Question for those who follow recruiting more than I do

#26
#26
What CLK and CEO were gonna pull on NSD here was gonna be sick. We woulda had the #2 class, not a doubt in my mind. Then they pulled the #1 class at USC in 2 weeks.

jmo gbo

so when kiffin left the vols were #14 on rivals and USC #3

when the dust settled
vols ended #9 , USC #1

now lets take stone,hunter,rogers away from the vols class and add ambles and who else? ....it would take a lot more to be #2.

they struck out on 3 or 4 qbs last summer before finally landing one, struck out on every single marquee RB they chased , couldnt get the jucos to commit 100%- their biggest committed prize in the 2010 class was a kicker, their biggest stars from 2009 class are gone or on their way out.....but they are closers? not hardly..i liked the guy too, i still like him, im 36 yrs old and find his humor and attitude to be entertaining, but lets step back and look and black and white results

the truth is had they stayed we could have finished anywhere from 5-10.

go back to jan 11 posts and that was the consensus here. where you get this top 2 class i dunno. recruiting is not black and white. ill agree kiffin can recruit fine at USC but "imo" Dooley can recruit to knoxville far and away better than Kiffin could. at USC you try to get the best players and throw them on on the field vs washington or oregon state. that dont work in the SEC - you need 85 players 365 days a year. i think Dooley can get that out of young men where Kiffins games would fail

as for Orgeron ? on his own merits he failed at Ole Miss unless you consider a top 30 class and 10th in the SEC to be exceptional. MS has a lot of instate talent and great talent in border states but he couldnt get primo classes there. he got two 5 stars to ole miss and a #15 class once . those 2 5 stars ? jerrell powe (who is still learning to read) and Brent Schaeffer who was passed on by the 211 other schools. be real man

Kiffin is a used care salesman like a Mark Cuban or a Dan Synder, its sexy and sucked a lot of us in....Dooley is a tactician like a Jerry Krause or a Theo Epstein.

/rant off
 
#27
#27
Meyer and Shannon have recruits handed to them. ]

Is this because of the talent here in South Florida or because their school win games? Can't be just because of talent otherwise, the Vols would quit losing the best Tennessee kids "recruits" to Bama, LSU and GA. every year.

in state kids leaving TN for AL has to be changed, when fulmer was doin his thing it was AL kids comin to TN.

Dooley and Thompson have GA on lock, if they can regain TN and start workin AL we could get that 90's feeling again.
 
#28
#28
the Vols were 6th or 7th when Kiffin left.

Just trust me. We would have had the #2 class.

Looks at what Orgeron's recruits did the past 2 years at Ole Miss. His recruiting evaluations speak for themselves.
 
#29
#29
so when kiffin left the vols were #14 on rivals and USC #3

when the dust settled
vols ended #9 , USC #1

now lets take stone,hunter,rogers away from the vols class and add ambles and who else? ....it would take a lot more to be #2.

they struck out on 3 or 4 qbs last summer before finally landing one, struck out on every single marquee RB they chased , couldnt get the jucos to commit 100%- their biggest committed prize in the 2010 class was a kicker, their biggest stars from 2009 class are gone or on their way out.....but they are closers? not hardly..i liked the guy too, i still like him, im 36 yrs old and find his humor and attitude to be entertaining, but lets step back and look and black and white results

the truth is had they stayed we could have finished anywhere from 5-10.

go back to jan 11 posts and that was the consensus here. where you get this top 2 class i dunno. recruiting is not black and white. ill agree kiffin can recruit fine at USC but "imo" Dooley can recruit to knoxville far and away better than Kiffin could. at USC you try to get the best players and throw them on on the field vs washington or oregon state. that dont work in the SEC - you need 85 players 365 days a year. i think Dooley can get that out of young men where Kiffins games would fail

as for Orgeron ? on his own merits he failed at Ole Miss unless you consider a top 30 class and 10th in the SEC to be exceptional. MS has a lot of instate talent and great talent in border states but he couldnt get primo classes there. he got two 5 stars to ole miss and a #15 class once . those 2 5 stars ? jerrell powe (who is still learning to read) and Brent Schaeffer who was passed on by the 211 other schools. be real man

Kiffin is a used care salesman like a Mark Cuban or a Dan Synder, its sexy and sucked a lot of us in....Dooley is a tactician like a Jerry Krause or a Theo Epstein.

/rant off

:lolabove: Jerry Krause? The same guy who ran off the greatest coach ever, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen? Really?
 
#30
#30
the Vols were 6th or 7th when Kiffin left.

Just trust me. We would have had the #2 class.

Looks at what Orgeron's recruits did the past 2 years at Ole Miss. His recruiting evaluations speak for themselves.

6th or 7th? not on rivals. that is revisionist history. must i bump threads from pre jan -12th?

people were sweatin then worried cause other teams were adding commits and we were sittin stale. we had just missed like 5 recruits the previous weekend at the army game. everyone was tuned in to watch announcements of guys that the hype machine told us we had a chance on but then they didnt even put a TN hat on the table. totally whiffed the weekend on all those guys. we got played, most realize it now..some still wanna believe.

you say "just trust me" but your confidence is based on what you were fed by a PR pro. not reality. i cant trust that.
 
#31
#31
:lolabove: Jerry Krause? The same guy who ran off the greatest coach ever, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen? Really?

yeah thats his legacy? forget the championships? who the hell you think got jordan,pippen,jackson there to begin with ? 2of the 3 sucked after the left the bulls also. jackson fell into shaq/kobe, i could win win kobe (but hes still a great coach i wont deny) we could add John Schuerholz too as another guy who built a base instead of putting 5 sports cars at the front of the lot so the idiot customers can get excited when they see something shiny...
 
#34
#34
whatever though, im goin to bed.

you guys sleep well in the joe charboneau tshirts. thats the legacy your boy will leave in college football history, a 1 yr rockstar who despite mediocrity he captured the imagination of a hungry fanbase

now run off to wikipedia you teenagers and look him up:)
 
#35
#35
I don't buy into the #2 class ranking for UT in the 2010 class. The fact is that we'll know a lot more about CDD's ability to recruit at the end of this recruiting cycle than we'll ever know about Kitten's ability to recruit at UT. All else is speculation and diatribe but what else are these boards for?

Saban's recruiting prowess is heightened by his ability to get a high percentage of the players that he wants to sign LOIs at positions of need. Legacy and winning have only added to the outcome on NSD for UA. UT will not compete for championships until it too can cherry pick at positions of need and gain some kind of recruiting parity with UA and UF at this level. We'll know it when we see it - or not.
 
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#36
#36
6th or 7th? not on rivals. that is revisionist history. must i bump threads from pre jan -12th?

people were sweatin then worried cause other teams were adding commits and we were sittin stale. we had just missed like 5 recruits the previous weekend at the army game. [/B][/B]everyone was tuned in to watch announcements of guys that the hype machine told us we had a chance on but then they didnt even put a TN hat on the table. totally whiffed the weekend on all those guys. we got played, most realize it now..some still wanna believe.

you say "just trust me" but your confidence is based on what you were fed by a PR pro. not reality. i cant trust that.

so much fail in this post. i'll try to correct it all.

I just read back through the threads. We were 7th. we fell to 12th after Kiffin left. sorry.

That whole 2nd paragraph is just laughable. We got 2 commits at the Army game. Both of them 4stars and in the Rivals250. Ahmad Dixon and Brandon Willis.

Absolutely NONE of this was fed to me from some PR machine. Here is what I know as 100% FACT:

- Ambles and Taylor were not bumped up in stars until after Kiffin left.

- Nickell Robey, Christian Jones, Shon Coleman, and Demar Dorsey were Vol silents

- Chaz Green was all Vol. the Gators gave up hope.

- John Cullen had been calling the Vols as his leader for 6 months

- Kyle Prater was visiting UT the weekend that Kiffin was hired. And at the UT-Kansas bball game, Kiffin was confident Prater was gonna be a Vol.

would we signed all of them? who knows. but they were Vols on January 11th (except Prater). fact.

I have only 2 things to speculate about in this post. 1) DaRick would be a Vol no matter who the coach was as long as Nance had an offer. 2) Damien Robinson, Eddrick Loften, Justin Hunter, and Dave Clark were Vols whenever Kiffin would have wanted them.

Now you start adding up these Rivals points and let me know where that takes you. Apparently people don't realize what Kiffin really had in store for NSD.
 
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#37
#37
so much fail in this post. i'll try to correct it all.

I just read back through the threads. We were 7th. we fell to 12th after Kiffin left. sorry.

That whole 2nd paragraph is just laughable. We got 2 commits at the Army game. Both of them 4stars and in the Rivals250. Ahmad Dixon and Brandon Willis.

Absolutely NONE of this was fed to me from some PR machine. Here is what I know as 100% FACT:

- Ambles and Taylor were not bumped up in stars until after Kiffin left.

- Nickell Robey, Christian Jones, Shon Coleman, and Demar Dorsey were Vol silents

- Chaz Green was all Vol. the Gators gave up hope.

- John Cullen had been calling the Vols as his leader for 6 months

- Kyle Prater was visiting UT the weekend that Kiffin was hired. And at the UT-Kansas bball game, Kiffin was confident Prater was gonna be a Vol.

would we signed all of them? who knows. but they were Vols on January 11th (except Prater). fact.

I have only 2 things to speculate about in this post. 1) DaRick would be a Vol no matter who the coach was as long as Nance had an offer. 2) Damien Robinson, Eddrick Loften, Justin Hunter, and Dave Clark were Vols whenever Kiffin would have wanted them.

Now you start adding up these Rivals points and let me know where that takes you. Apparently people don't realize what Kiffin really had in store for NSD.

Prepare to be bashed.
 
#40
#40
lol

no harm man, i know you mean well here - but if really you believe all that you posted above - all your 100% fact bullets - then you are a very naive person
 
#41
#41
- what separates CLKs staff right now is the way they could close. Like I said, I think they are at pretty much the same spot right now, but CLK and CEO can close like no others. Best in the biz.

I wouldn't say "best in the biz"! That would go to Urbie, Richt, Gran, Shannon, Fisher, Butch Davis among others who are better!!!

:banghead2::banghead2: I agree that the Kiff and the gorilla could close on recruits. However, they closed well on a bunch of guys that aren't here anymore. Hell, I could sell a car to anyone if I offered it for free, but when you send the bill there is gonna be trouble. Lying your azz off is not a great long term strategy. Go VOLS!
 
#42
#42
Prepare to be bashed.

oh, i know. i didn't wanna post it.

In the words of Del Gue and Jeremiah Johnson:

JJ: "Ain't that hair l see on your head?"

DG: "lt sure is...

l've decided that when l depart
from this life, l'd leave something.

At least to be remembered
on some man's lodgepole."

[Courtesy of the writers, directors, and producers of the film Jeremiah Johnson and based on the novel Mountain Man by Vardis Fisher, and the story "Crow Killer" by Raymond W. Thorp and Robert Bunker]
 
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#43
#43
Kiffin and Co were great recruiters. No doubt about that. But they did not care anything at all about Tennessee. Nada. It is going to take winning some games to get back in on these top recruits. People discount the damage Kiffin did to this program (Yes I know he brought in some good recruits) . But, what he left was a terrible PR image. He repeatedly told the national media that UT is a second tier program that could not possibly compete with the likes of Southern Cal. He emphasized this even in his initial press conference at USC . It is going to take time and winning some games to change that perception with the top recruits.
 
#44
#44
Our staff is solid. Just can't affor to lose Thompson or Chaney.
Need to pay em to keep em.
 
#45
#45
The thing that sucks about making comparisons about the staffs is the old staff plays in a weaker conference in a talent rich state. We are going to hear about how great they are recruiting and how many wins they have for years.

If you are going to compare the staffs do it on the basis of how they did the job wearing an orange hat.
 
#46
#46
so much fail in this post. i'll try to correct it all.

I just read back through the threads. We were 7th. we fell to 12th after Kiffin left. sorry.

That whole 2nd paragraph is just laughable. We got 2 commits at the Army game. Both of them 4stars and in the Rivals250. Ahmad Dixon and Brandon Willis.

Absolutely NONE of this was fed to me from some PR machine. Here is what I know as 100% FACT:

- Ambles and Taylor were not bumped up in stars until after Kiffin left.

- Nickell Robey, Christian Jones, Shon Coleman, and Demar Dorsey were Vol silents

- Chaz Green was all Vol. the Gators gave up hope.

- John Cullen had been calling the Vols as his leader for 6 months

- Kyle Prater was visiting UT the weekend that Kiffin was hired. And at the UT-Kansas bball game, Kiffin was confident Prater was gonna be a Vol.

would we signed all of them? who knows. but they were Vols on January 11th (except Prater). fact.

I have only 2 things to speculate about in this post. 1) DaRick would be a Vol no matter who the coach was as long as Nance had an offer. 2) Damien Robinson, Eddrick Loften, Justin Hunter, and Dave Clark were Vols whenever Kiffin would have wanted them.

Now you start adding up these Rivals points and let me know where that takes you. Apparently people don't realize what Kiffin really had in store for NSD.

While I don't follow recruiting like most on this board, I believe that most of what is displayed here by LV to be sound.

Recruiting is the life blood of the Tennessee program and it all starts there in my opinion. First I hate Kiffin as much as anyone but no matter how you want to paint it - Kiffin and co were great recruiters and had they stayed we were on track to have a top tier, top ten football team. Those guys could recruit and they could coach. In the one year Kiff and co. were here the offensive execution was superior to most of the Fulmer years.

Coach Dooley is in my opinion off to a terrible start in recruiting and to paint it in any other light reflects of drinkers of the coolaid in my humble opinion. This has all the makings of a repeat of the Bill Battle era. He was a nice young guy who wanted to bring in all smart - good character players with two and three star skill sets and gradually diminished the talent pool until we simple could not compete.

This has nothing to do with Kiffin and everything to do with Dooley. If he can not recruit better than the start he is off to this off season then he will not be here 4 years from now.
 
#47
#47
so much fail in this post. i'll try to correct it all.

I just read back through the threads. We were 7th. we fell to 12th after Kiffin left. sorry.

That whole 2nd paragraph is just laughable. We got 2 commits at the Army game. Both of them 4stars and in the Rivals250. Ahmad Dixon and Brandon Willis.

Absolutely NONE of this was fed to me from some PR machine. Here is what I know as 100% FACT:

- Ambles and Taylor were not bumped up in stars until after Kiffin left.

- Nickell Robey, Christian Jones, Shon Coleman, and Demar Dorsey were Vol silents

- Chaz Green was all Vol. the Gators gave up hope.

- John Cullen had been calling the Vols as his leader for 6 months

- Kyle Prater was visiting UT the weekend that Kiffin was hired. And at the UT-Kansas bball game, Kiffin was confident Prater was gonna be a Vol.

would we signed all of them? who knows. but they were Vols on January 11th (except Prater). fact.

I have only 2 things to speculate about in this post. 1) DaRick would be a Vol no matter who the coach was as long as Nance had an offer. 2) Damien Robinson, Eddrick Loften, Justin Hunter, and Dave Clark were Vols whenever Kiffin would have wanted them.

Now you start adding up these Rivals points and let me know where that takes you. Apparently people don't realize what Kiffin really had in store for NSD.
So you don't think Lemonier would have come here had Kiffin stayed?
 
#48
#48
- We are in on pretty much the same amount of big time players as Kiffin was

- I do not think Dooley's staff are as good

- what separates CLKs staff right now is the way they could close. Like I said, I think they are at pretty much the same spot right now, but CLK and CEO can close like no others. Best in the biz. They would pull top 5 classes every year at UT if we weren't ever put on probation.

- Dooley closed VERY well last year, but he has to do that again to get a top 10.

- Dooley is recruiting high character and smart kids that will stay in the program till they graduate and that is HUGE.

There is no doubt that returning tp the top of the SEC will require a full roster. Attrition has absolutely crippled the Vols. Of course, that didn't just happen. There are several coaching and evaluation errors that contributed. There is some merit in recruiting kids that will be around all four years.

In a perfect world the Vols could put 22 starters on the All Academic roll. In the SEC you need more. It takes more than smarts and character to beat Alabama and Florida.
 
#49
#49
85- your accounts of the Jan recruiting situation, preKiffDeptarture, are horribly WRONG. There were quite a few TN hats out there. Those USC guys that acted so wierd in the interviews, they knew what was around the bend. Don't think they didn't. It was 20 or so days til one of the biggest decisions of their life, and all parties had a vested interest in keeping them informed. And to say that Palarday was our biggest slam dunk is laughable. Everyone in the '10 class, save 3 or 4, were Kiff guys. Hell, almost half of them were here already. Remember?
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#50
#50
(This is my new response to idiots, hopefully it will get so old that the idiots will stop posting idiocy)> LT+DD= 3 #1 classes.
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