Recruiting Football Talk VII

[Jackcrevol]

What side of concrete are you on? Finishing or ready mix?

The grass side, mostly. But sometimes on the asphalt side.

 

[MarcoVol]

HA!

 

[csprig9]

HA!

Lol
Nic roush, Matt’s buddy said it’s done

 

[LA Vol]

NCAA is facing a hydra-- many heads and they'll keep coming.

UTK has not sued anybody. Spyre hasn't sued anybody.

This case was filed by the State of Tennessee and the Commonwealth of Virginia. But UT, players, boosters, collectives and other universities are all out there, waiting. The stakes are high, and there are many attorneys ready to make it rain. Your move, NCAA.

 

[InVOLuntary]

February 2, 1959 - The Dyatlov Pass Incident

Watch the documentary if you have not

Nine Russian hikers were killed on the night of February 2nd while trekking in the Ural Mountains. The Soviet government originally attributed a “compelling natural force” as the cause.

They had planned to send a message back to their sports club about three weeks after taking off; so when the club didn’t hear from them by February 20, a search party set out to find the hikers.

Over the next couple of weeks, the search party found the first five of the hiker’s bodies spread out over the snow. They were in various states of dress and had bizarre injuries, with one appearing to have bitten off part of his own knuckle.

Months later, after some snow melt, investigators discovered the bodies of the remaining four hikers. They had even more inexplicable injuries. One had a fractured skull, another had a twisted neck, two were missing their eyes and one of the bodies with no eyes was also missing her tongue.

The gruesome fate of the nine hikers has generated theories ranging from natural disasters to secret weapons testing to an attack by yetis. Although some theories are more plausible than others, the “Dyatlov Pass incident,” as it is known, remains a contentious and unsolved mystery.

View attachment 616919

View attachment 616920



Photos are of one tent that was cut from the inside and the other was taken of a mysterious figure by one of the hikers.

@Weezer did it.

 

[jakez4ut]

Okay so I have got some clarifications for anyone interested. I spoke to a few NIL lawyers online today and I got some of their insight.

Basically in Alston V NCAA the case that made NIL legal the supreme court found the NCAA in violation of the Sherman anti trust act.

Our legal cases are built off of that same foundation but we are going a step further in saying simply interfering with NIL is enough to violate the Sherman anti trust act.

to that effect Tennessee has given the federal court responsible for the eastern district of Tennessee until feb 6th to issue a TRO. (temporary restraining order) if the eastern district court grants that the NCAA loses its power to touch us or any nil enforcement for 10 days and during that time we will seek an injunction which would make that time period much longer.

In terms of the outcome if we are granted the TRO that means we are very likely to win the injunction and the whole case against the NCAA.

if we are not granted the TRO it isn't over but it means out odds are not very good on this particular case.

A few NIL lawyers I have spoken to think we will likely win the case and a few more have said we stand on shaky untested ground. and even though the NCAA has had some high profile legal losses recently they where able to win a case about amateurism against a few football players that played in a small paid league but then tried to enter NCAA as student athletes. So this could shape out either way. in the supreme court Kavanaugh went a step further against the NCAA in his concurring opinion which will help us but that was only 1 of the justices not all 9 felt that way. so just be aware its far from over or a slam dunk

I personally believe we will win this case but I do not have a legal background. I just want people to be aware that there is not a consensus that we win or lose this.

I will say however this has a much higher chance of working than most anti trust cases because of the way the NCAA is structured and how it already was ruled in violation of the Sherman anti trust act in Alston v NCAA. so if you see a low success rate with anti trust suits just know ours is better than average.

the crux of the issue we are making is that the NCAA is saying, yes, you can have NIL, but you are not eligible for NIL until you've signed, and then you can explore your NIL options......the goal being that NIL is not part of the recruiting process and not an inducement to go to this school or that. it'd be like telling someone that's interviewing for a job that you can't talk about your salary utnil after you've accepted the offer to work there. that your entire decision making process of what job to take can't have any discussions about compensation, so the playing field is level for all suitors. it's a completely ridiculous notion, because recruiting, inherently, is all about inducements...the whole point is to SELL potential recruits on all the reasons they should choose your school over other schools.

anyway, which is why the language used in Nico's NIL is so important. by the letter, that contract is valid regardless of where he went to school, his deal was his deal, regardless of the zip code. that he went to TN....SWEET. but not a requirement. now you can believe whatever you want about what "really" happened, but the words on the paper that every one signed support the notion that this was not an inducement for TN, rather a just deal for the rights to Nico's NIL opportunities.

further complicating the matter, the state of CA allows it's HS athletes to sign NIL before enrolling, so throw that in to the mix, and you explain why he was able to sign an NIL deal before enrolling. so which takes precendence...? that's the decision the courts are going to have to make. and so far in other cases, it hasn't necessarily worked out for the 'AA.

the NCAA has a lot to overcome, because to me, it sounds like the bulk of their argument is "well, you should have known better".

 

[Orange_Crush]

I suspect there will be future cases on actual pay, and if the SCOTUS opinions from the last case are indication, Kavanaugh indicated that pay-for-play would receive the same treatment as educational benefits on similar principles.

I hate quoting me...

And this is why I think the NCAA was dead quiet on NIL for so long, and what got us into this situation. They were terrified of doing ANYTHING per NIL, so asked Congress and states to work it out.

I am at a loss for what makes them so bold now. Nothing has changed per their weak standing on NIL. The only thing that has changed has been that they've become weaker due to their inaction and lack of leadership.

The only thing I can come up with per their current scorched earth policy from a weakened position, is that the NCAA infractions/enforcement has realized that they're useless and powerless in the current legal world, so this is their last ditch effort to bluff their own existence. Kind of like a bully that gets a bloody nose and everyone laughs at them. They scream and threaten because it's the only thing they know.

I suspect they said internally, "This last ditch may kill us, but we have to do it because if we don't, we're dead already."

That's the only thing I can come up with, it is so absurd.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

If we have the SEC backing, we get away with it. And in this specific case, UT has groundswell of support.

When it comes to the major conferences, the NCAA is like an abusive husband whose spouse has been in counseling and found some self-worth. They're scared to death of losing them.

IMO--All of this conference realignment and growth has had one major goal in mind--separate from the 'AA and take their place.

I have the perfect movie scene, but can’t find it.

In Sleeping With the Enemy when her abusive husband finds her and she calls 911 and says “I just killed an intruder in my house. “

Maybe, just maybe the ncaa should pay attention to the outcome of that scene. They just picked the wrong damn house.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Couldn't the argument be made that UT has been damaged due to the perception created by leaking the upcoming NOA?

Damage to the brand, to our recruiting efforts (which I believe was the intended consequence to begin with)?

If the NCAA had announced that they were investigating Tennessee, sure. That's probably why they leaked it through their minions.

 

[Tennessee Golfer]

For any guys in the Knoxville area there is a men’s conference tonight and tomorrow morning at First Baptist Concord in Farragut. Mark Richt, Bru, Sampson, and McGrath are speaking tonight and John Smoltz is speaking tomorrow morning. It starts at 6:30. Here is a link for the info www.865men.com

 

[InVOLuntary]

I don't understand that argument, especially from an attorney that should make this distinction. (Then again, I may be the one who's wrong...)

The TN/VA AG suit is not defending UT. It is suing NCAA for breaking NIL law. As such, UT would not be the damaged party. All student athletes would be the damaged parties, and showing a constrained market to negotiate their NILs is damage enough.

What am I missing?

Per UT's investigation (no case/suit), if TN/VA lost their suit and the NCAA then tried to hammer UT with sanctions, then UT fights it in real court with damages established.

But the NCAA hasn't done any of that, officially. It's all just a leaked story from a reporter.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Wouldnt showing receipts from our last investigation show harm? What about hours & flight time, hotels in Cincinatti?

How about an $8 million dollar fine?

How about scholarship reductions? We could have JH and staff give witness testimony if how their snooping has made their jobs exponentially harder.

So much of this is public perception. As DDFME said may lose. But who cares? Cancel our offseason. This is bigger than that. Tennessee set the standard with Spyre, and Vol Club. We set standard for doing it the right way, to tune of millions of dollars spent.

NCAA isnt a punitive, law enforcement agency. They are to support their member institutions. Really boils down to believing they have this much executive power.

In short, they need a rap on the beard.

All.that stuff were violations that we freely admitted to. Made our bed so to speak.

 

[UTSuave’]

NCAA is facing a hydra-- many heads and they'll keep coming.

UTK has not sued anybody. Spyre hasn't sued anybody.

This case was filed by the State of Tennessee and the Commonwealth of Virginia. But UT, players, boosters, collectives and other universities are all out there, waiting. The stakes are high, and there are many attorneys ready to make it rain. Your move, NCAA.

 

[DD4ME]

Meanwhile at Bama

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

You guys need to relax. As long as NIL dollars flow and we do it the right way the worst they can do is limit scholarships and post season ban. That is bad, but today you can buy past everything but the post season ban. Kids are going to see who has their back in all of this and many will still want to be on our side.

Contribute to the collective if you can and enjoy the show.

What the hell are you telling me to relax for?...what I said is the absolute truth....IF...we lose this fight, we are going to get destroyed.

That is the truth...just because nobody wants to hear it, doesn't make it any less true.

We have no choice...the NCAA backed us into a corner, so we have to fight this out now because we are screwed whether we fight or not..but...there is a possibility that this doesn't go the way we think and hope it does...but we have to fight this out now because the only way for us to not be destroyed is to fight and win.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

I hope so…..I really hope it’s not the opposite.
The NCAA isn’t going to just roll over.

The more I think about this, UT/Tennessee is going to need full support from a lot of other institutions/states.

It’s unfortunately not always who’s right that wins in court. We’ve seen that too many times.

The attorney general of Tennessee should contact the attorney general for Texas, Mississippi Missouri, Louisiana , Oklahoma, Ohio, Michigan and any other state where schools have a strong NIL collective. It’s time to draw a line in the sand.

The ncaa will need to clarify their NIL rules and to grandfather everyone prior to the start date of the reasonable rules or they will be caught up in battles that they can’t hope to win. Much to their detriment.

I’m not an attorney, but with the movies, book and TV series about attorneys, I think I could blow apart any argument that the ncaa tried to bring to court…
Definitely not trying to insult my legal VN family.

I just think the ncaa stance is tenuous at best and they have not realized that they are standing in quicksand…

 

[Orange_Crush]

But the NCAA hasn't done any of that, officially. It's all just a leaked story from a reporter.

Clarify? Hasn't done any what?

My point about UT/NCAA was a hypothetical if/then.

 

[DD4ME]

NCAA is facing a hydra-- many heads and they'll keep coming.

UTK has not sued anybody. Spyre hasn't sued anybody.

This case was filed by the State of Tennessee and the Commonwealth of Virginia. But UT, players, boosters, collectives and other universities are all out there, waiting. The stakes are high, and there are many attorneys ready to make it rain. Your move, NCAA.

 

[Orange_Crush]

What the hell are you telling me to relax for?...what I said is the absolute truth....IF...we lose this fight, we are going to get destroyed.

That is the truth...just because nobody wants to hear it, doesn't make it any less true.

We have no choice...the NCAA backed us into a corner, so we have to fight this out now because we are screwed whether we fight or not..but...there is a possibility that this doesn't go the way we think and hope it does...but we have to fight this out now because the only way for us to not be destroyed is to fight and win.

Relax, man.






























J/K. I have and still agree with you. IF it gets to that point, we are toast. My previous analogy per the NCAA's ill advised actions: UT is a strong, wounded animal. Why would the weakened NCAA possibly want to corner us? They had to know there was no other outcome than this.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

We're already dead meat, and yet we live

"What is dead, may never die"

Game of Thrones Ironborn sea folk motto for those that don't know.

 

[Jackcrevol]

the crux of the issue we are making is that the NCAA is saying, yes, you can have NIL, but you are not eligible for NIL until you've signed, and then you can explore your NIL options......the goal being that NIL is not part of the recruiting process and not an inducement to go to this school or that. it'd be like telling someone that's interviewing for a job that you can't talk about your salary utnil after you've accepted the offer to work there. that your entire decision making process of what job to take can't have any discussions about compensation, so the playing field is level for all suitors. it's a completely ridiculous notion, because recruiting, inherently, is all about inducements...the whole point is to SELL potential recruits on all the reasons they should choose your school over other schools.

anyway, which is why the language used in Nico's NIL is so important. by the letter, that contract is valid regardless of where he went to school, his deal was his deal, regardless of the zip code. that he went to TN....SWEET. but not a requirement. now you can believe whatever you want about what "really" happened, but the words on the paper that every one signed support the notion that this was not an inducement for TN, rather a just deal for the rights to Nico's NIL opportunities.

further complicating the matter, the state of CA allows it's HS athletes to sign NIL before enrolling, so throw that in to the mix, and you explain why he was able to sign an NIL deal before enrolling. so which takes precendence...? that's the decision the courts are going to have to make. and so far in other cases, it hasn't necessarily worked out for the 'AA.

the NCAA has a lot to overcome, because to me, it sounds like the bulk of their argument is "well, you should have known better".

I believe, the Courts will follow precedents they set.

NCAA is governing body, and leader. Effective leadership would have a finger on pulse of its members. NIL was coming. Everyone knew it. Lack of action, or legislation. Failure to act, resulting in scrambling to understand, comprehend, and really have a grasp on what the rules were. Lent to everyone having multiple lawyers having to specialize in this new, changing thing called NIL.

They didnt act. So, we did. State's did. Shifting sands. Everyday its different.

Ok, so, the NCAA is falling back to 'you should have known.'

1- We had attorneys. We worked with you. WE CALLED YOU!
2- You couldve told us this before.
3- We tried to call, you didnt answer. You said you wanted to work with us, but you dont.

Employees have a right to know what their salaries can or will be. Businesses cant keep all that information to themselves.

NCAA isnt a Government agency. It isnt a law enforcement agency. It is a business. It shouldnt have the power to overstep State Legislation. Further, the ambiguity of its laws, complexity of, and overall lack of ability to enforce, and enforce consistently across the board create an unfair environment for SA's.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

What the hell are you telling me to relax for?...what I said is the absolute truth....IF...we lose this fight, we are going to get destroyed.

That is the truth...just because nobody wants to hear it, doesn't make it any less true.

We have no choice...the NCAA backed us into a corner, so we have to fight this out now because we are screwed whether we fight or not..but...there is a possibility that this doesn't go the way we think and hope it does...but we have to fight this out now because the only way for us to not be destroyed is to fight and win.

This. How we’ve come out swinging, if anyone thinks we lose this that that means the NCAA is just going to slap a few penalties on us, is straight up laughable. We’ve called out their BS in the most public of ways and they aren’t going to take that likely. Hence, we need to all hope this goes our way, which most legal scholars I’ve read up on seem to think it will, so there’s hope! A new day is coming, and it’s lead by a bright orange sun!

 

[Jackcrevol]

All.that stuff were violations that we freely admitted to. Made our bed so to speak.

Which is punitive. Which we can show has caused us harm.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The attorney general of Tennessee should contact the attorney general for Texas, Mississippi Missouri, Louisiana , Oklahoma, Ohio, Michigan and any other state where schools have a strong NIL collective. It’s time to draw a line in the sand.

The ncaa will need to clarify their NIL rules and to grandfather everyone prior to the start date of the reasonable rules or they will be caught up in battles that they can’t hope to win. Much to their detriment.

I’m not an attorney, but with the movies, book and TV series about attorneys, I think I could blow apart any argument that the ncaa tried to bring to court…
Definitely not trying to insult my legal VN family.

I just think the ncaa stance is tenuous at best and they have not realized that they are standing in quicksand…

They also need to revert their definition of a "booster" away from automatic-inclusion of collectives. They are on dangerous ground, telling private, external corps how they can do business.

But all of that is beside the point. The cow is out of the barn now. the NCAA is about to get neutered with ANY rule pertaining to NIL, including inducement for recruiting.

 

[DD4ME]

What the hell are you telling me to relax for?...what I said is the absolute truth....IF...we lose this fight, we are going to get destroyed.

That is the truth...just because nobody wants to hear it, doesn't make it any less true.

We have no choice...the NCAA backed us into a corner, so we have to fight this out now because we are screwed whether we fight or not..but...there is a possibility that this doesn't go the way we think and hope it does...but we have to fight this out now because the only way for us to not be destroyed is to fight and win.

Is the threat real? Absolutely.

Who's the real threat? UT