Recruiting Football Talk VII

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#199,957
#199,957
Devo182 said:
- Born in the USA
- Fortunate Son
- This land is your land
- Pink Houses
- Rockin the free world
- American Life
- Independence Day
- American Woman
- American Pie
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I have to disagree on the Born in the USA. Springsteen has a pessimistic view of our land. it starts:

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just coverin' up

Get’s a bit more positive with:
Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

Just doesn’t sound too upbeat for the land I love.
 
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#199,961
#199,961
GoBears said:
I have to disagree on the Born in the USA. Springsteen has a pessimistic view of our land. it starts:

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just coverin' up

Get’s a bit more positive with:
Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

Just doesn’t sound too upbeat for the land I love.
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Probably get a dumpster GIF but I have never liked his music........didn't help I worked at Billy Bobs pizza circus in high school, a knock off chuckie cheese, and that stupid gorilla band played born to run every 30 minutes.
 
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#199,966
#199,966
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Unprovoked?...uhmm...I used to think so, but not anymore.
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I've got to grant you that, at least, in one sense. That was sloppy on my part.

I know Russian had an army together with the British protecting Sicily from invasion. That Russia did not honor France's embargo of England. And Russian fought with the Austro-Hungary empire against France's invasion of the latter (the war of the 3rd coalition) where Napoleon's celebrated tactics at Austerlitz occurred). Russia was a major party to the 4th coalition with Prussia, along with Saxony, Britain, Sweden. Where Napoleon had invaded northward and taken Hanover (which it wanted to give to Britain as a bargaining chip). Napoleon conquered Berlin, east Prussia, and advanced all the way into Poland and to Russia's border, when Russia sued for peace. Russia did finally issue Napoleon an ultimatum: withdraw from Poland and Prussia or there will be war. When Napoleon refused, it was Russia that first declared war on France. But meanwhile Napoleon had taken Belarus (which was a part of Russia at that time) and was set on driving to Moscow.

I need to read more about the Napoleonic Wars. It is interesting how many people engrossed in WWII don't know the precedent of the scale of the Napoleonic Wars. But as of now, I consider Russia to have been involved always in defensive alliances against Napoleonic expansion.

But Russia surely was a long established enemy and long active in wars against Napoleon. I have to grant you that!

But you may have in mind even other things.
 
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#199,971
#199,971
Orange. said:
I like Tchaikovsky and we've even seen one of his ballets performed in St. Petersburg. I was just messing with @Glitch and @Lloyd_Christmas. I have heard the 1812 -- with its triumphant cannons firing in the conclusion -- in an American patriotic setting before. I don't remember which.

The 1812 Overture is interesting. It is a patriotic piece celebrating the defense of Moscow and the defeat of the foreign invader. At the same time, he takes many elements of native Russian music and incorporates them into in the Western European art and style of music. This was at a time in which there was a debate in Russia between those who rejected European culture as un-Russian and those who wanted to see Russia as a part of Europe. Which is to say to embrace the European Enlightenment. Tchaikovsky seems to say "No" to the anti-Enlightenment stance and also to their opponents who were all-out European "assimilationists." He makes a composition that is both Russian and European.

Many people don't realize what a traumatic event it was for Russia to see the home of Enlightenment (as France was considered) -- the pole star of the optimistic new generation of Russians -- come to sight suddenly as an unprovoked invading imperialist conquerer.

War and Peace in some ways is about this too. The English translations typically fail to make the distinction within their English that the leading families are frequently speaking French to each other: the cosmopolitan language of the time. (Tolstoy's original expresses these conversations in French (not Russian). They were proud Francophiles confronting France against their will.
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