Recruiting Football Talk VII

[WesTnVol]

I don't think we lose; but, yes, if we do, we are fked.

But, Weezer makes a good point...selective enforcement OF THIS, will be hard to overlook by our counterparts.

Years ago a friend of mine quit farming and became a professional gambler. I asked him what it took to be willing to risk everything on a card game. He said “If you’re not willing or able to lose everything, then don’t set down at the table”. That’s what this is UT or the NCAA will lose everything or at least close to it. I honestly think we are in the right but I had a lawyer tell me once “what’s right and what’s legal aren’t always the same thing”

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I was watching a sports lawyer on YouTube last night. I think it was the one that's been leaked here. He said one issue with our case was that we don't currently can't show how we have been harmed. It's all potential right now because we haven't received the notice of allegations from the NCAA. He thought the suit might be pre-mature.

He knows more about it than I do by miles but I’m a little confused on that. We dont have to show we’ve been damaged. UT isn’t actually in the lawsuit.. the state of Tennessee and Virginia is. Our potential allegations are directly affected by the lawsuit, but the lawsuit isn’t directly about our potential allegations. The damaged parties are the athletes and I bet the plan is to see a lot more declarations given to the court just like Lampley did yesterday.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Years ago a friend of mine quit farming and became a professional gambler. I asked him what it took to be willing to risk everything on a card game. He said “If you’re not willing or able to lose everything, then don’t set down at the table”. That’s what this is UT or the NCAA will lose everything or at least close to it. I honestly think we are in the right but I had a lawyer tell me once “what’s right and what’s legal aren’t always the same thing”

Little difference with farming. Every year, you're betting the farm.

 

[volsnvikes]

It would be great if the NCAA just said forget everything and let's pretend none of this happened. Best thing for both

At this point they COULD come out and just say this is all false and the NCAA investigators never found any issue at UT. Forde made it all up. Let's move on.




But they won't.

 

[Ten_Titans]

OK….so has a Spyre client signed with anyone other than UT? Sorry if already answered.

No, and I really don't want to see a world where the forum up and starts believing and repeating the talking points of lawyers. We don't need to drink the Koolaid to win against the NCAA.

So, a question. if Nico's deal says he has to attend X speaking events in Knoxville, promote Y businesses in Knoxville, walk up and down Cumberland Z times in a week. Does that mean his contract is tied to the University of Tennessee (located in Knoxville)?

I think most everyone would agree the legal and logical answers to that are two different answers.

It isn't technically tying Nico to the school by giving him a speaking event in the afternoon in the middle of Fall camp. It is just effectively tying him to the school.

 

[overseasorange2]

What the hell are you telling me to relax for?...what I said is the absolute truth....IF...we lose this fight, we are going to get destroyed.

That is the truth...just because nobody wants to hear it, doesn't make it any less true.

We have no choice...the NCAA backed us into a corner, so we have to fight this out now because we are screwed whether we fight or not..but...there is a possibility that this doesn't go the way we think and hope it does...but we have to fight this out now because the only way for us to not be destroyed is to fight and win.

Anybody that thinks this is not going to hurt recruiting, if it hasn't already, I have some ocean front property in Nevada for sale. You don't think some opposing coaches will use it against us? I can just hear them now, " We don't think UT will get penalized, BUT you never know with the NCAA!".

 

[Orange_Crush]

No, and I really don't want to see a world where the forum up and starts believing and repeating the talking points of lawyers. We don't need to drink the Koolaid to win against the NCAA.

So, a question. if Nico's deal says he has to attend X speaking events in Knoxville, promote Y businesses in Knoxville, walk up and down Cumberland Z times in a week. Does that mean his contract is tied to the University of Tennessee (located in Knoxville)?

I think most everyone would agree the legal and logical answers to that are two different answers.

The legal answer to that is all that matters.

 

[LA Vol]

I read you earlier post about Sankey being silent, but do you think he will actively support Tennessee in this process, or is he going to stand by with a bag of popcorn and watch?

Last time, he stayed behind the scenes then came to the hearing with UT, presenting an allied front. He's vocal when displeased.

 

[Jackcrevol]

I know, I’m just saying we get our emotions toyed with lol

OT: They had an interesting storyline. And, while I think it was perfect exit for a lot of characters. They barely grazed the surface of Hydra as a protagonist.

There is a comic series that will be put out as a cartoon, or live action. It will follow Steve Rogers, with SS Serum, during some period before Infinity War, after Ultron.

Nomad (Marvel Comics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The idea is that the US kicked the Avengers out. Shieldless, Steve wears the blue Uni. Will be a good intro for Orange Hulk.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Is the threat real? Absolutely.

Who's the real threat? UT

It IS us or them...you want to ignore the possibility, then I'm glad for you that you can...I can't.

Either way...we HAVE to fight this...and the NCAA made it that way as soon as they threw out the term "Loss Of Institutional Control" along with throwing out "Multiple Sports".

I'm glad we are now led by people with what the French called "Cran" along with sense...the old stupid regime would have just rolled over and died.

 

[Vols410]

Saban = Charmin soft

Throughout his coaching career, Saban loved organizing pickup 3-on-3 basketball games with his coaches at lunchtime. Only in the offseason, mind you.

The games at times were intense, and legend has it that Saban picked the teams and occasionally picked who would guard him.

Kiffin doesn't have any hoops stories because he strategically made it a point not to participate.

"I knew better," Kiffin said. "When I got there, they told me all about the games and how Coach picks the teams and that if you cover him, you can't foul him and probably should let him score some. And I'm like, 'Wrong dude. That ain't happening. I'll just go for a jog or something.'

Entertaining article though - ESPN

 

[orange parmejohn]

Last time, he stayed behind the scenes then came to the hearing with UT, presenting an allied front. He's vocal when displeased.

Basilio said that Sankey has taken a bit of a shine to Plowman. I still despise the guy, but I hope that is true.

 

[DD4ME]

I know our friend McGill has genuine concerns about our ultimate demise

No one has said this out loud, but imagine for one moment, if every UT athlete filed a class action against the NCAA for infringement on their rights if they did act....

 

[Nash_Vol97]

Bradah, Ive run out of real estate to discuss.

If you have time, feel free to search for our discussion, and rantings.

Bradah, go get another coffee. I read through it. Still don’t understand where the NCAA has any merit/validity but it’s all good.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Bradah, go get another coffee. I read through it. Still don’t understand where the NCAA has any merit/validity but it’s all good.

 

[jpope9]

Anybody that thinks this is not going to hurt recruiting, if it hasn't already, I have some ocean front property in Nevada for sale. You don't think some opposing coaches will use it against us? I can just hear them now, " We don't think UT will get penalized, BUT you never know with the NCAA!".

no because Tennessee can spin it as the only ones going to bat for the highschool players getting paid by going after the NCAA, and 2 I would like to think the handlers of the top rated highschool kids are somewhat smart, would know that the college negative recruiting is trying to recruit the prospect with the same NIL tactics they are negative recruiting tennessee about. If we lose, there is nothing stopping the NCAA from going after every NIL that every P5 university uses.


This isnt anything new, this has been in the pipeline for quite some time, other coaches have known about it and it hasnt affected recruiting yet.

 

[Go Fight Win]

Basilio said that Sankey has taken a bit of a shine to Plowman. I still despise the guy, but I hope that is true.

do not rehab that clown sh*thead
he is awful

 

[DD4ME]

Last time, he stayed behind the scenes then came to the hearing with UT, presenting an allied front. He's vocal when displeased.

SEC office

 

[LA Vol]

@LA Vol I know they have too much pride to do so but wouldn’t the best bet for the NCAA here be to say since everything with Nico was done with Spyre, UT is fine and back off enough to then put in some universal rules for everyone so that they maintain “control”?

The contrast is they likely lose the court battle and lose all control.

Seems a weird hill to die on.

They haven't sent a formal NOA. So they can re-evaluate and re-open discussions. I'm sure they've gotten the message that this time is not last time.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

UT is not going to get destroyed. But it is a distraction we don't need and it is adding an extra layer to recruiting. Coaches are having to spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about infractions and keeping players and recruits looped in when they need and want to be focused on the team.

Investigations are always a concern because they create uncertainty, which diverts focus and mental energy from other activities. You're right-- the NCAA engaged, so we have to fight. It puts a burden on those who don't deserve it, but knowing leadership has their back is reassuring. it's unfinished business, and we have to finish it to move forward.

Dude...you know as well as I do what LOIC means...if you want to bandy subjective opinions about what "destroyed" means, then I am not interested in arguing..I will just simply say to me it means being non-competitive for several years...and I am old.

I think there is a really good chance we win this fight, but there is a possibility we do not, but like I've already said a dozen times...we HAVE to fight this...the NCAA made it thus.

 

[orange parmejohn]

They haven't sent a formal NOA. So they can re-evaluate and re-open discussions. I'm sure they've gotten the message that this time is not last time.

This would be the equivalent of a schoolyard bully backing down from a fight with all of the kids on the playground watching.

 

[orange parmejohn]

do not rehab that clown sh*thead
he is awful

I like Basilio.

 

[volsnvikes]

No, and I really don't want to see a world where the forum up and starts believing and repeating the talking points of lawyers. We don't need to drink the Koolaid to win against the NCAA.

So, a question. if Nico's deal says he has to attend X speaking events in Knoxville, promote Y businesses in Knoxville, walk up and down Cumberland Z times in a week. Does that mean his contract is tied to the University of Tennessee (located in Knoxville)?

I think most everyone would agree the legal and logical answers to that are two different answers.

This is the new problem at the NCAA. They don't have to follow legal answers for NIL anymore. They can choose to convict on logical assumption instead.

That's my biggest read on the anger coming from Donde, Danny, and Spyre's public statements, from their perspective. They did everything they could to LEGALLY abide by NCAA and California NIL rules. (as of Mar. 2022 when Nico signed).

In May of 2022 NCAA publicly stated they would consider a Collective a booster.

In Jan. of 2023 the NCAA changed their bylaws to allow circumstantial evidence to be used to convict a member institution in matters associated with NIL. In other words, the University must PROVE a negative (Look at all of our messages, we didn't cheat), instead of the NCAA proving a positive (we found direct evidence you cheated.)

UT feels they abided by the law of the land in Mar. of 2022, and that there is no evidence to say otherwise, but the NCAA can simply disagree and we are found guilty. If there is a need for a lawsuit in this situation, THIS is the part that Spyre, UT, and Nico can possibly stand on.

 

[vol9799]

Yes, but as you can see they aren’t as powerful and that’s where the real issue is. They can’t manipulate it to fit their agenda anymore. It’s not about student athletes for them. It’s about protecting their “deemed” worthy assets.

Actually, I think there are two groups: a handful that are historically powerful and those small institutions without any money or power in athletics. It would make sense that both those groups would like to maintain the status quo. The second group can't really influence the war. The first group could make things interesting. If they do choose to side with the NCAA then people (including athletes) will start questioning why.

It will be interesting to see if they tell the NCAA to drop the UT/FSU/UF stuff in order to keep from risking their positions. If the NCAA chooses war, I'd guess they keep quiet and try to position themselves to weasel their way into positions of power in the next structure of a governing body where they can protect their "reputation" and prolong their "advantaged" status.

This is not just about ending the hypocrisy and inconsistency of the NCAA, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, this is about trying to re-level the playing field in college athletics on a scale that we haven't seen in the last half-century. It strikes me that this is a nightmare scenario for blue bloods of the major sports. The problem they face is that they can't fight the Supreme Court ruling or the court of public opinion on compensating athletes without exposing themselves as being the hypocrites who have been secretly trying to keep a foot on everyone elses' (including the athletes) necks for so long.

 

[MarcoVol]

Is it accurate to assume there are some schools that would rather the NCAA remain in power because of their historical ability to manipulate the NCAA to their own advantage?

The NCAA isn’t in power. And they will have even less after this although the institution will not cease to exist