question about homosexuality

in your opinion are the gay people born that way or do they make a choice to be gay?

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#102
#102
If you can choose to be gay for 5 minutes, then I'll agree that it's not something from birth.
When I say to choose to be gay, I don't mean to go have sex with a person of the same sex, I mean to literally choose to no longer be attracted to the opposite, but instead, be attracted to the same.
I think that it's literally an impossibility, therefore the only other option is that it's something unchangeable, and therefore undecidable.
 
#104
#104
joeydupree said:
Were any of them born gay?
Click to expand...

See, I think that question is a VERY fair one in the discussion. Can they do tests in the womb to determine homosexuality?? What about when the baby comes out, what can they determine then?? If someone is TRULY born gay, shouldn't that be something that is determined before birth in the first place??
 
#106
#106
gcbvol said:
Sure, I am happy to provide my thoughts here. First, in terms of people going back and forth I can honestly say that I have never met anyone personally who has done that. However, I wouldn't say it upsets me. I don't understand it since I have always been attracted to one sex, but I suppose this would be bisexuals we're talking about. As mentioned before I do not personally know any bisexuals and cannot relate directly, but just because I can't does not mean some folks are not born inherently attracted to both sexes. I will say that I think people who say they 'choose' to be gay is a very, very small percentage of the homosexual population. The only troubling part with these folks is that some will latch on to what they claim and take that as 'proof' that being gay is a choice.

The next topic is much more complex. I really do not see this as a situation where the gay community is trying to force acceptance just for the heck of it. Many homosexuals see this as a civil rights issue, and the facts are that homosexuals do not have access to the same federal and state rights/benefits as our heterosexual counterparts - it's a very big deal. Add to that the continuing bigotry and hate that many homosexuals are dealing with today, and hopefully you can see the need to fight for equality - and also understanding by those who are not gay. Also, is tolerance really such a bad thing when people are not hurting anyone?

You are absolutely correct in that you do not have to personally agree with or 'accept' homosexuality - that is absolutely your right and I accept and respect it. Personally, I know that many will never agree with homosexuality based on their Christian beliefs and I never actively try to make people accept it. However I do try to educate people based on my own life experience - I wish everyone could understand what it is like to be gay, so there would be more acceptance in the world. Let me just end by saying that those who actively promote hate and intolerance, and remain close minded on things which they do not understand, should hope they do not find themselves as a minority struggling for equality.
Click to expand...

Why is having the same "benefits" as heterosexuals a big deal, especially when you can still have health insurance on your own, and file taxes the same as they do?? That's something I don't understand. Married people's tax breaks aren't near as good anymore, especially when they don't have kids. You can buy a home together, you can buy a car together, you can pretty much do everything that a married couple can do, you can even legally change your last name if you choose to without getting married. So, why is the whole "benefits" things a big deal, when there are many alternatives to what married couples have??

Again, just questions, I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else here. I hope I don't come off as such either.

:hi:
 
#108
#108
A white friend of my aunt was married for 16 years and had 2 girls. A couple years after she got divorced, she wound up in a relationship with a black woman. So far it has lasted nearly 10 years. Go figure.
 
#109
#109
joeydupree said:
Were any of them born gay?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. How can I know until they start to show attraction to someone. Although my not breast fed 3 year old is really shown a liking for boobies and white women. I'm sure he's straight.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#110
#110
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why is having the same "benefits" as heterosexuals a big deal, especially when you can still have health insurance on your own, and file taxes the same as they do?? That's something I don't understand. Married people's tax breaks aren't near as good anymore, especially when they don't have kids. You can buy a home together, you can buy a car together, you can pretty much do everything that a married couple can do, you can even legally change your last name if you choose to without getting married. So, why is the whole "benefits" things a big deal, when there are many alternatives to what married couples have??

Again, just questions, I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else here. I hope I don't come off as such either.

:hi:
Click to expand...

I've had those same questions. Recently talked with a gay girl who questioned why people make such a big deal out of it.
They end up in worse shape than before in the name of "marriage".

Where did marriage come from?
 
#111
#111
g8terh8ter_eric said:
joeydupree said:
Why raise my boys to be straight if it is predetermined?
Click to expand...

Good point.
Click to expand...

I don't find this to be a "good point". You raise your children the way you want to raise your children. Saying that you raise them "straight", in my opinion, is pointless. Saying that you raise them to play sports and like cars doesn't mean that they're being raised "straight", it just means you're raising them to understand athletic competition. Whether they grow up to be attracted to men or women, at that stage, is yet to be seen.
 
#112
#112
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why is having the same "benefits" as heterosexuals a big deal, especially when you can still have health insurance on your own, and file taxes the same as they do?? That's something I don't understand. Married people's tax breaks aren't near as good anymore, especially when they don't have kids.
Click to expand...

Why do you consistently insist on perpetuating this lie? You are just wrong.


Tax Bracket Married Filing Jointly Single
10% Bracket $0 – $17,400 $0 – $8,700
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700 $8,700 – $35,350
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700 $35,350 – $85,650
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450 $85,650 – $178,650
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350 $178,650 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350 Over $388,350
Click to expand...
 
#113
#113
joeydupree said:
I've had those same questions. Recently talked with a gay girl who questioned why people make such a big deal out of it.
They end up in worse shape than before in the name of "marriage".

Where did marriage come from?
Click to expand...

I believe marriage to be the biblical marriage in Genesis. I also believe that there aren't a lot of people who hold marriage as "holy" matrimony anymore, and just care about the "benefits" of it. With the American divorce rated hovering around 50% right now, even Christians should be ashamed with that, especially when they have just as high as rates as others. It's not like it used to be, and it's easy to get divorced, which I had to find out the hard way already.
 
#114
#114
ToineMac said:
I don't think so. How can I know until they start to show attraction to someone. Although my not breast fed 3 year old is really shown a liking for boobies and white women. I'm sure he's straight.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

How do we as straight men raise our boys to carry our legacy and lead our families without putting tremendous pressure on them if by chance they are gay?

I guess I could accept if my son CHOSE to be gay, but how do I give him the best shot in life if what I teach him goes against his very make up?
I'd rather not cause irreparable damage by trying to teach my boys to be men. (of course, that's if I believed you could be born gay)

So what do you teach them since there's a chance they're gay?
 
#115
#115
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I believe marriage to be the biblical marriage in Genesis.
Click to expand...

We do not live in a theocracy; moreover, there were plenty of individuals in the Torah who had multiple wives and were in God's favor. So, "biblical marriage in Genesis" is open both monogamy and polygamy.

g8terh8ter_eric said:
I also believe that there aren't a lot of people who hold marriage as "holy" matrimony anymore, and just care about the "benefits" of it.
Click to expand...

Right, because individuals throughout history have not married simply to have children and the benefits of their children's labor.

g8terh8ter_eric said:
With the American divorce rated hovering around 50% right now, even Christians should be ashamed with that, especially when they have just as high as rates as others. It's not like it used to be, and it's easy to get divorced, which I had to find out the hard way already.
Click to expand...

It is easier to get a divorce these days; is that a bad thing? If someone makes a mistake when they are 23, should they pay for that mistake for the rest of their life? If they make a mistake when they are 50, should they pay for that mistake for another 25-35 years? If someone is being abused, should they have to endure the abuse?

Marriage use to be a life sentence and it was not always a good life sentence. Individuals ought to have the liberty to live their lives how they want to live their lives.
 
#117
#117
crusse10 said:
I don't find this to be a "good point". You raise your children the way you want to raise your children. Saying that you raise them "straight", in my opinion, is pointless. Saying that you raise them to play sports and like cars doesn't mean that they're being raised "straight", it just means you're raising them to understand athletic competition. Whether they grow up to be attracted to men or women, at that stage, is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

Do you have kids?
 
#119
#119
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why is having the same "benefits" as heterosexuals a big deal, especially when you can still have health insurance on your own, and file taxes the same as they do?? That's something I don't understand. Married people's tax breaks aren't near as good anymore, especially when they don't have kids. You can buy a home together, you can buy a car together, you can pretty much do everything that a married couple can do, you can even legally change your last name if you choose to without getting married. So, why is the whole "benefits" things a big deal, when there are many alternatives to what married couples have??

Again, just questions, I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else here. I hope I don't come off as such either.

:hi:
Click to expand...

I don't see these as attacks at all. I simply want access to the same federal/state benefits/privileges afforded to straight couples. In terms of marriage, (which you have not mentioned here, but I know others have great issue with) civil unions would be fine with me, but the government would need to move to civil union based structure and get out of the marriage business. I will also add there is more at stake than the financial aspects (which can be significant when factoring in estate handling after a partner passes, etc.) - there is also the matter of visitation and decision making when a partner is ill. I know folks who have been locked out in situations of serious illness - even with POAs. These are the most important of the benefits to me. Sure, we can work to try and cover the discrepancies through Wills and POAs but that will not resolve everything. I want to be careful not to come across as someone trying to save a few dollars here, but there are things very important to me. How would you feel if your spouse of several years became seriously ill and you were locked out of visitation and decision making status? I know folks who have experienced this and I never want to even be in a position where that could happen. Also, in the instance that your spouse passes away the estate taxation variance is significant. What if you were in a position in which the added taxation on your spouse's estate had a direct impact on your means of living? Your partner's 401K would also have to be liquidated at a much higher tax rate or remain in the plan with minimum distribution. A surviving spouse can rollover the deceased's 401K into their own account tax free. This may seem petty, but can make a big difference in the lives of many.
 
#120
#120
therealUT said:
Why do you consistently insist on perpetuating this lie? You are just wrong.
Click to expand...

Considering I saw reduced tax breaks after making more money with my ex during our marriage, I know from experience that unless you are poor, the benefits of marriage and children aren't near what people make them out to be.
 
#121
#121
joeydupree said:
Lots of men are homosexual.

What will you teach your kids?
Click to expand...

How to read.
How to throw a baseball.
How to play basketball.
How to play a musical instrument.
How to dance.
How to write.
How to recite poetry.
How to write poetry.
How to compute basic arithmetic problems.
How to understand geometry.
How to cook.
How to clean a room.
How to clean a kitchen.
 
#122
#122
gcbvol said:
I don't see these as attacks at all. I simply want access to the same federal/state benefits/privileges afforded to straight couples. In terms of marriage, (which you have not mentioned here, but I know others have great issue with) civil unions would be fine with me, but the government would need to move to civil union based structure and get out of the marriage business. I will also add there is more at stake than the financial aspects (which can be significant when factoring in estate handling after a partner passes, etc.) - there is also the matter of visitation and decision making when a partner is ill. I know folks who have been locked out in situations of serious illness - even with POAs. These are the most important of the benefits to me. Sure, we can work to try and cover the discrepancies through Wills and POAs but that will not resolve everything. I want to be careful not to come across as someone trying to save a few dollars here, but there are things very important to me. How would you feel if your spouse of several years became seriously ill and you were locked out of visitation and decision making status? I know folks who have experienced this and I never want to even be in a position where that could happen. Also, in the instance that your spouse passes away the estate taxation variance is significant. What if you were in a position in which the added taxation on your spouse's estate had a direct impact on your means of living? Your partner's 401K would also have to be liquidated at a much higher tax rate or remain in the plan with minimum distribution. A surviving spouse can rollover the deceased's 401K into their own account tax free. This may seem petty, but can make a big difference in the lives of many.
Click to expand...


This is one reason I am not against gay marriage or civil unions or whatever they end up calling it.
 
#123
#123
crusse10 said:
I don't find this to be a "good point". You raise your children the way you want to raise your children. Saying that you raise them "straight", in my opinion, is pointless. Saying that you raise them to play sports and like cars doesn't mean that they're being raised "straight", it just means you're raising them to understand athletic competition. Whether they grow up to be attracted to men or women, at that stage, is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and FWIW I was raised 'straight' I suppose. It's not like my parents actively raised me to like the same sex, or raised me like I was a girl. Goodness, it really is not that difficult if you take time to think through it. Parents are going to cause a hell of a lot more trouble if they attempt to raise children 'not to be gay'. Ever wonder why the instance of suicide attempts by gay teens is so high? We are exactly like straight people...only reversed. :)
 
#124
#124
therealUT said:
How to read.
How to throw a baseball.
How to play basketball.
How to play a musical instrument.
How to dance.
How to write.
How to recite poetry.
How to write poetry.
How to compute basic arithmetic problems.
How to understand geometry.
How to cook.
How to clean a room.
How to clean a kitchen.
Click to expand...

Do you have children?

What will you teach your 4 year old when they see a gay couple and ask questions as only kids can? (Assuming you're not laying up with a man and they're calling him uncle and are already used to seeing same sex partners.)
 
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