Recruiting Football Talk VII

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What are you talking about? Specifically the bold.
We don't have the momentum that UGA, LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio St, Michigan, and Oregon have. Those teams will continue to have an upper hand in recruiting and portal activity just based on what they've done on the field. Below that is a congealed mass of of rapid dynamism. There's more space in the minds of these players that separates us from Oregon than it does from South Carolina and Arkansas.
 
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UT is allocating resources at a "win now" level. Football should not take a step back next year-- not with the resources invested in this program. The expectation is to compete for championships, and that is the goal every year. Sooner or later, investment and results will have to sync. I'd go with sooner.
Don’t tell @Orange_Crush that. Like I have been saying.
 
Why didn't they just go big instead of hiring Napier if that's their way of doing things?
He was a big hire at the time. Doesn’t always work out. We even wanted to interview him.

But they will keep looking until they get it right. They don’t settle for less than winning and fire coaches quicker than we do.
 
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While 8-9 wins every year shouldn’t be the goal I don’t think it would do us any good to let rumors of firings and coaching searches fire up after year 4 or even 5 if we do go 9-3. Especially considering we are just a few years removed from 4-8, 5-7 etc. we needed stability and to build back a solid program. Eventually we do need to take that leap but next year will have a lot of unknowns, Nico has no experience although I think he can be elite we just don’t know. Defense has to be addressed. Our 3rd down defense alone cost us a lot this year in some games.
I don’t think anyone is discussing firing Heupel. It’s saying UT is investing a lot into football and wants to win now. It’s year four and we should be competing for titles and not accepting 8 wins as ok now. If you win 8 again, then that’s not competing for titles and changes should be made.

What changes is up to Heupel and the admin. But typically that’s more money into recruiting, portal, better coaches, etc.
 
What is the end goal then when we propose not settling etc?
At some point that is, but you we aren't at that point. Waste Nico with two nine win seasons and the conversation starts. The record does to 7 wins and there should be a conversation.

I think regardless Heup needs 5 years, every coach should get 1 full recruiting cycle unless they're Dooley bad.
 
What? Lol

Didn’t say that at all.

Can’t even continue with you if you think you are making valid points.
I'm convinced that I'm making valid points, and I'm convinced that's what you said, whether you want to stand behind it now that it's been called out, or not.

You've stated that we need to act like who were 20 years ago, no matter the fact that we are not who we were twenty years ago. When called on it, you used TX as an example that since they could apparently find success, we should be able to in that same way--all without comparing the state they were in, or the way they found success.

So, the lazy thing to do is "can't even continue with you", as the work would be to refute and defend.
 
While 8-9 wins every year shouldn’t be the goal I don’t think it would do us any good to let rumors of firings and coaching searches fire up after year 4 or even 5 if we do go 9-3. Especially considering we are just a few years removed from 4-8, 5-7 etc. we needed stability and to build back a solid program. Eventually we do need to take that leap but next year will have a lot of unknowns, Nico has no experience although I think he can be elite we just don’t know. Defense has to be addressed. Our 3rd down defense alone cost us a lot this year in some games.
IDT anybody at UT is thinking about a coaching change at all. That's an online thing that arises from nothing and goes nowhere. What UT IS thinking is make the changes needed to get to where we want to be and let us know what you need to do it.

Nico improves every time he plays. So play him and watch him continue to improve.
 
At some point that is, but you we aren't at that point. Waste Nico with two nine win seasons and the conversation starts. The record does to 7 wins and there should be a conversation.

I think regardless Heup needs 5 years, every coach should get 1 full recruiting cycle unless they're Dooley bad.
I don't think that holds true anymore with the state of modern college football. Not saying you should fire a coach every 2-3 years but recruiting classes aren't going to stay together for 4 years.
 
IDT anybody at UT is thinking about a coaching change at all. That's an online thing that arises from nothing and goes nowhere. What UT IS thinking is make the changes needed to get to where we want to be and let us know what you need to do it.

Nico improves every time he plays. So play him and watch him continue to improve.
Is Joe still playing the bowl game?
 
OK, so when will they win big under this model? Moreso, when will they get the program to a level of consistent success?

View attachment 601647

From the looks of your example, they get impatient after initially positive results, bail/fire at the sniff of struggles, and start over. Has this gotten them to where they used to be? By 'acting like what they are..." ...er, were? Their current state looks little like Meyer or Spurrier.

The point is that your example doesn't support your proposed solution.

You were very close to reality when you mentioned in a previous post, something to the effect that "or else we'll become known as a program where someone can't win". The fact of the matter is that we've come very close to (or have been) that already. And we got there with defective administration that were using your very solution. "Act like what we..." er... WERE! Hire and fire in a panicked cycle. There comes the day when you are NOT what you once were. You become the school known that recruits see as a loser. You become the admin known to prospective coaches as the place where you go to be fired, and where your career dies.

And when you're there, it's impossible to operate as though you are what you once were. Once there, it's just that much more important to have great administration, with a great coach, with long-term joint plans and appropriate patience along with measurable results over time. And once you're there, it's asinine to define the measurable results by "By God, twenty years ago, when the SEC was so much weaker, our records were..."
I’m glad you are not apart of our administrative and have these loser thoughts. This University spends top ten on football between coaches, recruiting, facilities, etc. and expects to compete for titles now.

We are not a bad program because we had a bad decade plus. It was a poorly run company essentially and we made the right CEO hire to right the ship and get us back to glory.

I hope you never run a company and have a few bad years and say well, this is what we are now. Let’s keep up the losses and accept mediocrity. We can’t work harder or expect better results because we don’t want to change .
 
UT is allocating resources at a "win now" level. Football should not take a step back next year-- not with the resources invested in this program. The expectation is to compete for championships, and that is the goal every year. Sooner or later, investment and results will have to sync. I'd go with sooner.
Offensive Line returning is HUGE, biggest recruiting haul of the off season. Gotta clean up in the portal at some key positions now
 
Then all "win now" levels and goals are not the same. UT is paying marquee coaches Top 10 salaries, slightly below Bama and UGA and more than some playoff teams. UT's football recruiting budget is Top 5. UGA and Bama outspend UT but not by much. I'm sure UT feels it is paying for good decision making-- and expects to get it, along with results.

I'm not really a Women's Basketball Fan so I'm not going down that road. TN might be the best school in the country if you combine the 4 other main sports: Football, Men's Basketball, Baseball, and Softball.
 
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What is the end goal then when we propose not settling etc?
Seeing changes if goals aren’t being met. Love Heup but even he needs to adapt. You can’t always hire within or not go above and beyond for some players. It can be the difference between 9 and 11 wins.

So if you are on a path of 8-9 wins on average, something has to change in order to get over the hurdle. Coaching changes, recruiting changes, etc.
 
I don’t think anyone is discussing firing Heupel. It’s saying UT is investing a lot into football and wants to win now. It’s year four and we should be competing for titles and not accepting 8 wins as ok now. If you win 8 again, then that’s not competing for titles and changes should be made.

What changes is up to Heupel and the admin. But typically that’s more money into recruiting, portal, better coaches, etc.
Are they investing a lot? They might be investing more than they used to. But recruiting isn't better than it used to be, we seem to always be second best in the portal, and it feels like nothing is about to be done with the weak link on the coaching staff.
 
Didn’t say that. Again something else you are saying that I did not. I’m saying florida won’t stop until they get it right.
Sigh...

You're using UF as an example of your desired process. The uncomfortable fact is that that example has not led to sustained success.

Seriously. What about that do you not get?

Now, to defend, you could claim that you didn't intend to use UF as the example for your argument, and I could ask, "Huh?" or you could claim that that example shows that your desired process has created success and the level of wins you want, and I could say, "Huh?"

Your entire spiel has been that we need to act like who we once were, and not settle. To defend it, you pointed out how UF has kept firing coaches in search of success. You even pointed out that they are currently in a losing state that's firing their coach. If it wasn't an example that your desired process will work, then... You just wanted to randomly use an example that seems to contradict your argument?
 
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You've worsened your fallacy. You've moved from "we should be what we used to be" (with no analysis of the differences between the two and what needs to be done with current resources to get there), to "we should be what TX has been" (with no analysis of the differences between the situation of the two).

You can't escape the fact that expectations should be based on what the program is dealing with *right now* (i.e. current rosters, handicaps, etc), as opposed to the level of success you used to be used to, and most especially as opposed to *completely different teams*!

This should be critical thinking 101.
Unfortunately, Tennessee in the current SEC format would not be considered a sure fire Top-5 job. (Alabama, Georgia, Texas) from there, recruiting/resources (Auburn, Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, Tennessee, A&M) We are at best fringe Top-5. So to exceed the 8-4/9-3 mark we will have to overachieve in relation to the schools we play. If all of the schools listed above, including us, are healthy. That is going to make 10-11 regular season wins difficult at almost every school. Everyone makes stupid money to be a Head Coach now, so just throwing $70million at a guy won’t cause any of the top names to blink. You have to have money, and then some.

*Not looking to fire CJH lol.
 
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I’m glad you are not apart of our administrative and have these loser thoughts. This University spends top ten on football between coaches, recruiting, facilities, etc. and expects to compete for titles now.

We are lot a bad program because we had a bad decade plus. It was a poorly run company essentially and we made the right CEO hire to right the ship and get us back to glory.

I hope you never run a company and have a few bad years and say well, this is what we are now. Let’s keep up the losses and accept mediocrity. We can’t work harder or expect better results because we don’t want to change .
I'll believe we expect to win titles in football when its January and Willie Martinez no longer works for UT.
 
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