Rank the US Presidents

#226
#226
BowlBrother85 said:
I would argue 2nd best. He was far from perfect... but there is some irony in how the same people who attack the culture of political correctness, are quick to disparage some cherry-picked writings of Lincoln as being "racist", when all they really were was racially insensitive... over 100 years before political correctness was even a thing.
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Cherry Picking??
Racist or racially insensitive.....whole bunch a people have lost their careers for being racially insensitive, not necessarily racist. But it’s ok for Lincoln to say flat out that blacks should not even intermingle with whites, and even said they were so unworthy that they should be shipped back to Africa?

Yes he was “against” slavery as a whole, but don’t ever say he wasn’t racist.


Edit: Now.......if you want to pretend or say he “changed his attitude, and saw that all men are equal, fine. Now if that’s the case and he changed as a human, then you need to feel the exact same thing towards Nathan Bedford Forest. Do some research on NBF, and not a textbook from school. See what he did later in life.....and don’t give me the KKK crap. It wasn’t against blacks, it was trying to find a way to keep out Yankees from being elected in the south. It wasn’t supposed be a violent club and when it became violent, he and several others left the Klan.
 
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#227
#227
midnight orange said:
You’ve never quoted anything from Wikipedia? You never dispute the facts but you always question the source. I quoted Wikipedia because I can back it. If you wish I will do so.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but think for a second if what you are claiming makes any sense.

It's common knowledge that Richmond fell on April 2nd and the Confederacy surrendered in Appomattox on April 9th. Does it make sense to you, that as recently as February 3rd (literally 65 days before the end of the war), Lincoln would have made such a major concession to the Confederates... and that they would have declined it????
 
#228
#228
peaygolf said:
Cherry Picking??
Racist or racially insensitive.....whole bunch a people have lost their careers for being racially insensitive, not necessarily racist. But it’s ok for Lincoln to say flat out that blacks should not even intermingle with whites, and even said they were so unworthy that they should be shipped back to Africa?

Yes he was “against” slavery as a whole, but don’t ever say he wasn’t racist.
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He evolved over time... as I have said throughout. He also advocated for the citizenship of black people, which was considered radical at the time.
 
#232
#232
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#233
#233
BowlBrother85 said:
Sure, he was. What was the electoral college vote total? 212 for Lincoln and 21 for McClellan. A real squeaker.
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He didn’t say it was a squeaker. It very well would have been if not for appeasing the abolitionists and the victory at Gettysburg.
 
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#234
#234
BowlBrother85 said:
I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but think for a second if what you are claiming makes any sense.

It's common knowledge that Richmond fell on April 2nd and the Confederacy surrendered in Appomattox on April 9th. Does it make sense to you, that as recently as February 3rd (literally 65 days before the end of the war), Lincoln would have made such a major concession to the Confederates... and that they would have declined it????
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If I’m looking at it through Lincoln’s pov without the hindsight of the finality of the war it makes sense. Several things, Lincoln may have been lying and just offered it (Seward actually on behalf of Lincoln) as an olive branch in which he was planning on reneging and that wouldn’t have been unusual for Lincoln. He was under no guarantee that the defeat of The Army of North Virginia would be the end of major hostilities (see the Land of Kirby Smithdom) still under control by the Confederacy in the west or that Jefferson Davis was calling for mass guerilla warfare in the event of defeat. There is also thought that Lincoln wanted to reunite with the South politically to defeat the Radical Republicans.
Hampton Roads Conference – Encyclopedia Virginia
 
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#235
#235
peaygolf said:
Cherry Picking??
Racist or racially insensitive.....whole bunch a people have lost their careers for being racially insensitive, not necessarily racist. But it’s ok for Lincoln to say flat out that blacks should not even intermingle with whites, and even said they were so unworthy that they should be shipped back to Africa?

Yes he was “against” slavery as a whole, but don’t ever say he wasn’t racist.


Edit: Now.......if you want to pretend or say he “changed his attitude, and saw that all men are equal, fine. Now if that’s the case and he changed as a human, then you need to feel the exact same thing towards Nathan Bedford Forest. Do some research on NBF, and not a textbook from school. See what he did later in life.....and don’t give me the KKK crap. It wasn’t against blacks, it was trying to find a way to keep out Yankees from being elected in the south. It wasn’t supposed be a violent club and when it became violent, he and several others left the Klan.
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So.....Abraham Lincoln was bad. And the KKK guy was good.

History for psychopaths
 
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#236
#236
Tastylicks said:
So.....Abraham Lincoln was bad. And the KKK guy was good.

History for psychopaths
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Did you actually read what I said, or are not able to comprehend sentences?

IF one says, like @BowlBrother85 did, that Lincoln “evolved over time,” then one needs to have the same idea about Forest who EVOLVED over time as well.
 
#241
#241
Tastylicks said:
Eh, I don't think the outcome of the war was ever really in doubt, I could be wrong there, but either way I don't care why. Results are results. He freed the slaves so he has my respect
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Only he didn't free the slaves. Slavery was abolished by the 13th Amendment.
 
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#242
#242
peaygolf said:
Did you actually read what I said, or are not able to comprehend sentences?

IF one says, like @BowlBrother85 did, that Lincoln “evolved over time,” then one needs to have the same idea about Forest who EVOLVED over time as well.
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Evolving from an insensitive stance into someone who does more for an entire race of people than anyone in American history up to that point is a little different than evolving from a guy who hates blacks to a guy who hates blacks, jews, and anyone else who's not an Anglo-Saxon protestant male.
 
#244
#244
Tyler Durden said:
Evolving from an insensitive stance into someone who does more for an entire race of people than anyone in American history up to that point is a little different than evolving from a guy who hates blacks to a guy who hates blacks, jews, and anyone else who's not an Anglo-Saxon protestant male.
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What exactly did he do for black people?
 
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#245
#245
Tyler Durden said:
Evolving from an insensitive stance into someone who does more for an entire race of people than anyone in American history up to that point is a little different than evolving from a guy who hates blacks to a guy who hates blacks, jews, and anyone else who's not an Anglo-Saxon protestant male.
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Forest helped blacks by campaigning for education rights and voting rights, and admitted slavery was evil. I’d say that qualifies as evolving. Lincoln’s dislike towards blacks never evolved. Maybe it would have, had not been shot?

There are a couple of people in this forum who need to know history instead of saying the same incorrect crap others think
 
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#246
#246
Most people only remember Nathan Bedford Forrest for his early ties to the KKK. Those people have never actually read up on the man, and how he eventually became a crusader for black rights.
 
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#249
#249
peaygolf said:
Forest helped blacks by campaigning for education rights and voting rights, and admitted slavery was evil. I’d say that qualifies as evolving. Lincoln’s dislike towards blacks never evolved. Maybe it would have, had not been shot?

There are a couple of people in this forum who need to know history instead of saying the same incorrect crap others think
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There are people in this forum who think Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant and evil human being while also thinking the figurehead of the KKK who organized mass lynchings is the beacon of morality.
 
#250
#250
Weezer said:
Most people only remember Nathan Bedford Forrest for his early ties to the KKK. Those people have never actually read up on the man, and how he eventually became a crusader for black rights.
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Finally!!!!!! Weezer! You sir actually read and study history, not just the BS they teach in school. These same people have zero ides that George Washington owned slaves, as well as Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin. Jefferson raping a slave isn’t a big deal....I guess? Their monuments are in no threat to be removed.
 
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