Recruiting Football Talk VII

[SugarCC]

Anybody have the picture of Squirrel White being rode like a show pony in the endzone, end of the game?

 

[Orange.]

Would that have been Chris Fowler???

That is correct iirc, and I've read here that he later apologized for the remark, whether he did idk. Or maybe it was one those classic espn "apologies" like baseball two years ago, when they have someone make a false accusation against Tennessee (steroids) when every college baseball fan in America is watching, and then make the apology at 3 a.m. or something when there is little viewership; and then the media considers the story of the defamation concluded without further comment.

Speaking of which, I saw here during the game last week that long-time self-appointed hater D Wolken tweeted during the first half (when it was already vividly clear, but not yet at world-historic levels) that the officials were ripping off the Vols.

When you've cheated Tennessee so spectactularly that you've lost Wolken...

 

[Orange.]

I don’t know what happened. I just don’t find some great gulf of difference between corruption or extreme incompetence like some people do. They’re both awful for the game.

Incompetence would be randomly making and missing calls. It would never result in the manifest pattern that we saw Saturday and that has characterized the entire "Saban era," which simply means "the era of recruiting and game and schedule rigging" for Saban's benefit. Or the creation of a false narrative about Saban's true "legacy." Incompetence would result in games outcomes turned against Bama by accident several times. Has never happened.

Secondly, it ignores the fact that the SEC Office in charge of officiating and their officials are extremely competent at rigging game outcomes, which is their manifest intention. They do exactly what they intend to do. That's competence.

 

[Jimmy Football]

To @rikberry31 (because I can’t quote your post): I understand the distinction, but I don’t see much of a difference, ultimately.

Whether a doctor botches your surgery because he was grossly incompetent or someone paid him off, you’re dead either way due to someone else’s malfeasance.

And also, if the SEC continues to knowingly employ incompetent officials and make no effort to improve that element of the game, that’s just corruption of a different kind.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Incompetence would be randomly making and missing calls. It would never result in the manifest pattern that we saw Saturday and that has characterized the entire "Saban era," which simply means the era of recruiting and game rigging.

Secondly, it ignores the fact that the SEC Office in charge of officiating and their officials are extremely competent at rigging games, which is their manifest intention. They do what they intend to do. That's competence.

You keep missing my point on this. A common defense of this garbage is: “They’re not putting their feet on the scales, they’re just really bad at their jobs!” But even if that’s true, it’s just as bad for the reasons I keep bringing up.

 

[drylo]

There is no defending SEC officials. Period. I can’t believe that this even has to be stated in this thread.

 

[TN-POSSUM]

This is pretty nice work by yall. You should plaster this all over twitter with the same explanations and try to get it trending. I thought I remembered we were setting up to call our play and start the series, when all of a sudden the ball leaves the 24 and then Bama starts going crazy that the ball is being marked near the goal line. Those pics are corruption at its finest.

I don't Twitter but it was something I needed to see again. I watched the replay last night and tried to justify the noncalls for alabama and the calls against us. There were some 1st half calls that could have been called/ not called. (Alabama should have been called for 2 different pass interference/ defensive holding calls on 2 different drives. The ones that resulted in FGs.) What really got my attention, was that last minute of the 1st half (not stopping the clock) and the 1st minute of the 2nd half.

CBS Sports is replaying the game again tomorrow at 1:00 PM (IIRC). Listen to Gary Danielson "sell the call", pay attention to camera angles and time spent showing the replays, and what the referrees are looking at and listening for. Tell me I'm wrong

 

[drylo]

To @rikberry31 (because I can’t quote your post): I understand the distinction, but I don’t see much of a difference, ultimately.

Whether a doctor botches your surgery because he was grossly incompetent or someone paid him off, you’re dead either way due to someone else’s malfeasance.

And also, if the SEC continues to knowingly employ incompetent officials and make no effort to improve that element of the game, that’s just corruption of a different kind.

If it’s not corrupt, what is it? Just the most elaborate troll job ever?

 

[InVOLuntary]

I believe it's all about the money - getting one or two teams into the playoffs. Apparently $$$ generated by LSU in 2019 and Auburn in 2010 spend just as well as GA and Bama $$$ in other years.

I think Tennessee will be treated fairly when we don't crap the bed vs. lesser teams - SCjr last year and UF this year.

So you believe there's cheating, you just believe it's not targeted solely at Tennessee. So do you think they got together and said before the season and picked the two teams that they think give them the best shot to win and then pass it down to certain crews to implement?

 

[Ten_Titans]

To @rikberry31 (because I can’t quote your post): I understand the distinction, but I don’t see much of a difference, ultimately.

Whether a doctor botches your surgery because he was grossly incompetent or someone paid him off, you’re dead either way due to someone else’s malfeasance.

And also, if the SEC continues to knowingly employ incompetent officials and make no effort to improve that element of the game, that’s just corruption of a different kind.

You really don't see a difference between murder and medical malpractice? Really?

I can tell you the legal system and everyone else on the planet views those two things very differently, even if the end result is the same.

Comon'. Having terrible referees isn't in the same universe as having openly corrupt referees.

 

[drvenner]

This is wild.

Burn it tf down.

 

[Orange.]

To @rikberry31 (because I can’t quote your post): I understand the distinction, but I don’t see much of a difference, ultimately.

Whether a doctor botches your surgery because he was grossly incompetent or someone paid him off, you’re dead either way due to someone else’s malfeasance.

And also, if the SEC continues to knowingly employ incompetent officials and make no effort to improve that element of the game, that’s just corruption of a different kind.

McGill's point yesterday was good. Tennessee has long been robbed by officiating in gross and manifest ways. The facts make this abundantly clear to anyone who cares to examine them. There is a pattern.

One does not need a comprehensive "backstory" to make that claim with conclusive evidence. The people repeatedly asking for exact details about how and why this is orchestrated behind the scenes (where by definition details cannot be known) are throwing out a red herring that they (and gullible people who credit those questions as in any way decisive with regard to the facts) employ to discredit the set of facts that show beyond of a shadow of a doubt that Tennessee gets robbed and Bama profits from it. It happens to other teams too, as circumstances warrant, always in the direct of benefitting Bama. You don't need to know that ultimate reason to demonstrate what the facts demonstrate.

 

[drylo]

You really don't see a difference between murder and medical malpractice? Really?

I can tell you the legal system and everyone else on the planet views those two things very differently, even if the end result is the same.

Comon'. Having terrible referees isn't in the same universe as having openly corrupt referees.

It’s not that there’s no difference — it’s that neither is acceptable.

 

[GoBears]

I think they just called a terrible game. Plain and simple. Do you really think last years Bama team really committed 17 penalties for 130 yards and we only committed 6 for 39? Bad games happen. Did the refs miss? Oh yes. But are you part of the tinfoil hat wearers?

Think about it. So if you agree with the tinfoil hat wearers that there is this Bama/ref cabal against TN, then why did we have such a dominant first half? Why was Milton lighting Bamas defense up? So was this the plan? Did the refs meet with Saban and lay this out? Listen Nick, against TN we are gonna let TN pretty much dominate you in the first half. We are gonna let them build up a 20-7 lead and then in the second half we will start calling for you?

Is this what you think? Serious question.

Perhaps coincidence is in play with the officiating. Alabama averaging 9 penalties a game. This game they get one “penalty” for snap infraction that actually prevents a loose ball in the backfield. After being down at the half Bama scores a touchdown while Baron is choked rushing the passer. Ensuing kickoff the weirdest “fair catch” penalty is called moving the ball to the 4 yard line. A lot of coincidences.

 

[OrangeMoundTNVol]

Pope and other coaches gotta start teaching these kids to sell those penalties. I’ve noticed when we are held or grabbed while the ball is in the air no one ever even looks at the ref and b!tch about it. Sometimes you can sell those holds and make him throw a late flag, watch it happens against us all the time.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Pope and other coaches gotta start teaching these kids to sell those penalties. I’ve noticed when we are held or grabbed while the ball is in the air no one ever even looks at the ref and b!tch about it. Sometimes you can sell those holds and make him throw a late flag, watch it happens against us all the time.

Baron tries to when he's held but he gets ignored. He usually throws his arms up in the air.

 

[Orange.]

You keep missing my point on this. A common defense of this garbage is: “They’re not putting their feet on the scales, they’re just really bad at their jobs!” But even if that’s true, it’s just as bad for the reasons I keep bringing up.

That is what I liked!

My point is that you can go further and show that all the facts themselves (regardless of backstory, which is unnecessary) show a clear pattern. Name all the games where officiating determined game outcomes against Saban. Now name all the games where we were screwed (in games against a multitude of teams), which can be determined by the calls and no-calls themselves and their contexts without reference to any backstory (including the backstory of "incompetence").

I consider the "incompetence" story to be an unwarranted excuse. But as you say, the fact that the league has never corrected incompetence from the first day of the Saban era (this is not an impertinent starting point) is itself putting players at risk and would be a form of manifest corruption. Unless that too is incompetence (in which case leadership needs to go and most everyone there needs to be relieved of their duties which exceed their competence.

OTOH so long as the Office likes or does not mind the results, there would be no reason to change the (wrongly imo) "incompetence." We don't have to know who said what to whom behind closed doors to ascertain that. Picking at backstories is a canard. And a tactic of those who in effect endorse the status quo.

It is important to point out as well that this terrible officiating endangers the safety of student athletes on a regular basis.

 

[mrMet]

Perhaps coincidence is in play with the officiating. Alabama averaging 9 penalties a game. This game they get one “penalty” for snap infraction that actually prevents a loose ball in the backfield. After being down at the half Bama scores a touchdown while Baron is choked rushing the passer. Ensuing kickoff the weirdest “fair catch” penalty is called moving the ball to the 4 yard line. A lot of coincidences.

No such thing as coincidence in any part of life

 

[Jimmy Football]

You really don't see a difference between murder and medical malpractice? Really?

The dead guy doesn’t.

And sure, if we’re talking about holding individual referees accountable, it makes a huge difference. It’s being fired versus doing jail time.

But if the SEC is letting the competitive integrity of its league degrade, it doesn’t really matter to me whether it’s due to corruption or gross negligence. The result is the crap we got on Saturday.

 

[OrangeMoundTNVol]

Baron tries to when he's held but he gets ignored. He usually throws his arms up in the air.

Yea he does, Roman Harrison just takes it and never even looks at the ref

 

[Orange.]

Someone early this morning wondered why the Birmingham Alabama office went absolutely ballistic at what happened at our rigged game against Ole Miss, yet is relatively mute in subsequent cases (even if they sometimes assess a penalty.)

I think it is very clear that the event in Knoxville was a clear and completely justified protest of rigged officiating. Not only the spot, but the bizarrely TD taken off the board, and other calls. The fans seeing exactly what was happening with respect to outcome-altering officiating (regardless of backstory) hit too close the bone, and got a visceral response. Because it was true.

 

[SpringBokVol]

WOW

If this doesn't 100% prove the refs where looking to flag Tennessee for things then I don't know what does... You have to be focused on calling a penalty to see that and then call it.

 

[Orange.]

If this doesn't 100% prove the refs where looking to flag Tennessee for things then I don't know what does... You have to be focused on calling a penalty to see that and then call it.

Did anyone ever find the flag in the video?

We know that bizarrely the play was whistled dead, not at the time of the infraction, and not after the play, but immediately before Bama made contact with Seldon. Which is weird timing. That whistle also means that there were flagrant personal fouls on Bama after the play was dead -- even before the Bama guy assaulted one of our players after Seldon was down and surrounded by a bevy of red shirts who had left the sideline to surround him and glare down at him.

And we see an official listening to someone on the radio instructing him when none of the other officials appear to know the ball is to be re-spotted on the flimsiest of grounds. One official readies the spot near the 25 for play and signals first down. Milton afterward sees the official who listening to his radio for a long time, taking the ball, and walking past our huddle toward the endzone. That appears to be the first (strictly circumstantial) evidence the team has that something is happening. They typically call representatives of the two teams to explain a penalty. It looks like an official moves to the sideline to inform Heup at after the official listening to his radio has said something. Which is weird timing so long after the whistle.

And Telander's action, who they blamed to Heupel, had happened after the ball passed over his head with no reaction at all by anyone on Bama's coverage team.

The announcers didn't say anything about it until afterward, when one of them blurts out "I saw it," and then describes the wrong cause of the alleged penalty in greatly overwrought terms. He made Dee out as working a scheme. I think someone at the network got in the announcers earpiece telling him (wrongly) what happened and what to explain and then they cued up the video, which made the call look ridiculous. Or why did the announcer wait so long to say what he "saw"?

The video review itself was not long enough to determine anything, at least judging by what the game video shows, unless it was determined upstairs or remotely by the (non officiating) SEC representative, who apparently participates in all replay discussions, and the official looking at the replay camera was simply being inform what had already been decided and no film review was necessary. Does SEC participant who is not one of the officials have veto power?

Did the story change from Dee to Telander as the offending party at some point after the whistle? Or how did that go? Was it the official in the endzone who saw Telander on the front line?

Everything about it was weird.

 

[UTfan94]

The head coach should be in the ear of the officials all night! He should advocate for his team to receive fair treatment.

 

[Jimmy Football]

touché

As I have noted, the "backstory" maneuver you are being asked to respond to is a canard and tactic of those who would deny by insinuation and distraction the absolutely irrefutable appraisal of facts pertaining to officiating, its beneficiaries and victims.

Maybe, and I have my theories on the motives behind this stuff, but ultimately it just doesn’t matter to me. We’ve gotten a bad whistle in basically all of our games except maybe one or two, an indisputably and particularly bad whistle. It shouldn’t be tolerated by our administration or any of the others in this league on the wrong side of it, regardless of the cause.