counseled with others about it - but nothing changed. It is simply who I am and always have been. My brother is also gay and has the same perspective - absolutely not a choice. As others have stated, I certainly agree that it is a choice to actually enter into a homosexual relationship but that is the only choice involved.

Honestly, I think this whole question of choice or not is what leads to much of the bigotry and hate toward gay folks today - many people tend to fear or hate what they do not understand. No one has to believe me on this, but I am providing an honest response based on my life experience - and the experience of countless other gays folks with whom I have discussed this topic.

Finally, (and this is not directed at any specific person) when it comes to this question, if you are not gay how could you possibly know?

 

[therealUT]

You don't like people kicking your argument's a$$ do you?

We were not even discussing how you would "label" a homosexual. We were discussing whether a person is actually a homosexual if they've never committed the act. I provided a solid analogy. You diverted the conversation/argument into how you would determine how to label someone.

Stick to the topic at hand. Your twisting arguments to fit your own ridiculous drivel doesn't work.

Someone is a homosexual if they are sexually attracted to members of their same sex; that is what homosexuality is. Someone is a safe driver only if they have driven safely; that is what being safe driver is. Certainly one can be genetically predisposed to being a safe driver (cautious, good eyesight, etc.); however, the term "safe driver" only refers to one who has driven safely.

homosexual, adj. and n.
Pronunciation: /həʊməʊ-/ /hɒməʊˈsɛksjuːəl/
Etymology: Irreg. < homo- comb. form + sexual adj. and n.
A. adj.
Involving, related to, or characterized by a sexual propensity for one's own sex; of or involving sexual activity with a member of one's own sex, or between individuals of the same sex.

B. n.
A person who has a sexual propensity for his or her own sex; esp. one whose sexual desires are directed wholly or largely towards people of the same sex.

propensity, n.
Pronunciation: Brit. /pr&#601;(&#650&#712;p&#603;ns&#7547;ti/ , U.S. /pr&#601;&#712;p&#603;ns&#601;di/ , /pro&#650;&#712;p&#603;ns&#601;di/
Forms: 15 propensitye, 15–16 propensitie, 16 propencity, 16– propensity.
Etymology: < classical Latin pr&#333;p&#275;ns-, past participial stem of pr&#333;pend&#275;re propend v. + -ity suffix. Compare post-classical Latin propensitas (a1536 in Erasmus), Italian propensità favour (a1536), physical characteristic of a body which determines its physical behaviour (a1601; sense 1b is apparently not paralleled in Italian until later (19th cent.)). Cf earlier propension n.
Freq. with to or towards.
1.
a. Favourable inclination or disposition towards a person, party, etc.;

b. A predisposition or inclination to, towards, or for a particular action, habit, quality, etc.; a tendency to do something.

OED

Imagine that; the adjective (how something is labeled, not what something is) refers to actions; the noun does not. One is a homosexual when they have a desire to engage in same sex sexual relations. An act is a homosexual act when it involves sexual acts between members of the same sex.

 

[joeydupree]

Finally, (and this is not directed at any specific person) when it comes to this question, if you are not gay how could you possibly know?

Boom

 

[therealUT]

Again - you didn't answer, only diverting. I didn't ask "What is a Pedophile?"
I asked, Were they born that way?

I would not rule out the possibility that they are born that way; would you? I would rule out the possibility that it is a conscious choice to be sexually attracted to children (as sexual attraction is not a conscious choice).

And if you act on that attraction, there is no "most likely" to it. You are a criminal.

Most likely.

 

[Gramps]

How does hormones have anything to do with it? If you take prohoromones for a long time for lifting weights they can't turn you into a homosexual, can they?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

you worried Billy?

you might should lay off the prohoromones.

Do you think taking prohoromones is worth risking the chance of being turned into a homosexual ?

are you finding other men lifting weights attractive?

Are you willing to be turned into a homosexual by taking prohoromones?

You are going to have to decide how much you love women. Is is worth the risk of losing your attraction to women in order to get buff?

Only you can answer Billy.

Have you noticed yourself being attracted to another man working out?

If you have to think about the answers to these questions it may be too late for you Billy.

 

[joeydupree]

It's too late for Billy, indeed.

 

[Billy Costigan]

you worried Billy?

you might should lay off the prohoromones.

Do you think taking prohoromones is worth risking the chance of being turned into a homosexual ?

are you finding other men lifting weights attractive?

Are you willing to be turned into a homosexual by taking prohoromones?

You are going to have to decide how much you love women. Is is worth the risk of losing your attraction to women in order to get buff?

Only you can answer Billy.

Have you noticed yourself being attracted to another man working out?

If you have to think about the answers to these questions it may be too late for you Billy.

I do cycle the prohormone 1-Androstene-3b-ol-17-one and if it was going to turn me into a homosexual no I don't think it would be worth it. I started a thread earlier on a bodybuilding forum after I read this about the hormones causing gayness and there were guys on there that said they have done them for years and It hasn't turned them into homosexuals. They think it's not possible unless there was some sort of rare counteraction that they are not familiar with. And no I'm not finding the other weight lifters attractive.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Not TRUT, but will respond to this again with my point of view. Being gay, I feel I can offer an apparent unique perspective in this thread. I can tell you that I am absolutely certain that this is the way I was born - I have never been attracted to the opposite sex (never even dreamed about it, that I can recall). I fought it for the majority of my life, prayed over it, counseled with others about it - but nothing changed. It is simply who I am and always have been. My brother is also gay and has the same perspective - absolutely not a choice. As others have stated, I certainly agree that it is a choice to actually enter into a homosexual relationship but that is the only choice involved.

Honestly, I think this whole question of choice or not is what leads to much of the bigotry and hate toward gay folks today - many people tend to fear or hate what they do not understand. No one has to believe me on this, but I am providing an honest response based on my life experience - and the experience of countless other gays folks with whom I have discussed this topic.

Finally, (and this is not directed at any specific person) when it comes to this question, if you are not gay how could you possibly know?

Appreciate the honesty.

Let me ask you a few questions, since you are offering your side of the discussion. Does it upset you when people just go back and forth between being straight or gay, just for acceptance purposes in their life??

Also, I'm sure that you have had the discussion of toleration with people in your lifestyle. Why is it that people want to just be tolerated, instead of just living how they see fit?? It seems like if people just wanted to live, they wouldn't care about society, and I'm sure that the people who just want to go on about their everyday business and be gay, are probably annoyed by all those who keep it constantly in the media circus in this country.

Let me go on the record about how I feel about it though....

I don't agree with homosexuality and never will, but that doesn't make someone less of a person or make it impossible for me to like them. I've met some pretty normal, or what would perceived to be rather normal, gay people in my life and have enjoyed speaking with them as a person and co-worker. What I can't stand about certain parts of the gay community, is those who are driving an agenda to MAKE people accept the lifestyle and those who promote it. I don't have to accept anything about anyone or any agenda in this country, and that's my right. So why is it imperative that certain groups feel it necessary to keep bringing it up and making Americans accept it??

 

[OJ]

Tiger just made one hell of a shot

 

[Billy Costigan]

Appreciate the honesty.

Let me ask you a few questions, since you are offering your side of the discussion. Does it upset you when people just go back and forth between being straight or gay, just for acceptance purposes in their life??

Also, I'm sure that you have had the discussion of toleration with people in your lifestyle. Why is it that people want to just be tolerated, instead of just living how they see fit?? It seems like if people just wanted to live, they wouldn't care about society, and I'm sure that the people who just want to go on about their everyday business and be gay, are probably annoyed by all those who keep it constantly in the media circus in this country.

Let me go on the record about how I feel about it though....

I don't agree with homosexuality and never will, but that doesn't make someone less of a person or make it impossible for me to like them. I've met some pretty normal, or what would perceived to be rather normal, gay people in my life and have enjoyed speaking with them as a person and co-worker. What I can't stand about certain parts of the gay community, is those who are driving an agenda to MAKE people accept the lifestyle and those who promote it. I don't have to accept anything about anyone or any agenda in this country, and that's my right. So why is it imperative that certain groups feel it necessary to keep bringing it up and making Americans accept it??

Alright, so I guess you chose that it was a choice, which is fine. Because if you didn't, wouldn't that be like saying you didn't "agree" with mental retardation or autism? You know, stuff you're born with that people can't help.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Alright, so I guess you chose that it was a choice, which is fine. Because if you didn't, wouldn't that be like saying you didn't "agree" with mental retardation or autism? You know, stuff you're born with that people can't help.

I believe it is a choice, and that's just my opinion.

Let's say for a second that it isn't for some, which could or couldn't be the case, what percentage of gays does that make up??

 

[therealUT]

For those who obviously do not know the definition of "tolerate":

tolerate, v.
Pronunciation: /&#712;t&#594;l&#601;re&#618;t/
Forms: Also 15–17 toll-.
Etymology: < French tolérer (15th cent. in Godefroy Compl.), < Latin toler&#257;re to bear, endure: see -ate suffix

2.
a. To allow to exist or to be done or practised without authoritative interference or molestation; also gen. to allow, permit.

OED

This is the "tolerance" the homosexual community is striving for: they do not wish to be bullied, arrested, and/or killed simply because they are homosexual.

Anyone who tries to argue that they do not want to be "tolerated" (i.e., allowed to exist without molestation) is, quite simply, lying (since the term "molestation" reduces to being interfered with against your will).

 

[joeydupree]

I would bet that most who don't think it is a choice aren't religious.

Is that a lame statement? Has that already been beaten to death?

 

[therealUT]

I would bet that most who don't think it is a choice aren't religious.

Is that a lame statement? Has that already been beaten to death?

Not a lame statement; in fact, it would appear logically valid (not logically sound) for one to believe the following:

1. God created everything
2. God declared that homosexuality is an abomination
3. God did not create homosexuality

To believe that God is perfect, God created everyone, God declared that homosexuality is an abomination, and that God created homosexuality is logically absurd (it would make at least one of the first three assertions false). Therefore, for a religious person to hold onto the thought that homosexuality is a sin/abomination, they must cling to the idea that homosexuals could not be born as homosexuals.

 

[ToineMac]

Not a lame statement; in fact, it would appear logically valid (not logically sound) for one to believe the following:

1. God created everything
2. God declared that homosexuality is an abomination
3. God did not create homosexuality

To believe that God is perfect, God created everyone, God declared that homosexuality is an abomination, and that God created homosexuality is logically absurd (it would make at least one of the first three assertions false). Therefore, for a religious person to hold onto the thought that homosexuality is a sin/abomination, they must cling to the idea that homosexuals could not be born as homosexuals.

But the fact remains sin exists. I think people are born homosexuals. Just like people are born with lying and fornication. People can choose to participate in homosexuality or fornication. The attraction is inborn. The act is a choice.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[joeydupree]

Babies are pure.

 

[therealUT]

But the fact remains sin exists. I think people are born homosexuals. Just like people are born with lying and fornication. People can choose to participate in homosexuality or fornication. The attraction is inborn. The act is a choice.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Kind of an ******* thing of God to create individuals that are attracted to members of their same sex and then tell them to just deal with it. Also, why would God give a **** about actions that do not harm anyone else?

 

[joeydupree]

Always heard giving us a penis was His cruelest joke on mankind.

 

[ToineMac]

Kind of an ******* thing of God to create individuals that are attracted to members of their same sex and then tell them to just deal with it. Also, why would God give a **** about actions that do not harm anyone else?

If you believe the bible then we owe the introduction of sin to Adam. I recognize that's not really an answer to your question. Thread asked for an opinion. Gave mine. I should also say that I have no beef with gays.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[terrypedigo]

Yes. I would say the majority are born gay, though. Can't prove it or anything, but it makes the most sense.

I agree:yes:

 

[joeydupree]

Of y'all that believe you're born gay who has young children?

 

[gcbvol]

Appreciate the honesty.

Let me ask you a few questions, since you are offering your side of the discussion. Does it upset you when people just go back and forth between being straight or gay, just for acceptance purposes in their life??

Also, I'm sure that you have had the discussion of toleration with people in your lifestyle. Why is it that people want to just be tolerated, instead of just living how they see fit?? It seems like if people just wanted to live, they wouldn't care about society, and I'm sure that the people who just want to go on about their everyday business and be gay, are probably annoyed by all those who keep it constantly in the media circus in this country.

Let me go on the record about how I feel about it though....

I don't agree with homosexuality and never will, but that doesn't make someone less of a person or make it impossible for me to like them. I've met some pretty normal, or what would perceived to be rather normal, gay people in my life and have enjoyed speaking with them as a person and co-worker. What I can't stand about certain parts of the gay community, is those who are driving an agenda to MAKE people accept the lifestyle and those who promote it. I don't have to accept anything about anyone or any agenda in this country, and that's my right. So why is it imperative that certain groups feel it necessary to keep bringing it up and making Americans accept it??

Sure, I am happy to provide my thoughts here. First, in terms of people going back and forth I can honestly say that I have never met anyone personally who has done that. However, I wouldn't say it upsets me. I don't understand it since I have always been attracted to one sex, but I suppose this would be bisexuals we're talking about. As mentioned before I do not personally know any bisexuals and cannot relate directly, but just because I can't does not mean some folks are not born inherently attracted to both sexes. I will say that I think people who say they 'choose' to be gay is a very, very small percentage of the homosexual population. The only troubling part with these folks is that some will latch on to what they claim and take that as 'proof' that being gay is a choice.

The next topic is much more complex. I really do not see this as a situation where the gay community is trying to force acceptance just for the heck of it. Many homosexuals see this as a civil rights issue, and the facts are that homosexuals do not have access to the same federal and state rights/benefits as our heterosexual counterparts - it's a very big deal. Add to that the continuing bigotry and hate that many homosexuals are dealing with today, and hopefully you can see the need to fight for equality - and also understanding by those who are not gay. Also, is tolerance really such a bad thing when people are not hurting anyone?

You are absolutely correct in that you do not have to personally agree with or 'accept' homosexuality - that is absolutely your right and I accept and respect it. Personally, I know that many will never agree with homosexuality based on their Christian beliefs and I never actively try to make people accept it. However I do try to educate people based on my own life experience - I wish everyone could understand what it is like to be gay, so there would be more acceptance in the world. Let me just end by saying that those who actively promote hate and intolerance, and remain close minded on things which they do not understand, should hope they do not find themselves as a minority struggling for equality.