Rank the US Presidents

#276
#276
BowlBrother85 said:
This post marks some hypocrisy on your part. You could say that Nathan Bedford Forrest evolved, similar to Lincoln. I wouldn't argue the point. He clearly did change his tone over time. However, you were not willing to give Lincoln the same credit for that in some of your previous posts. You insisted that Lincoln believed in white supremacy... and implied that his change in tone near the end of his life didn't matter. I'm a big believer in the notion that people can change. You just aren't very consistent with who you want to give credit for changing.
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Lincolns tone didn’t change much, 3 days before his assassination he addressed LA denying suffrage to blacks, ”highly intelligent and those that served the union”. Hell, most union states barred blacks from voting until years after the civil war.
 
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#277
#277
peaygolf said:
Now we are “comparing” racist ideals? So for your “cancel culture” it’s ok to cherry pick and decide who is least racist than another?
Wow. “All racism should be ended.” “Well he wasn’t as racist as he was, so we’ll let him slide.” Which one is it?

Edit.......I’m dropping the conversation with you. You have every right to say how you feel, as do I. We are not going to change each other’s minds......and that’s ok. We can both be partially correct and partially be wrong......
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When you're supporting the KKK you're 100% wrong bro
 
#278
#278
Tyler Durden said:
When you're supporting the KKK you're 100% wrong bro
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I ain’t your “Bro” and the original clan......hell, I can’t have a debate with you. You have zero general knowledge on the subject, much less deeply studied knowledge and fact. Keep goose stepping and follow what everyone does. God forbid you actually research and learn for yourself the truth about anything. You obviously didn’t attend a school, or have an instructor who wanted students to research the facts and not just the conceived truth.

it’s ok. Following the pack is very noble!
 
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#279
#279
peaygolf said:
I ain’t your “Bro” and the original clan......hell, I can’t have a debate with you. You have zero general knowledge on the subject, much less deeply studied knowledge and fact. Keep goose stepping and follow what everyone does. God forbid you actually research and learn for yourself the truth about anything. You obviously didn’t attend a school, or have an instructor who wanted students to research the facts and not just the conceived truth.

it’s ok. Following the pack is very noble!
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Go on, tell me how noble the klan is.
 
#281
#281
Tyler Durden said:
Go on, tell me how noble the klan is.
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Do some actual research. You very well could learn something

“Former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was the KKK’s first grand wizard. In 1869, he unsuccessfully tried to disband it after he grew critical of the Klan’s excessive violence.” From the History Channel.
 
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#282
#282
BowlBrother85 said:
This post marks some hypocrisy on your part. You could say that Nathan Bedford Forrest evolved, similar to Lincoln. I wouldn't argue the point. He clearly did change his tone over time. However, you were not willing to give Lincoln the same credit for that in some of your previous posts. You insisted that Lincoln believed in white supremacy... and implied that his change in tone near the end of his life didn't matter. I'm a big believer in the notion that people can change. You just aren't very consistent with who you want to give credit for changing.
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Lincoln's "change" was politically motivated. The fact he believed only black war veterans deserved the right to vote demonstrates his views on race hadn't changed as much as you profess. He was always anti-slavery, but that doesn't mean he saw blacks as equal. And as for calls of citizenship, without the right to vote, would they have really been citizens? And this is ignoring that no women could vote, black or white. Lincoln did not advocate foe ALL black men to be given the right to vote. Only those that served, or those deemed "very intelligent". Lincoln's own words from his last public speech.

Abraham Lincoln's Last Speech (lincolnabraham.com)


Lincoln's thinking was progressive for his time, but it was not without racist overtones.
 
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#284
#284
Weezer said:
Lincoln's "change" was politically motivated. The fact he believed only black war veterans deserved the right to vote demonstrates his views on race hadn't changed as much as you profess. He was always anti-slavery, but that doesn't mean he saw blacks as equal. And as for calls of citizenship, without the right to vote, would they have really been citizens? And this is ignoring that no women could vote, black or white. Lincoln did not advocate foe ALL black men to be given the right to vote. Only those that served, or those deemed "very intelligent". Lincoln's own words from his last public speech.

Abraham Lincoln's Last Speech (lincolnabraham.com)


Lincoln's thinking was progressive for his time, but it was not without racist overtones.
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The fact Lincoln never spoke out in favor of black suffrage in the union states shows his support of it in the southern states was 100% politically motivated.
 
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#287
#287
hog88 said:
That bullet saved us from him serving multiple terms.
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I honestly believe "that bullet" made him the hero he's viewed as today. I doubt he's viewed as favorably if tied more to Reconstruction. JWB made Lincoln a martyr.
 
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#289
#289
Tastylicks said:
Perhaps he would've better evolved his views over time if someone didn't put a bullet in his head
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Or perhaps, with the war won, he backtracks on some of his political moves to placate a disgruntled South. Think of the Ten Percent Plan.

Here's a link to wiki for an overview if you're not familiar.

Ten percent plan - Wikipedia
 
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#290
#290
Weezer said:
I honestly believe "that bullet" made him the hero he's viewed as today. I doubt he's viewed as favorably if tied more to Reconstruction. JWB made Lincoln a martyr.
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Much like JFK, had he not been assassinated they wouldn't be remembered so fondly. BUT I have no doubt had Lincoln lived he would have done irreversible harm.
 
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#291
#291
BowlBrother85 said:
That is not true. Lincoln also advocated for black voting rights, and he argued for blacks to have citizenship. He also famously said that "all men are created equal" while referencing the Declaration of Independence. This is pure ignorance on your part. Some of this stuff is embarrassing to read.
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See my previous post. Lincoln advocated for limited black suffrage. He did not advocate for it across the board.
 
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#293
#293
Tastylicks said:
Yeah well those rich plantation owners shouldn't have tried to overthrow the USA. Screwed a lot up, thats for sure
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They didn't. They just wanted their own form of freedom. They tried to secede peacefully but Lincoln did not allow that.
 
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#294
#294
hog88 said:
The fact Lincoln never spoke out in favor of black suffrage in the union states shows his support of it in the southern states was 100% politically motivated.
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Lincoln gave us the 5 dollar bill. Shame on you pig88.
 
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#296
#296
The South did not want war. They just wanted to break away and form their own country because they felt their interests were no longer being best served by being part of the United States. And yes, the growing abolition movement was part of that. The South absolutely did not want to give up slavery. And yes, slavery is a vile and evil institution. But there is still a larger question of whether the citizens of a state can decide to secede from the Union, peacefully? Only Lincoln made sure it wouldn't happen peacefully. Make no mistake, I'm glad the war led to the 13th Amendment that abolished slavery. That doesn't mean Lincoln had the Constitutional authority at the time to prevent the Southern states from seceding. A SCOTUS decision after the fact does not change that. By that time, Lincoln had set his own precedent. The SCOTUS was not going to counteract it. Even today, I believe our Constitution provides a path to secession.
 
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#300
#300
Reagan should be at the very bottom. He ruined California and by proxy, America with his amnesty. Amnesty just brings in democrats and lowers wages via surplus of labor.
 
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