Question for those who follow recruiting more than I do

[Lord Vader]

In the SEC you need more. It takes more than smarts and character to beat Alabama and Florida.

We shoulda beat the champs on their home field last year and we didn't have smarts, character, or talent haha.

So you don't think Lemonier would have come here had Kiffin stayed?

nah. i'm not quite sure what went on with him and UT but the word on him after the Army game was that UT was 2nd or 3rd for him.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

On your last point LV. (And I agree with them all. Although I think we've got closers that are capable of matching LK/EO's closing abilities.) The reason that's so HUGE is because of our current depth chart, right?
Its important anywhere, and always, but its HUGE bc we are 15 or so guys down, no?
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What do you have to base that on besides maybe Nance/Rogers? :unsure:

 

[Lexvol]

We shoulda beat the champs on their home field last year and we didn't have smarts, character, or talent haha.



nah. i'm not quite sure what went on with him and UT but the word on him after the Army game was that UT was 2nd or 3rd for him.

How about Ole Miss, Florida, UCLA and VT? I'm trying to work with it, but we need beef and speed.

 

[Lord Vader]

How about Ole Miss, Florida, UCLA and VT? I'm trying to work with it, but we need beef and speed.

Oh, I agree. I was just saying.

But UCLA, VT, and Ole Miss did beat us with less talent on paper.

I think CDDt is trying to build something in the exact mnodel of VT, but with better recruits.

 

[Lexvol]

Oh, I agree. I was just saying.

Dooley is going to have a steep learning curve. We will see how flexible he is with his "foundational plans" after this season. Hopefully he is willing to learn on the job.

 

[Lexvol]

Oh, I agree. I was just saying.

But UCLA, VT, and Ole Miss did beat us with less talent on paper.

I think CDDt is trying to build something in the exact mnodel of VT, but with better recruits.

Should have beaten UCLA. I lay that squarely on the coaching staff. Ole Miss and VT made us look like a JV team.

 

[zjcvols]

yeah thats his legacy? forget the championships? who the hell you think got jordan,pippen,jackson there to begin with ? 2of the 3 sucked after the left the bulls also. jackson fell into shaq/kobe, i could win win kobe (but hes still a great coach i wont deny) we could add John Schuerholz too as another guy who built a base instead of putting 5 sports cars at the front of the lot so the idiot customers can get excited when they see something shiny...

He didn't draft Michael Jordan. And yes, that is his legacy. That his own damn fault.

 

[zjcvols]

While I don't follow recruiting like most on this board, I believe that most of what is displayed here by LV to be sound.

Recruiting is the life blood of the Tennessee program and it all starts there in my opinion. First I hate Kiffin as much as anyone but no matter how you want to paint it - Kiffin and co were great recruiters and had they stayed we were on track to have a top tier, top ten football team. Those guys could recruit and they could coach. In the one year Kiff and co. were here the offensive execution was superior to most of the Fulmer years.

Coach Dooley is in my opinion off to a terrible start in recruiting and to paint it in any other light reflects of drinkers of the coolaid in my humble opinion. This has all the makings of a repeat of the Bill Battle era. He was a nice young guy who wanted to bring in all smart - good character players with two and three star skill sets and gradually diminished the talent pool until we simple could not compete.

This has nothing to do with Kiffin and everything to do with Dooley. If he can not recruit better than the start he is off to this off season then he will not be here 4 years from now.

Give him till mid-August. He still deserves some time.

 

[Give 'em Six]

There is no doubt that returning tp the top of the SEC will require a full roster. Attrition has absolutely crippled the Vols. Of course, that didn't just happen. There are several coaching and evaluation errors that contributed. There is some merit in recruiting kids that will be around all four years.

In a perfect world the Vols could put 22 starters on the All Academic roll. In the SEC you need more. It takes more than smarts and character to beat Alabama and Florida.

Yes. This whole character issue as it relates to CDD recruiting has been blown way out of proportion.

CDD has taken specific actions in order to minimize attrition. This provides comfort to parents that steps are being taken to ensure their young men are not going to end up in jail or end up getting kicked off the team for academic or other disciplinary reasons. In the process, he emphasizes to players and recruits what is expected of them as representatives of the university. The whole point is to keep players in school for their 4 or 5 years that they are on campus. Hence, the Vol for Life Program.

CDD has made an action statement that one of his top priorities is to stop the bleeding via the exodus of players that has depleted the roster. When we get back to our full 85 scholarship player level, he will be less risk averse. If players are similarly situated on the Board and have equivalent staff evaluations, CDD will take the higher character guy. If there is a notable difference [assuming the evaluation weighs behavioral attributes], he will take the more talented prospect and work with them in the Vol for Life and other student-athlete programs. Think NFL draft day.

This is not Ken Sparks and Carson-Newman College. Come Saturday, I want to see a player that would dance with the very Devil, himself, and leave him in the dust if he didn’t get out of the way. We can all go to church on Sunday and repent, if necessary. Somehow, I don’t think CDD would disagree.

 

[Lexvol]

Yes. This whole character issue as it relates to CDD recruiting has been blown way out of proportion.

CDD has taken specific actions in order to minimize attrition. This provides comfort to parents that steps are being taken to ensure their young men are not going to end up in jail or end up getting kicked off the team for academic or other disciplinary reasons. In the process, he emphasizes to players and recruits what is expected of them as representatives of the university. The whole point is to keep players in school for their 4 or 5 years that they are on campus. Hence, the Vol for Life Program.

CDD has made an action statement that one of his top priorities is to stop the bleeding via the exodus of players that has depleted the roster. When we get back to our full 85 scholarship player level, he will be less risk averse. If players are similarly situated on the Board and have equivalent staff evaluations, CDD will take the higher character guy. If there is a notable difference [assuming the evaluation weighs behavioral attributes], he will take the more talented prospect and work with them in the Vol for Life and other student-athlete programs. Think NFL draft day.

This is not Ken Sparks and Carson-Newman College. I don't like religion injected into politics nor politics darkening the door of the church and I certainly don’t want see either forced into the locker room. Come Saturday, I want to see a player that would dance with the very Devil, himself, and leave him in the dust if he didn’t get out of the way. We can all go to church on Sunday and repent, if necessary. Somehow, I don’t think CDD would disagree.

If his plan is flexible enough, maybe he can make it all work. Filling our 85 limit and keeping the number at 85 is very important right now. If you aren't filling it with SEC caliber athletes, it isn't going to change anything.

 

[Give 'em Six]

Give him till mid-August. He still deserves some time.

CDD and crew don't roll that way. They fight through the whistle. We won't know until NSD or even later. While that may be painful, it is what it is.

 

[zjcvols]

If his plan is flexible enough, maybe he can make it all work. Filling our 85 limit and keeping the number at 85 is very important right now. If you aren't filling it with SEC caliber athletes, it isn't going to change anything.

At the moment, we need all the SEC-caliber players we can get. Honestly, we can't be very picky unfortunately.

 

[Lord Vader]

We are filling our classes with SEC quality athletes. This class is solid right now. Not great, but solid. Our recruiting will keep getting better as the year goes on. It's crazy how much better we look now than we did 2 months ago before the eval period started.

 

[zjcvols]

CDD and crew don't roll that way. They fight through the whistle. We won't know until NSD or even later. While that may be painful, it is what it is.

Sorry, but we need to get some big-name guys by then. If we don't, I'm afraid that are class might not turn out well. We need momentum. I'm not even asking for top-10 players. But a guy like Richardson would really get the ball rolling.

 

[zjcvols]

We are filling our classes with SEC quality athletes. This class is solid right now. Not great, but solid. Our recruiting will keep getting better as the year goes on. It's crazy how much better we look now than we did 2 months ago before the eval period started.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but solid just won't cut in the SEC. Hopefully Dooley can turn it into great.

 

[gobigorange11]

Sorry, but we need to get some big-name guys by then. If we don't, I'm afraid that are class might not turn out well. We need momentum. I'm not even asking for top-10 players. But a guy like Richardson would really get the ball rolling.

he won't be announcing till nsd iirc

 

[zjcvols]

he won't be announcing till nsd iirc

Well, I wasn't meaning him specifically, but someone who has a really high profile like him.

 

[Lord Vader]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but solid just won't cut in the SEC. Hopefully Dooley can turn it into great.

If you really expect a great class for Tennessee in July or August, then I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[gobigorange11]

Well, I wasn't meaning him specifically, but someone who has a really high profile like him.

gotcha:hi:

 

[zjcvols]

If you really expect a great class for Tennessee in July or August, then I don't know what to tell ya.

I don't. I was talking about it being solid overall. I expect a top-10 class, of course not by July. But I do want to see a couple high profile guys by mid-August. I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

[arTfuldodger]

What do you have to base that on besides maybe Nance/Rogers? :unsure:

Kiff's guys were CLOSED by DD last year. oh yeh, don't let us forget: CT+ DD = 3 #1 classes.
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[volrook87]

No one who follows recruiting would post this.

wow really? if u will think back kiffin couldnt get the ball rolling on recruiting until the season was going and that's when he started the "look how much playing time our freshmen get! everyone should come to us and you will get alot of playin time too!" gig. at this point in the dooley era he is actually on pace ahead of kiffin as far as number of commits, however kiffin did target higher star recruits. give dooley time, he will put together a great team with high character and loads of talent but it will take 2 to 3 years to get the right players for his system, let the coaches and players build chemistry, get the number of scholarship players back up to 85 instead of 75 and for him and the other coaches to get accustomed to recruiting the southeast instead of their recruiting grounds from their previous school. dooley coaches his players to become great young men, not just football players. every recruit that has met dooley and came to the campus talks EXTREMELY highly of how dooley is smart, a straight shooter, very nice, has a great plan for the program and how he wants to better every young and help them succeed in football AND life...

 

[volproffan]

I've been visiting this site frequently since Kiffin was hired and have enjoyed many of the thoughtful and insightful comments about the program. Like many on here, I was initially impressed, but grew more worried about his bend the rules approach. I was initially very concerned with Coach Dooley, but the more I read and see of him, the more optimistic I've become. I'm hopefully optimistic, but I appreciate those that try to remind us about the reality of the challenges our team will be facing.

My family and I are still fairly new to Tennessee and I hope to take my wife to the Oregon game this fall. I feel it is a must win for us this year--it will really set the tone I think.

Anyways, I had a question about the 2 star TE recruit. Since he's a JC, would he count against this year's class or against a previous class?

 

[zjcvols]

I've been visiting this site frequently since Kiffin was hired and have enjoyed many of the thoughtful and insightful comments about the program. Like many on here, I was initially impressed, but grew more worried about his bend the rules approach. I was initially very concerned with Coach Dooley, but the more I read and see of him, the more optimistic I've become. I'm hopefully optimistic, but I appreciate those that try to remind us about the reality of the challenges our team will be facing.

My family and I are still fairly new to Tennessee and I hope to take my wife to the Oregon game this fall. I feel it is a must win for us this year--it will really set the tone I think.

Anyways, I had a question about the 2 star TE recruit. Since he's a JC, would he count against this year's class or against a previous class?

I agree in the respect that the Oregon game could set the tone. They are a better team. Neyland will be rocking. Beat Oregon, and maybe 7-8 wins is plausible. Don't beat Oregon, and maybe the players lose confidence and it goes downhill. Should be interesting.

 

[tennezz]

Saban is the best recruiter. He just has a mystique about him that no one else has.

But Kiffin and Orgeron would dominate anyone on that list on a fair playing ground. Meyer and Shannon have recruits handed to them. Gran is solid in one corner, of one state. Butch is a top 5 or so recruiter. He is the real deal. Richt is God awful.

What CLK and CEO were gonna pull on NSD here was gonna be sick. We woulda had the #2 class, not a doubt in my mind. Then they pulled the #1 class at USC in 2 weeks.

jmo gbo

There is no such thing as fair playing ground when Kif and Org are involved! :crazy: In 2 or 3 years the NCAA would have come calling like they have at USC!