Recruiting diminishing returns under Heupel's system?

#76
#76
tennesseekilt said:
First of all, I realize this is a Georgia media guy of some sort, so we have to automatically take what he says with a grain of salt for a lot of reasons. However, I'm also wondering if there is any sort of grain of truth to what he says. If the answer is 'no,' please explain your rationale with something besides a blanket dismissal or blind trust. My instinct is that he's wrong as well, but I want to know some solid reasons for why that's the case.

Here's a link to the first tweet (there are several). For those of you on the platform, probably worth looking at the responses and some of his answers to those.



And for those of you who don't Twitter, here is what he says:

The ironic part of Tennessee beginning to recruit well is that Tennessee is running a system that is designed to dramatically lessen the need for talent at OT and QB… It’s a law of diminishing returns. Over time, Heupel will actually be minimizing the talent advantage he’s built

I see UT fans don’t understand…

Guess what guys? The best way to use blue-chips isn’t to run a offense with 4 patterns in the tree. There’s a reason nobody is running the old Baylor stuff anymore. If the Vols recruit 5* OL one day, Heupel’s system will hold back their potential

There is a reason that teams with elite lines aren’t hiring someone to run this offense for them. Good DL’s have shredded it for 20 yrs.

You don’t like hearing it, but if UT starts to recruit like an elite program you’ll soon find yourselves calling for changes in the scheme

There’s a lot of you going the “you don’t understand Heupel’s offense” route… I promise you I do. That’s why I picked UT to lose by 21 in Athens last fall
Click to expand...

I’ll start off by saying this guy hates everything not UGA. His twitter back ground is literally says “DAWG CENTRAL” in bold red, and white lettering with black background. He says **** all the time with no stats or facts to back it up.
Yes while it’s true that UGA did beat the Vols, it had nothing to do with scheme. The offense is just fine and will get better as Heupel recruits better players. The real reason why UGA beat UT was because the talent difference at every position. If Heupel had the same talent level as Kirby, he wouldn’t have stopped that offense.

This same guy has said that Darnell Wright being a top 10 pick has nothing to do with Heupel and all to do with Darnell Himself. This guy said that Darnell was born a top 10 pick and would have been that pick regardless if Hueple shows up or not. He’s full of **** and tired of the UT hype and he isn’t a fan at all. He is a biased reporter and that’s it. Now let’s look at some facts about this offense and former and current players.

Darnell Wright- under Heupel- One of just 14 FBS offensive linemen with more than 850 snaps played in 2022 and no sacks allowed with an efficiency of 99.0 or better according to PFF. The only SEC offensive lineman with more than 850 snaps played and an efficiency of over 99.1. What did he do prior to Heupels arrival? You would think of this offense wasn’t built to maximize talent that Wright would have least give up 1 sack in that many plays he was on the field for.

Hooker @ Tech- 3 years- 197-312, 63.1%, 2,894 yards, 22 TD’s and 7int. He was on no one’s draft board while at tech. In fact he lost his starting position at Tech.
Hooker @ UT- Under Heupel- 2 years- 435-632, 68.8%, 6,080 yds, 58 pass TD’s, 5int, even double the amount of chances he still threw less interceptions and his yards per pass was more at UT. If he doesn’t tear his ACL or was a couple years younger, he doesn’t drop below the 2nd round.

Hyatt- Blintinkof Award winner. Had 15 TD’s this year alone, and had 4 TD’s previous two years.

Tillman- 1497 yds his junior and senior season combined with 15 TD’s. Previous 2 years he had 127 yds, and 2 TD’s combined .

Players drafted:

2017-2021 drafts- 13 players drafted. Average round for palyers during this time is 4th round. 6 players drafted in the top 3 rounds.

2022-2023 drafts- 10 players drafted in half the time,3.5rd is average round for players drafted, 7 players drafted in the top 3 rounds.

I would say just looking off the draft classes, that Huepel has done more in half the amount of time as the last 3 coaches before him.

Now since this Douchenozzle wants to also talk about skill players being drafted, you can also look back at the prior year draft classes. But I will post it here so no one has to go digging. I’ll break down positions drafted under Huepel last 2 years and compare them to the last 4 years prior to him.


2017-2021 (4years)Drafts/position drafted:
WR- 3
QB- 1
RB- 2
OL- 1
DL- 3
LB- 1
DB- 2

2022-2023 (2years) Drafts(Heupel):
WR- 3
QB- 1
RB- 0
OL- 2
DL- 2
LB- 0
DB- 2

By time Hueple completes his 3rd year at UT, he will have had more players drafted in 3 years than the last 3 coaches combined. Tennessee did not have anyone drafted in 2015 or 2016 classes. Since 2008 UT has has had 5 or more players drafted in the same draft only 4 times. Huepel has 2 of those draft classes with at least 5 players.

This dude likes to sling **** at UT every chance he gets even when it’s absurdly false. He sees UT as a legit threat with the recruting Heuple is now doing and he is going to write anything he can to paint UT in a negative picture to help UGA with recruiting. Pay this dude no attention has he clearly does not know what he’s talking about when it comes to Huepels recruiting, and his offense. If this offense was so basic then why is it still effective. This type of offensive system was started by Art Briles, and Heupel has ran this type of offense at Oklahoma as OC, Missouri as OC, UCF, and now UT. There is plenty of tape on it and yet year after year Heupel has a top 10 offense every year. Again this dude is a biased reporter and UGA homer.
 
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#77
#77
tennesseekilt said:
First of all, I realize this is a Georgia media guy of some sort, so we have to automatically take what he says with a grain of salt for a lot of reasons. However, I'm also wondering if there is any sort of grain of truth to what he says. If the answer is 'no,' please explain your rationale with something besides a blanket dismissal or blind trust. My instinct is that he's wrong as well, but I want to know some solid reasons for why that's the case.

Here's a link to the first tweet (there are several). For those of you on the platform, probably worth looking at the responses and some of his answers to those.



And for those of you who don't Twitter, here is what he says:

The ironic part of Tennessee beginning to recruit well is that Tennessee is running a system that is designed to dramatically lessen the need for talent at OT and QB… It’s a law of diminishing returns. Over time, Heupel will actually be minimizing the talent advantage he’s built

I see UT fans don’t understand…

Guess what guys? The best way to use blue-chips isn’t to run a offense with 4 patterns in the tree. There’s a reason nobody is running the old Baylor stuff anymore. If the Vols recruit 5* OL one day, Heupel’s system will hold back their potential

There is a reason that teams with elite lines aren’t hiring someone to run this offense for them. Good DL’s have shredded it for 20 yrs.

You don’t like hearing it, but if UT starts to recruit like an elite program you’ll soon find yourselves calling for changes in the scheme

There’s a lot of you going the “you don’t understand Heupel’s offense” route… I promise you I do. That’s why I picked UT to lose by 21 in Athens last fall
Click to expand...

I think what your trying to say here is for years Ga. has enjoyed a competitive advantage because they've had an advantage in pure athletic talent. Tennessee, like every other team has had to try to scheme something to counter that talent advantage. No other choice. Now Tennessee is making a concerted effort to close that talent gap. So your point is stop running an effective offense and just try to beat us in the trenches. When we do completely close that gap, why would we (or any other team) not continue to look for ways to out scheme Ga in any way possible? That has always been and will continue to be the goal in football no matter how much talent a team has.
This sounds a lot like another team who’s coach wanted to change the rules to prevent a team from going at such a fast pace.
 
#79
#79
"System that is really good with average talent only improves marginally with better talent, so ha!"

What a take.
 
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#80
#80
To the original poster, I would say: "Ask yourself one simple question. If this offensive scheme is simply a 'gimmick,' why has it produced virtually identical numbers at three different universities?"

To the contrary, Heupel now has a platform to truly showcase his system at the highest possible collegiate level. He can recruit a higher level of talent than he has in the past.
 
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#81
#81
VolMarine1371 said:
I’ll start off by saying this guy hates everything not UGA. His twitter back ground is literally says “DAWG CENTRAL” in bold red, and white lettering with black background. He says **** all the time with no stats or facts to back it up.
Yes while it’s true that UGA did beat the Vols, it had nothing to do with scheme. The offense is just fine and will get better as Heupel recruits better players. The real reason why UGA beat UT was because the talent difference at every position. If Heupel had the same talent level as Kirby, he wouldn’t have stopped that offense.

This same guy has said that Darnell Wright being a top 10 pick has nothing to do with Heupel and all to do with Darnell Himself. This guy said that Darnell was born a top 10 pick and would have been that pick regardless if Hueple shows up or not. He’s full of **** and tired of the UT hype and he isn’t a fan at all. He is a biased reporter and that’s it. Now let’s look at some facts about this offense and former and current players.

Darnell Wright- under Heupel- One of just 14 FBS offensive linemen with more than 850 snaps played in 2022 and no sacks allowed with an efficiency of 99.0 or better according to PFF. The only SEC offensive lineman with more than 850 snaps played and an efficiency of over 99.1. What did he do prior to Heupels arrival? You would think of this offense wasn’t built to maximize talent that Wright would have least give up 1 sack in that many plays he was on the field for.

Hooker @ Tech- 3 years- 197-312, 63.1%, 2,894 yards, 22 TD’s and 7int. He was on no one’s draft board while at tech. In fact he lost his starting position at Tech.
Hooker @ UT- Under Heupel- 2 years- 435-632, 68.8%, 6,080 yds, 58 pass TD’s, 5int, even double the amount of chances he still threw less interceptions and his yards per pass was more at UT. If he doesn’t tear his ACL or was a couple years younger, he doesn’t drop below the 2nd round.

Hyatt- Blintinkof Award winner. Had 15 TD’s this year alone, and had 4 TD’s previous two years.

Tillman- 1497 yds his junior and senior season combined with 15 TD’s. Previous 2 years he had 127 yds, and 2 TD’s combined .

Players drafted:

2017-2021 drafts- 13 players drafted. Average round for palyers during this time is 4th round. 6 players drafted in the top 3 rounds.

2022-2023 drafts- 10 players drafted in half the time,3.5rd is average round for players drafted, 7 players drafted in the top 3 rounds.

I would say just looking off the draft classes, that Huepel has done more in half the amount of time as the last 3 coaches before him.

Now since this Douchenozzle wants to also talk about skill players being drafted, you can also look back at the prior year draft classes. But I will post it here so no one has to go digging. I’ll break down positions drafted under Huepel last 2 years and compare them to the last 4 years prior to him.


2017-2021 (4years)Drafts/position drafted:
WR- 3
QB- 1
RB- 2
OL- 1
DL- 3
LB- 1
DB- 2

2022-2023 (2years) Drafts(Heupel):
WR- 3
QB- 1
RB- 0
OL- 2
DL- 2
LB- 0
DB- 2

By time Hueple completes his 3rd year at UT, he will have had more players drafted in 3 years than the last 3 coaches combined. Tennessee did not have anyone drafted in 2015 or 2016 classes. Since 2008 UT has has had 5 or more players drafted in the same draft only 4 times. Huepel has 2 of those draft classes with at least 5 players.

This dude likes to sling **** at UT every chance he gets even when it’s absurdly false. He sees UT as a legit threat with the recruting Heuple is now doing and he is going to write anything he can to paint UT in a negative picture to help UGA with recruiting. Pay this dude no attention has he clearly does not know what he’s talking about when it comes to Huepels recruiting, and his offense. If this offense was so basic then why is it still effective. This type of offensive system was started by Art Briles, and Heupel has ran this type of offense at Oklahoma as OC, Missouri as OC, UCF, and now UT. There is plenty of tape on it and yet year after year Heupel has a top 10 offense every year. Again this dude is a biased reporter and UGA homer.
Click to expand...
Mic drop post above. Good job.
 
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#83
#83
BS. An elite DT or edge can shine in Heupel’s system. More time on field means more sack opportunities. While I agree that team defensive stats may suffer, individual stats can flourish. Do you think D. Barnett or R. White would have struggled in this system? No way! An elite mlb could lead the nation in tackles based on time on the field. This is just dribble in an attempt to negatively affect recruiting.
 
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#84
#84
VolPack22 said:
One could also say that with better talent you can run the system better with even more explosive plays 🤷‍♂️

Everyone is just scared that Tennessee is back. Georgia finally got to the mountaintop and they are threatened by us. They are going to say anything to diminish our program. And it’s funny they bring up the OL because we literally just had one drafted top 10 😂
Click to expand...

Sounds like nervous speak to me. Circling the wagons. I’ve done it before - I know what that crap looks like. More talent at every position means it’s executed more perfectly. And yes, a top 15 defense may not be achievable nor needed. If our yards per is adequate or top 15 that is what matters. Total yard skews for our opposition are inevitable when you average a minute per drive. They are just going to have a lot more plays.
 
#85
#85
tennesseekilt said:
First of all, I realize this is a Georgia media guy of some sort, so we have to automatically take what he says with a grain of salt for a lot of reasons. However, I'm also wondering if there is any sort of grain of truth to what he says. If the answer is 'no,' please explain your rationale with something besides a blanket dismissal or blind trust. My instinct is that he's wrong as well, but I want to know some solid reasons for why that's the case.

Here's a link to the first tweet (there are several). For those of you on the platform, probably worth looking at the responses and some of his answers to those.



And for those of you who don't Twitter, here is what he says:

The ironic part of Tennessee beginning to recruit well is that Tennessee is running a system that is designed to dramatically lessen the need for talent at OT and QB… It’s a law of diminishing returns. Over time, Heupel will actually be minimizing the talent advantage he’s built

I see UT fans don’t understand…

Guess what guys? The best way to use blue-chips isn’t to run a offense with 4 patterns in the tree. There’s a reason nobody is running the old Baylor stuff anymore. If the Vols recruit 5* OL one day, Heupel’s system will hold back their potential

There is a reason that teams with elite lines aren’t hiring someone to run this offense for them. Good DL’s have shredded it for 20 yrs.

You don’t like hearing it, but if UT starts to recruit like an elite program you’ll soon find yourselves calling for changes in the scheme

There’s a lot of you going the “you don’t understand Heupel’s offense” route… I promise you I do. That’s why I picked UT to lose by 21 in Athens last fall
Click to expand...

Heupel seems to be recruiting pretty well. I guess this means that if he recruits better, he should br very difficult to beat. Looks like we may win a lot more games than those who pick winners need to realize that we will be difficult to beat. Bring on the the naysayers.
 
#86
#86
volroadwarrior said:
They are concerned or they wouldn't bother to mention anything. Not being able to have an elite defense is dumb. An elite defense will get you off the field fast if they stop the other team to 3 and out..
Click to expand...
Exactly. Just because the offense gets their job done in a hurry doesn’t mean the defense has to linger on the next series. Quick series both ways until the lead is big and then the offense can drag its feet.
 
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#90
#90
He is saying that regardless of better talent on offense we will score the same amount of points per game so it's a waste of talent. But what he fails to mention purposefully is that with improved talent we will then score 40+ on his Dawgs. Second point. Defense what we can sell to recruits is playing time because this Coach truly will play a 2 deep if he has the players they can trust. It's coming GA your time will soon end. In CHRIST Alone
 
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#92
#92
Time will tell if the offensive players we send to the NFL are underdeveloped products of the system, and not ready for Sundays.

If you want to know whether this system offers a dead end in QB development, ask Peyton (who would only answer off the record, I'm sure). In his era we ran a pro-style offense. He absorbed everything he could from it, and arrived in Indy maybe the best prepared rookie ever.

But on the other hand, going back to the '60s, there were teams running triple option run offenses in college who sent QBs on to successful careers in the NFL. Talent is talent. And besides, the NFL's offenses are always evolving, too.

Recruiting rivals are going to level this charge until its logic (and while unproven, his accusation is logical, preceding posts notwithstanding) is countered by fact. We'll have to put up with it for another 4-6 years, until we hear GMs and pro scouts saying otherwise.

For now, let's see if Darnell, Jalin, and Cedric struggle with technique, or get mentally overwhelmed by the NFL game. That won't prove anything one way or another, but it will become part of the recruiting narrative for someone.
 
Last edited:
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#93
#93
these guys writing crap hoping these kids read and believe this stuff and decide not to commit to Tenn.
 
#95
#95
Great post and discussion.
As far as my $.02 to question posed, I’d recommend OP take a look at Malcolm Gladwell’s “David and Goliath” book where he tells the story of a high school girl’s basketball team in California who almost won the championship despite having team “much less talented” than their competition…. by playing the game to their strengths vice their opponents strengths.

Basically, the lesson is this - don’t try to win the game by trying to ignore the differences in talent between teams (such as Bama and now UGA) when it comes to being on the court (or field). Those who have the talent to win the game will do so if you play the game the way they want you to. They certainly get PO’d when you implement a scheme that isn’t what they have worked very hard to exploit or disrupt.

Our Coach and staff are tweaking a team built and trained to exploit mismatches and tempo to level the “talent gap” we (and frankly a lot of other SEC programs) have endured
for the last decade. Change is hard… I’m hoping our team will stick the “gimmicky” approach straight through the beating heart of those bulldogs and their pompous fans this year.

Take heart VOLNATION, our program is getting back on track to where we’ve wanted to get back to… winning games and hopefully soon winning another Championship.
Go VOLS!
 
#97
#97
tennesseekilt said:
First of all, I realize this is a Georgia media guy of some sort, so we have to automatically take what he says with a grain of salt for a lot of reasons. However, I'm also wondering if there is any sort of grain of truth to what he says. If the answer is 'no,' please explain your rationale with something besides a blanket dismissal or blind trust. My instinct is that he's wrong as well, but I want to know some solid reasons for why that's the case.

Here's a link to the first tweet (there are several). For those of you on the platform, probably worth looking at the responses and some of his answers to those.



And for those of you who don't Twitter, here is what he says:

The ironic part of Tennessee beginning to recruit well is that Tennessee is running a system that is designed to dramatically lessen the need for talent at OT and QB… It’s a law of diminishing returns. Over time, Heupel will actually be minimizing the talent advantage he’s built

I see UT fans don’t understand…

Guess what guys? The best way to use blue-chips isn’t to run a offense with 4 patterns in the tree. There’s a reason nobody is running the old Baylor stuff anymore. If the Vols recruit 5* OL one day, Heupel’s system will hold back their potential

There is a reason that teams with elite lines aren’t hiring someone to run this offense for them. Good DL’s have shredded it for 20 yrs.

You don’t like hearing it, but if UT starts to recruit like an elite program you’ll soon find yourselves calling for changes in the scheme

There’s a lot of you going the “you don’t understand Heupel’s offense” route… I promise you I do. That’s why I picked UT to lose by 21 in Athens last fall
Click to expand...

What backwards a$$ thinking I’d this? Blasphemy!
 
#98
#98
He knows what’s coming. The Vols are living rent free in the Dawgs’ heads. They’re concerned because they know they won’t win it all again this year and that the Vols are just one of the teams that could end their streak. This guy is just whipping up his base.
 
#99
#99
OrangeBeachVol said:
IMO, I think he is claiming that Hyp's offense is a gimmick and the NFL does not run a offense like this so elite QB's and OL are not inclined to come to TN to play in this system. OL have to be great at pass protection in this system which is a must for the NFL. And if he thinks putting up big passing numbers does not get the NFL's attention he is full of crap.

This past NFL draft has already debunked his article.
Click to expand...
That dawg homer doesn't understand that we are a running football team. It opens up the passing game.
 
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