Racist Government official

#126
#126
volinbham said:
I agreed with most of this but my view of her is changing.

As I posted above - her immediate reversion to blanket statements of racism against Fox News and the form of racism they are purportedly pushing makes me wonder if she really changed at all.

If one's immediate reaction is to throw the race card and throw it hard, I have to wonder about one's post-racial awakening
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I understand. But I am putting myself in her shoes. She literally woke up one morning and was out of a job and being called a racist.

If the NAACP edited a video tape of me recorded almost a quarter-century ago and then claimed I was a member of the KKK, and then it was ran all over a left-wing news outlet, and I lost my job because of it I would be saying many of the same things, whether it was true or not. She has a legitimate gripe, both at the perpetrator of the edited videotape and any news organization that ran with it without checking the facts...including her employer who fired her without getting her side of the story first.

Every interview I have seen with this woman shows a person who is well grounded and sensible when it comes to race. Her views on the social dynamic between the rich and poor is a little out there, but racially she is very sensible IMO.
 
#128
#128
rjd970 said:
I understand. But I am putting myself in her shoes. She literally woke up one morning and was out of a job and being called a racist.

If the NAACP edited a video tape of me recorded almost a quarter-century ago and then claimed I was a member of the KKK, and then it was ran all over a left-wing news outlet, and I lost my job because of it I would be saying many of the same things, whether it was true or not. She has a legitimate gripe, both at the perpetrator of the edited videotape and any news organization that ran with it without checking the facts...including her employer who fired her without getting her side of the story first.

Every interview I have seen with this woman shows a person who is well grounded and sensible when it comes to race. Her views on the social dynamic between the rich and poor is a little out there, but racially she is very sensible IMO.
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she claimed that Fox news wants to see blacks returned to a time when they had to look down in the presence of a white man. That doesn't sound particularly grounded to me.
 
#129
#129
MG1968 said:
she claimed that Fox news wants to see blacks returned to a time when they had to look down in the presence of a white man. That doesn't sound particularly grounded to me.
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absolutely. The little bit of additional exposure did little more for her than prove that her little dance for the NAACP was fabricated.
 
#130
#130
I haven't been able to follow this story very closely but heard yesterday on the radio that the left is demonizing FOX and others for running the story and getting her fired. They also stated that she was fired before it aired on any network after a coworker or supervisor saw the video posted on the internet. Is this true or is it simply bad info and rhetoric?
 
#131
#131
BigPapaVol said:
absolutely. The little bit of additional exposure did little more for her than prove that her little dance for the NAACP was fabricated.
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Her Today show comments about what she would tell Obama also had a lot of "we", what "we" experience, the struggle "we've" gone through, etc.

I don't view her as racist (note: I have a high bar for that term) but she definitely sees color and separates people by that. Not unusual.

She can be mad at FOX and Breitbart without making the accusation that they want the country to go back to pre-civil rights days. That tells me she views actions by whites different than blacks and attributes motives based on color.
 
#132
#132
volinbham said:
Her Today show comments about what she would tell Obama also had a lot of "we", what "we" experience, the struggle "we've" gone through, etc.

I don't view her as racist (note: I have a high bar for that term) but she definitely sees color and separates people by that. Not unusual.

She can be mad at FOX and Breitbart without making the accusation that they want the country to go back to pre-civil rights days. That tells me she views actions by whites different than blacks and attributes motives based on color.
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At a minimum, she's a bigot. I agree, the term racism should have a high bar as it means that one believes that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
 
#133
#133
this is akin to the semantics argument that obama isn't a socialist because he doesnt' fit the textbook definition. she's a racist plain and simple.
 
#134
#134
volinbham said:
Her Today show comments about what she would tell Obama also had a lot of "we", what "we" experience, the struggle "we've" gone through, etc.

I don't view her as racist (note: I have a high bar for that term) but she definitely sees color and separates people by that. Not unusual.

She can be mad at FOX and Breitbart without making the accusation that they want the country to go back to pre-civil rights days. That tells me she views actions by whites different than blacks and attributes motives based on color.
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I'm with you on the racism as a charge idea. It's massively overblown. Race is always a consideration, however small it might be, in how people view the world. The idea that it will someday disappear is absurd. We all gravitate at least a little toward those most like ourselves. If we can recognize that, this debate gets much easier.

The racism side of that debate no longer pops up, until someone, on either side of the fence, needs an excuse for their particular problems. It's disgusting that people regularly float it with no recognition that it's most often a hollow rationalization.

Senator Webb, of VA, wrote an editorial to the WSJ today that addresses this particular issue with an interesting set of stats about the South and knee-jerk affirmative action. I don't agree with all he said, but it's interesting.

Heck, let me find the link and I'll just put it here:

James Webb: Diversity and the Myth of White Privilege - WSJ.com
 
#136
#136
droski said:
this is akin to the semantics argument that obama isn't a socialist because he doesnt' fit the textbook definition. she's a racist plain and simple.
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she clearly looks after those like herself at the expense of others, but I don't think she harbors some mentality that those unlike her are somehow inferior or undeserving. Her bent, while ugly to me, isn't that far apart from the jingoism inherent in the "buy American" worldview. We like those like us, who tend to share our belief systems.
 
#137
#137
volinbham said:
Her Today show comments about what she would tell Obama also had a lot of "we", what "we" experience, the struggle "we've" gone through, etc.

I don't view her as racist (note: I have a high bar for that term) but she definitely sees color and separates people by that. Not unusual.

She can be mad at FOX and Breitbart without making the accusation that they want the country to go back to pre-civil rights days. That tells me she views actions by whites different than blacks and attributes motives based on color.
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I'd say an overwhelming majority of the people in this country sees differences and make initial assumptions based on race. The key is not to act on it. That's not always an easy thing to do. Her whole point in the NAACP speech was to say that she had learned not to do exactly that.

Saying "we" in terms of shared experience or perspective with a black POTUS is not the least bit surprising. Only those chomping at the bit to insinuate it means that the black POTUS is part of some effort to promote all things black at the expense of the rest of us would buy into that.

Ergo, you.
 
#138
#138
lawgator1 said:
I'd say an overwhelming majority of the people in this country sees differences and make initial assumptions based on race. The key is not to act on it. That's not always an easy thing to do. Her whole point in the NAACP speech was to say that she had learned not to do exactly that.

Saying "we" in terms of shared experience or perspective with a black POTUS is not the least bit surprising. Only those chomping at the bit to insinuate it means that the black POTUS is part of some effort to promote all things black at the expense of the rest of us would buy into that.

Ergo, you.
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And my whole point is that her follow on garbage trying to generalize about everyone involved at a couple of large organizations proves that all she was doing was talking. She has no more lived what she was saying than Obama has.
 
#139
#139
lawgator1 said:
I'd say an overwhelming majority of the people in this country sees differences and make initial assumptions based on race. The key is not to act on it. That's not always an easy thing to do. Her whole point in the NAACP speech was to say that she had learned not to do exactly that.

Saying "we" in terms of shared experience or perspective with a black POTUS is not the least bit surprising. Only those chomping at the bit to insinuate it means that the black POTUS is part of some effort to promote all things black at the expense of the rest of us would buy into that.

Ergo, you.
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second point first - she wasn't including Obama in "we" - he didn't live the black experience she did. She was separating him out. She was further distinguishing between her type of black person and everyone else.

The problem with that thinking is not recognizing different experiences but lies in lumping all others into a "not like me" category then attributing motives to those not like you.

Further, I've never insinuated that Obama is promoting all things black at the expense of the rest of us. never, not once.

On the first point, if it's only a problem when people act (eg. discriminate) why do you hyperventilate about the TP?
 
#140
#140
volinbham said:
second point first - she wasn't including Obama in "we" - he didn't live the black experience she did. She was separating him out. She was further distinguishing between her type of black person and everyone else.

The problem with that thinking is not recognizing different experiences but lies in lumping all others into a "not like me" category then attributing motives to those not like you.

Further, I've never insinuated that Obama is promoting all things black at the expense of the rest of us. never, not once.

On the first point, if it's only a problem when people act (eg. discriminate) why do you hyperventilate about the TP?
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she was absolutely saying obama wasn't black enough for her which goes to show how extremist she is. hard to imagine a person who believes that strongly that white people are out to screw her and clearly seperates herself from well off black people wouldn't use this bias in her public life.
 
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#141
#141
volinbham said:
second point first - she wasn't including Obama in "we" - he didn't live the black experience she did. She was separating him out. She was further distinguishing between her type of black person and everyone else.

The problem with that thinking is not recognizing different experiences but lies in lumping all others into a "not like me" category then attributing motives to those not like you.

Further, I've never insinuated that Obama is promoting all things black at the expense of the rest of us. never, not once.

On the first point, if it's only a problem when people act (eg. discriminate) why do you hyperventilate about the TP?
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I'm sorry. I read your post to suggest that there was something objectionable about her referring to her conversation with Obama as having an element to it of referencing the fact that they are both black. Didn't mean to go overboard on that.

As an aside, and taking a step back from it all, I do think this is a very interesting time in race relations. Our first black POTUS and a lot of people out there still trying to figure out where they stand in the world.

This lady's experience -- of first having seen some awful things, then overcame it, then being used as a proxy for the exact opposite of what she stood for, and then having "her own" make a quick judgment and run away from her.... and then have that all come out on national television in the span of 5 days?

Has a lot of interesting debate/discussion going. I will say that I have found a number of conservatives who jumped on the story at the beginning (Malkin, O'Reilly) to seem to be genuinely taken aback by it and personally upset and torn at how to deal with it.

Some good will come from it.
 
#142
#142
lawgator1 said:
This lady's experience -- of first having seen some awful things, then overcame it, then being used as a proxy for the exact opposite of what she stood for, and then having "her own" make a quick judgment and run away from her.... and then have that all come out on national television in the span of 5 days?
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You can't really believe that this woman has "overcome" something?

You must have enormous respect, then, for our lone KKK member senator. Look how far he came.
 
#143
#143
BigPapaVol said:
she clearly looks after those like herself at the expense of others, but I don't think she harbors some mentality that those unlike her are somehow inferior or undeserving. Her bent, while ugly to me, isn't that far apart from the jingoism inherent in the "buy American" worldview. We like those like us, who tend to share our belief systems.
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i disagree. from her perspective anyone who hasn't gone through the racism she thinks she has experienced (obama being one) is a person who should be distrusted.
 
#144
#144
droski said:
i disagree. from her perspective anyone who hasn't gone through the racism she thinks she has experienced (obama being one) is a person who should be distrusted.
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we all have that mentality to some degree. I you have experienced my experiences, you simply can't appreciate them.
 
#145
#145
In many ways I applaud the Obama administration and the NAACP and the LGAACP for waiting this long into his presidency to play the race card. Great to see the hope and change from the Democratic playbook on the cusp of the November elections.
 
#146
#146
Lexvol said:
In many ways I applaud the Obama administration and the NAACP and the LGAACP for waiting this long into his presidency to play the race card. Great to see the hope and change from the Democratic playbook on the cusp of the November elections.
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Picked a really odd way to play the card in this instance.

I don't quite think that Obama waited in playing the card. In fact, his meteoric rise in wiping out Hillary was almost purely race card.
 
#147
#147
BigPapaVol said:
we all have that mentality to some degree. I you have experienced my experiences, you simply can't appreciate them.
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yes but most of us don't use this lack of experience against the other person and ASSUME that anyone of a certain race couldn't possibly have experienced anything similar.
 
#148
#148
droski said:
yes but most of us don't use this lack of experience against the other person and ASSUME that anyone of a certain race couldn't possibly have experienced anything similar.
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that's true, but we're white and don't have the right to do that. You need to understand how rights work in this country these days.
 
#149
#149
There is a difference between prejudice, bigotry and racism. Not sure if that's the right order but racism is definitely and extreme form of prejudice and bigotry IMHO.

Racism gets used way too frequently and I would guess the percentage of Americans that are truly racist is very low.
 
#150
#150
volinbham said:
There is a difference between prejudice, bigotry and racism. Not sure if that's the right order but racism is definitely and extreme form of prejudice and bigotry IMHO.

Racism gets used way too frequently and I would guess the percentage of Americans that are truly racist is very low.
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Nailed.

The word racism has become the calling card because it invokes the nastiest end of the spectrum.
 
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