Recruiting Football Talk VII

[drvenner]

Stephen King has a son named Joe.


I am not joking, but he surely is.

 

[Volsdeep4]

Residential flatwork, pickleball court market is nuts right now

Commercial footers, walls, flatwork, etc…

Trying to get into pouring tilt ups

Nice man! I’m in the concrete business (hauling to ready mix) so was just curious. That’s a very random fact about pickle ball haha

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I know our friend McGill has genuine concerns about our ultimate demise

No one has said this out loud, but imagine for one moment, if every UT athlete filed a class action against the NCAA for infringement on their rights if they did act....

Now imagine if every player in college sports files...that is what needs to happen now.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

Absolutely agree with ya............but let's not think Spyre isn't just UT.
An envelope push made in heaven

I hear what you are saying but antitrust laws are put in for a reason, and the ncaa has no provision on those so they have no authority…that is what the lawsuit is about and from a legal standpoint their regulation is in direct violation of that.

 

[peaygolf]

Stephen King has a son named Joe.


I am not joking, but he surely is.

I gave my grandson an apple yesterday. He said he wanted a pear....................













so I gave him another apple

 

[InVOLuntary]

He knows more about it than I do by miles but I’m a little confused on that. We dont have to show we’ve been damaged. UT isn’t actually in the lawsuit.. the state of Tennessee and Virginia is. Our potential allegations are directly affected by the lawsuit, but the lawsuit isn’t directly about our potential allegations. The damaged parties are the athletes and I bet the plan is to see a lot more declarations given to the court just like Lampley did yesterday.

I agree but thought that was interesting. I think what Tennessee, the AG would be arguing is that The Volunteer Club is not collective of boosters as the NCAA is claiming. That limits what/when/where a student athlete can be in contact. It's sound like to me the NCAA says you can do NIL you just have to do it after the player signs with a university so it can't be a factor in which school the SA chooses. That's a very weak argument in my opinion. It's a chicken or egg type of thing.

Nico: "I hear there's a great NIL marketing company in Knoxville, TN. I think I'll visit them to see what opportunities that exist."
Nico: "This Spyre thing is very appealing, I think I'll sign with them."
Nico: "I wonder if there is a university close by that I could play football that would best prepare me for the NFL, life in general, and increase my brand?"
Nico: "The University of Tennessee is there, I like everything about Knoxville and the University, I think I'll sign there."

The NCAA can't limit a person from signing with any sports agency at any time. Whether that's in high school, college, whatever. That's already been adjudicated in court. If there is a separation between the university and the and the sports agency and there is in this case, there's nothing the NCAA can do. I think that's where the lawsuit is headed.

I would think, @LA Vol can confirm, if the NCAA does come after the UT AD, I would think the University would file it's own lawsuit independent of the AG's lawsuit. I definitely think that the NCAA is about to get hit from many angles. The NCAA may just be litigated into obscurity.

Another thing, I saw another YouTube video where the guy was asking another lawyer if teams could just pull out of the NCAA. He said yes but he wouldn't expect it. Said at the conference level it was much more likely. He mentioned that if Sankey decided to just pull the trigger that that would end the NCAA in one fail swoop.

I know this is a long post but I've always thought the NCAA has multiple times overstepped their bounds. The stuff at Penn State comes to mind. While that stuff was abhorrent and the people that made that stuff possible deserved whatever they got and probably more. I never understood how the NCAA had any jurisdiction in that case. It had nothing to do with the AD with the exception of it was a crime on university property. That should have been only prosecuted criminally and civilly. I don't see how the NCAA had any business in there. JMO

 

[InVOLuntary]

Clarify? Hasn't done any what?

My point about UT/NCAA was a hypothetical if/then.

The NCAA hasn't done anything to the university at this point. There is nothing the University can sue for.

 

[LA Vol]

Dude...you know as well as I do what LOIC means...if you want to bandy subjective opinions about what "destroyed" means, then I am not interested in arguing..I will just simply say to me it means being non-competitive for several years...and I am old.

I think there is a really good chance we win this fight, but there is a possibility we do not, but like I've already said a dozen times...we HAVE to fight this...the NCAA made it thus.

No worries-- you'll have no arguing or further engagement from me.

 

[Jack Burton]

Basilio is holding all calls. He said he has some detail to share about what’s coming next. STAY TUNED.

 

[orange parmejohn]

Residential flatwork, pickleball court market is nuts right now

Commercial footers, walls, flatwork, etc…

Trying to get into pouring tilt ups

I wish Asheville would get a few more pickleball courts. Most of them are for private clubs.

 

[volinexile17]

The only thing the ncaa thinks they have is their definition of a “Booster” and applying it to Spyre who has no affiliation to the University, not sure how they can argue that in court but they will try I guess lol

I have not looked at the rules or guidance, so take this fwiw (probably not much). I think NCAA will have an extremely tough time saying it can regulate what third party individuals and entities do with their money when it’s given to another third party entity (Spyre) who then gives it to a student athlete who is legally allowed to accept that money.

However, I think it is disingenuous to pretend like there is not coordination between UT and Spyre that borders on control.

How would Spyre decide what QB to offer a deal to? If VN were in charge, we probably would have offered eleventy jillion dollars to every 5* WR then pulled those deals for every LT then revoked those for every DB then done it all over again.

I’d guess the NCAA will argue certain collectives are essentially captives of the school because of the amount of control programs have over their actions.

The NCAA will also likely argue that almost all high school players have little to no actual NIL value at the time they are signed and it’s just pay for play. But, JMO, that is a loser. I think you can bet on future value just like Nike did with MJ.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

I agree but thought that was interesting. I think what Tennessee, the AG would be arguing is that The Volunteer Club is a collective of boosters. That limits what/when/where a student athlete can be in contact. It's sound like to me the NCAA says you can do NIL you just have to do it after the player signs with a university so it can't be a factor in which school the SA chooses. That's a very weak argument in my opinion. It's a chicken or egg type of thing.

Nico: "I hear there's a great NIL marketing company in Knoxville, TN. I think I'll visit them to see what opportunities that exist."
Nico: "This Spyre thing is very appealing, I think I'll sign with them."
Nico: "I wonder if there is a university close by that I could play football that would best prepare me for the NFL, life in general, and increase my brand?"
Nico: "The University of Tennessee is there, I like everything about Knoxville and the University, I think I'll sign there."

The NCAA can't limit a person from signing with any sports agency at any time. Whether that's in high school, college, whatever. That's already been adjudicated in court. If there is a separation between the university and the and the sports agency and there is in this case, there's nothing the NCAA can do. I think that's where the lawsuit is headed.

I would think, @LA Vol can confirm, if the NCAA does come after the UT AD, I would think the University would file it's own lawsuit independent of the AG's lawsuit. I definitely think that the NCAA is about to get hit from many angles. The NCAA may just be litigated into obscurity.

Another thing, I saw another YouTube video where the guy was asking another lawyer if teams could just pull out of the NCAA. He said yes but he wouldn't expect it. Said at the conference level it was much more likely. He mentioned that if Sankey decided to just pull the trigger that that would end the NCAA in one fail swoop.

I know this is a long post but I've always thought the NCAA has multiple times overstepped their bounds. The stuff at Penn State comes to mind. While that stuff was abhorrent and the people that made that stuff possible deserved whatever they got and probably more. I never understood how the NCAA had any jurisdiction in that case. It had nothing to do with the AD with the exception of it was a crime on university property. That should have been only prosecuted criminally and civilly. I don't see how the NCAA had any business in there. JMO

Im not LAVol but I can 100% confirm this is what the lawsuit is about and well said!

 

[KptVFL]

I hope you pass your spelling test.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

I have not looked at the rules or guidance, so take this fwiw (probably not much). I think NCAA will have an extremely tough time saying it can regulate what third party individuals and entities do with their money when it’s given to another third party entity (Spyre) who then gives it to a student athlete who is legally allowed to accept that money.

However, I think it is disingenuous to pretend like there is not coordination between UT and Spyre that borders on control.

How would Spyre decide what QB to offer a deal to? If VN were in charge, we probably would have offered eleventy jillion dollars to every 5* WR then pulled those deals for every LT then revoked those for every DB then done it all over again.

I’d guess the NCAA will argue certain collectives are essentially captives of the school because of the amount of control programs have over their actions.

The NCAA will also likely argue that almost all high school players have little to no actual NIL value at the time they are signed and it’s just pay for play. But, JMO, that is a loser. I think you can bet on future value just like Nike did with MJ.

The NCAA can’t stand up in a court law and argue Spyre is connected to a university without some type of proof…like actual documentation (paper stubs, emails, etc) that link the university. Danny White has already come out and said they couldn’t find anything on that so they moved the goalpost and are going with just calling Spyre a “booster”

 

[orange parmejohn]

Basilio is holding all calls. He said he has some detail to share about what’s coming next. STAY TUNED.

Pretty much what LA has already told us.

 

[SmokinBob]

View attachment 616134
So if Spyre actively recruits a player, say Nico, and then we sign that player, Nico, then we in effect have broken the guidelines.

To be clear, I don’t think we did anything wrong. But I’m playing the NCAA argument here based on reporting and their guidelines.

NCAA rules cannot take precedent over state laws. State laws
come first - both the state of Tennessee & of California have ruled that high school students can accept NIL opportunities while still in high school.

 

[utkevdawg1]

Big thanks to the NCAA for giving the board ample things to discuss in the off-season instead of the annual Jordan vs Lebron debate.

 

[volinbama256]

I agree but thought that was interesting. I think what Tennessee, the AG would be arguing is that The Volunteer Club is a collective of boosters. That limits what/when/where a student athlete can be in contact. It's sound like to me the NCAA says you can do NIL you just have to do it after the player signs with a university so it can't be a factor in which school the SA chooses. That's a very weak argument in my opinion. It's a chicken or egg type of thing.

Nico: "I hear there's a great NIL marketing company in Knoxville, TN. I think I'll visit them to see what opportunities that exist."
Nico: "This Spyre thing is very appealing, I think I'll sign with them."
Nico: "I wonder if there is a university close by that I could play football that would best prepare me for the NFL, life in general, and increase my brand?"
Nico: "The University of Tennessee is there, I like everything about Knoxville and the University, I think I'll sign there."

The NCAA can't limit a person from signing with any sports agency at any time. Whether that's in high school, college, whatever. That's already been adjudicated in court. If there is a separation between the university and the and the sports agency and there is in this case, there's nothing the NCAA can do. I think that's where the lawsuit is headed.

I would think, @LA Vol can confirm, if the NCAA does come after the UT AD, I would think the University would file it's own lawsuit independent of the AG's lawsuit. I definitely think that the NCAA is about to get hit from many angles. The NCAA may just be litigated into obscurity.

Another thing, I saw another YouTube video where the guy was asking another lawyer if teams could just pull out of the NCAA. He said yes but he wouldn't expect it. Said at the conference level it was much more likely. He mentioned that if Sankey decided to just pull the trigger that that would end the NCAA in one fail swoop.

I know this is a long post but I've always thought the NCAA has multiple times overstepped their bounds. The stuff at Penn State comes to mind. While that stuff was abhorrent and the people that made that stuff possible deserved whatever they got and probably more. I never understood how the NCAA had any jurisdiction in that case. It had nothing to do with the AD with the exception of it was a crime on university property. That should have been only prosecuted criminally and civilly. I don't see how the NCAA had any business in there. JMO

Good post---

So under this logic, Ole Miss, Auburn, and every other school who has participated in the transfer portal this season will be under full investigation as well or better be, since they will not be able to prove that they got/signed all these new players in the portal, and THEN they talked money and signed an NIL deal.

 

[GVol1966]

Officially maybe. But we ALL know.
Spyre wasn't flying Nico to Tuscaloosa or Columbus.

We ALL know that every team has their version of spyre and NONE of them are there to pay a single $$ to a player of another team.

We ALL also know the NIL rules the NCAA try to use are just like all their other rules.
Used only against some teams for whatever reason ( personal agenda, to take a school down a notch that’s getting a little to big for their britches, to protect their favorite blue bloods, some A whole wanting to make a name for themselves, etc.)

NIL hasn’t changed anything with the NCAA, it’s been known to ALL that everyone has cheated for ever and the corrupt AA has picked and chose what teams they went after.

 

[LA Vol]

I agree but thought that was interesting. I think what Tennessee, the AG would be arguing is that The Volunteer Club is a collective of boosters. That limits what/when/where a student athlete can be in contact. It's sound like to me the NCAA says you can do NIL you just have to do it after the player signs with a university so it can't be a factor in which school the SA chooses. That's a very weak argument in my opinion. It's a chicken or egg type of thing.

Nico: "I hear there's a great NIL marketing company in Knoxville, TN. I think I'll visit them to see what opportunities that exist."
Nico: "This Spyre thing is very appealing, I think I'll sign with them."
Nico: "I wonder if there is a university close by that I could play football that would best prepare me for the NFL, life in general, and increase my brand?"
Nico: "The University of Tennessee is there, I like everything about Knoxville and the University, I think I'll sign there."

The NCAA can't limit a person from signing with any sports agency at any time. Whether that's in high school, college, whatever. That's already been adjudicated in court. If there is a separation between the university and the and the sports agency and there is in this case, there's nothing the NCAA can do. I think that's where the lawsuit is headed.

I would think, @LA Vol can confirm, if the NCAA does come after the UT AD, I would think the University would file it's own lawsuit independent of the AG's lawsuit. I definitely think that the NCAA is about to get hit from many angles. The NCAA may just be litigated into obscurity.

Another thing, I saw another YouTube video where the guy was asking another lawyer if teams could just pull out of the NCAA. He said yes but he wouldn't expect it. Said at the conference level it was much more likely. He mentioned that if Sankey decided to just pull the trigger that that would end the NCAA in one fail swoop.

I know this is a long post but I've always thought the NCAA has multiple times overstepped their bounds. The stuff at Penn State comes to mind. While that stuff was abhorrent and the people that made that stuff possible deserved whatever they got and probably more. I never understood how the NCAA had any jurisdiction in that case. It had nothing to do with the AD with the exception of it was a crime on university property. That should have been only prosecuted criminally and civilly. I don't see how the NCAA had any business in there. JMO

Yes, the TN AG suit is not UT's. Universities, players, boosters, collectives-- any person or entity harmed can file independently. Depending on how the NCAA proceeds, it can be papered. It has acted with impunity because it has been allowed to act that way. Sooner or later, someone wasn't going to take it. And that opens the door. Change was inevitable.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Good post---

So under this logic, Ole Miss, Auburn, and every other school who has participated in the transfer portal this season will be under full investigation as well or better be, since they will not be able to prove that they got/signed all these new players in the portal, and THEN they talked money and signed an NIL deal.

It will depend on whether they can prove NIL was discussed prior to signing. They don't have the benefit of the period when there were really no rules. The NCAA has since come out with rules that evidently forbid contact from a collective until after the player has signed. We know everyone has broken that rule. It's just whether it's provable or if the NCAA cares whether those schools broke the rules or not.

 

[peaygolf]

We ALL know that every team has their version of spyre and NONE of them are there to pay a single $$ to a player of another team.

We ALL also know the NIL rules the NCAA try to use are just like all their other rules.
Used only against some teams for whatever reason ( personal agenda, to take a school down a notch that’s getting a little to big for their britches, to protect their favorite blue bloods, some A whole wanting to make a name for themselves, etc.)

NIL hasn’t changed anything with the NCAA, it’s been known to ALL that everyone has cheated for ever and the corrupt AA has picked and chose what teams they went after.

Yea.
It's a great loophole. Not saying it's wrong.

 

[volinbama256]

BTW,

I saw on X or here, someone mentioned what a coincidence it was that we've had NICO for a while now, signed, enrolled, and has gone through an entire season with us, and we hear NOTHING from the NCAA (If they had an issue, it would have and should have come to light when he actually signed last year)... We hit the bowl game, he finally plays, and he freakin balls out, shows how truly ELITE he is and what an incredible talent and threat he is about to become, and WOW, look at that, here comes the NCAA specifically targeting US and NICO... can't make this 'ish up...

Anyone who thinks for whatever reason, UT doesn't have a bullseye on it's back constantly from the NCAA, officials, and other programs, just look at the lack of penalties on our opponents in football once we started the year hot, when we hear and see the negative recruiting from other programs, look at baseball and what has happened over the past two seasons once we got Tony V and surged into the spotlight and became elite, , and now look at how biased the calls/officiating is going in basketball... Too many negative coincidences ...

 

[Jack Burton]

BTW,

I saw on X or here, someone mentioned what a coincidence it was that we've had NICO for a while now, signed, enrolled, and has gone through an entire season with us, and we hear NOTHING from the NCAA (If they had an issue, it would have and should have come to light when he actually signed last year)... We hit the bowl game, he finally plays, and he freakin balls out, shows how truly ELITE he is and what an incredible talent and threat he is about to become, and WOW, look at that, here comes the NCAA specifically targeting US and NICO... can't make this 'ish up...

Anyone who thinks for whatever reason, UT doesn't have a bullseye on it's back constantly from the NCAA, officials, and other programs, just look at the lack of penalties on our opponents in football once we started the year hot, when we hear and see the negative recruiting from other programs, look at baseball and what has happened over the past two seasons once we got Tony V and surged into the spotlight and became elite, , and now look at how biased the calls/officiating is going in basketball... Too many negative coincidences ...

I thought the same but I think the NCAA informed us back in December but @LA Vol would have to confirm.

 

[volsnvikes]

Stephen King has a son named Joe.


I am not joking, but he surely is.

timeline cleanse. well placed.