Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#55,926
#55,926
Vols4us said:
Sorry for the length of this post in advance. Posters can say what they want - message board. I see a lot of posts on here that bother me at times and want to address it. It's about the natural instincts and abilities of players versus what position they actually play.

CJP has the full authority to play a guy anywhere he wants if they want to be on the team and see the field. He did with Alontae Taylor. Taylor has played OK - middle of the pack SEC d-back. He may even get better and be in the NFL one day. But his natural position is WR. He doesn't demonstrate the natural instincts (yet) to break on the ball, to read the patterns/QB, to defend when the ball is in the air, etc. He does have quickness, the burst to separate and good hands. CJP knew he had quality and depth at WR, had nothing at CB, and talked Taylor into playing that position. Hope it works out for the team and Taylor's sake, but his natural position is WR.

Dools did the same thing to Teague. Teague was a prototype slot receiver who was a QB in HS. He could really do things with the ball in his hands that we will never know about because of that change. Throughout his career you could see that his natural ability and inclination was to avoid contact, to get away from the opponent. So he miserably failed as a CB. But coach worship on here said that coaches know better. Clue to some - coaches know they have to win to keep the big bucks flowing into their pockets so they will shore up poor roster talent and recruiting with moves they feel are necessary to win, even at the expense of the future of the young person who trusted them with their athletic career.

Fulmer/Chavis did the same thing with Rashad Baker, who was a natural WR that was unafraid of going over the middle and taking contact. They converted him to safety because of poor recruiting. Rashad played good, not great, at UT and well enough to make it into the NFL for an OK career because he was a quality athlete who was tough despite being undersized for the position. However, he and we will never know what he could have done at WR, his natural position.

There are many more examples that I could post, but the above makes the point. If Banks no longer desires to be a RB, that's a major factor in him not being one. However, he is a natural RB, not LB. He does not go down with initial contact with the ball in his hands, he strains to get more and punish the opponent that tries to tackle him. He is the very definition of a power back that can make a D very tired and totally focused on him, which frees up the O scheme. All he needed was work on ball security and to become more mature as a human being. CJP needed depth at ILB, so that's where he went. If he comes back and plays ILB I wish him the best for himself and the team. We will never know what could have been.

My final point is this. Each of the players listed above were recruited to play the natural position that caught the coaches eyes enough to offer a scholarship. All were offered to play their natural position at other P-5 schools. They were quality players that were athletic enough to play a different position once they arrived on campus. None of the players were given a normal period of time to develop in their natural positions before being converted and moved because the coaches were dealing with roster problems. So go easy on them as players. They are team guys that did what the coaches wanted them to do. Not sure that I would do the same, which is why I will not criticize players for transferring. It is their future careers at stake and coaches have different motives for their decisions at times. It's just the nature of the business.
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That's a whole lot of armchair coaching.
 
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#55,928
#55,928
Vols4us said:
Sorry for the length of this post in advance. Posters can say what they want - message board. I see a lot of posts on here that bother me at times and want to address it. It's about the natural instincts and abilities of players versus what position they actually play.

CJP has the full authority to play a guy anywhere he wants if they want to be on the team and see the field. He did with Alontae Taylor. Taylor has played OK - middle of the pack SEC d-back. He may even get better and be in the NFL one day. But his natural position is WR. He doesn't demonstrate the natural instincts (yet) to break on the ball, to read the patterns/QB, to defend when the ball is in the air, etc. He does have quickness, the burst to separate and good hands. CJP knew he had quality and depth at WR, had nothing at CB, and talked Taylor into playing that position. Hope it works out for the team and Taylor's sake, but his natural position is WR.

Dools did the same thing to Teague. Teague was a prototype slot receiver who was a QB in HS. He could really do things with the ball in his hands that we will never know about because of that change. Throughout his career you could see that his natural ability and inclination was to avoid contact, to get away from the opponent. So he miserably failed as a CB. But coach worship on here said that coaches know better. Clue to some - coaches know they have to win to keep the big bucks flowing into their pockets so they will shore up poor roster talent and recruiting with moves they feel are necessary to win, even at the expense of the future of the young person who trusted them with their athletic career.

Fulmer/Chavis did the same thing with Rashad Baker, who was a natural WR that was unafraid of going over the middle and taking contact. They converted him to safety because of poor recruiting. Rashad played good, not great, at UT and well enough to make it into the NFL for an OK career because he was a quality athlete who was tough despite being undersized for the position. However, he and we will never know what he could have done at WR, his natural position.

There are many more examples that I could post, but the above makes the point. If Banks no longer desires to be a RB, that's a major factor in him not being one. However, he is a natural RB, not LB. He does not go down with initial contact with the ball in his hands, he strains to get more and punish the opponent that tries to tackle him. He is the very definition of a power back that can make a D very tired and totally focused on him, which frees up the O scheme. All he needed was work on ball security and to become more mature as a human being. CJP needed depth at ILB, so that's where he went. If he comes back and plays ILB I wish him the best for himself and the team. We will never know what could have been.

My final point is this. Each of the players listed above were recruited to play the natural position that caught the coaches eyes enough to offer a scholarship. All were offered to play their natural position at other P-5 schools. They were quality players that were athletic enough to play a different position once they arrived on campus. None of the players were given a normal period of time to develop in their natural positions before being converted and moved because the coaches were dealing with roster problems. So go easy on them as players. They are team guys that did what the coaches wanted them to do. Not sure that I would do the same, which is why I will not criticize players for transferring. It is their future careers at stake and coaches have different motives for their decisions at times. It's just the nature of the business.
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Overall I get what you're saying. But I don't think "natural" is the correct word to describe where these kids played in HS. Mainly because most HS teams put their best players at skill positions or QB, very rare you don't see someone with Jennings talent as a HS QB, or Crouch playing RB in HS...if anything the college staff evaluation is almost always better than the HS one. At least when it comes to putting the kid at a position he will do best at playing.

There's no doubt in my mind that Banks could play RB here, and he'd be a damn good one. But if the staff wants him at LB and from what I've seen of him at LB, he has the potential to be an elite LB who plays on Sundays. I've not seen that potential (to play in the NFL) in what I personally saw from him as a RB. The fumbles also didn't help him showcase his RB talent either, since it limited his carries.
 
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#55,930
#55,930
Vols4us said:
Sorry for the length of this post in advance. Posters can say what they want - message board. I see a lot of posts on here that bother me at times and want to address it. It's about the natural instincts and abilities of players versus what position they actually play.

CJP has the full authority to play a guy anywhere he wants if they want to be on the team and see the field. He did with Alontae Taylor. Taylor has played OK - middle of the pack SEC d-back. He may even get better and be in the NFL one day. But his natural position is WR. He doesn't demonstrate the natural instincts (yet) to break on the ball, to read the patterns/QB, to defend when the ball is in the air, etc. He does have quickness, the burst to separate and good hands. CJP knew he had quality and depth at WR, had nothing at CB, and talked Taylor into playing that position. Hope it works out for the team and Taylor's sake, but his natural position is WR.

Dools did the same thing to Teague. Teague was a prototype slot receiver who was a QB in HS. He could really do things with the ball in his hands that we will never know about because of that change. Throughout his career you could see that his natural ability and inclination was to avoid contact, to get away from the opponent. So he miserably failed as a CB. But coach worship on here said that coaches know better. Clue to some - coaches know they have to win to keep the big bucks flowing into their pockets so they will shore up poor roster talent and recruiting with moves they feel are necessary to win, even at the expense of the future of the young person who trusted them with their athletic career.

Fulmer/Chavis did the same thing with Rashad Baker, who was a natural WR that was unafraid of going over the middle and taking contact. They converted him to safety because of poor recruiting. Rashad played good, not great, at UT and well enough to make it into the NFL for an OK career because he was a quality athlete who was tough despite being undersized for the position. However, he and we will never know what he could have done at WR, his natural position.

There are many more examples that I could post, but the above makes the point. If Banks no longer desires to be a RB, that's a major factor in him not being one. However, he is a natural RB, not LB. He does not go down with initial contact with the ball in his hands, he strains to get more and punish the opponent that tries to tackle him. He is the very definition of a power back that can make a D very tired and totally focused on him, which frees up the O scheme. All he needed was work on ball security and to become more mature as a human being. CJP needed depth at ILB, so that's where he went. If he comes back and plays ILB I wish him the best for himself and the team. We will never know what could have been.

My final point is this. Each of the players listed above were recruited to play the natural position that caught the coaches eyes enough to offer a scholarship. All were offered to play their natural position at other P-5 schools. They were quality players that were athletic enough to play a different position once they arrived on campus. None of the players were given a normal period of time to develop in their natural positions before being converted and moved because the coaches were dealing with roster problems. So go easy on them as players. They are team guys that did what the coaches wanted them to do. Not sure that I would do the same, which is why I will not criticize players for transferring. It is their future careers at stake and coaches have different motives for their decisions at times. It's just the nature of the business.
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Couple of things I'd point out. One, I think you're making assumptions about "natural positions" and how successful they'd be there. Two, there are plenty of examples of players who switched positions from HS to college that had major success. Think of how Chief used to convert HS RBs to LBs. I'm not going to say the coach is always right, but they see a lot more of these guys than we ever will, and are in a much better position to know what they are and are not capable of.
 
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#55,932
#55,932
The real question is why Kent hasn't worked out.

He's likely transferring after this season, if he even wants to continue to play basketball. So that'll put us at 11 on scholarship for basketball if he's gone, of a possible 13.

With Bowden & Turner graduating we'll have 1 extra for the 2020 class, wonder if we sign another or look for a transfer?
 
#55,934
#55,934
MoCo_Vol said:
The real question is why Kent hasn't worked out.

He's likely transferring after this season, if he even wants to continue to play basketball. So that'll put us at 11 on scholarship for basketball if he's gone, of a possible 13.

With Bowden & Turner graduating we'll have 1 extra for the 2020 class, wonder if we sign another or look for a transfer?
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Vescovi
 
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#55,936
#55,936
Weezer said:
Couple of things I'd point out. One, I think you're making assumptions about "natural positions" and how successful they'd be there. Two, there are plenty of examples of players who switched positions from HS to college that had major success. Think of how Chief used to convert HS RBs to LBs. I'm not going to say the coach is always right, but they see a lot more of these guys than we ever will, and are in a much better position to know what they are and are not capable of.
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Untestable theories are always great for debate. Stephen A is cashing in on that to the tune of 8 million a year
 
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#55,937
#55,937
Be nice if we add Cardwell or a big body...I'd be pretty happy to land Akeem Odusipe personally, he's rumored to basically be a lock if offered. Could be why he's not committed anywhere, just waiting to see if we have room for him.
 
#55,939
#55,939
TrippieRedd said:
Vescovi
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Yeah...he seems a hot name.

I get the need for a true PG, but I feel like with Springer, JJJ, Keon, Bailey, Gaines we might be solid. I mean maybe they feel good with just Uros, Fulkerson, ORN, & Pember next season. I'd just like a legit big in this class since Walker is closer to a Pons type body.
 
#55,940
#55,940
revjayp said:
Sounds a lot like Vandy. Can you imagine that game?? It’s be like 2 midgets fighting over a step stool.
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Don't insult the mighty Vandals like that. They play in one of the strangest venues in college sports. I present to you...

The Kibbie Dome

1574351660758.jpeg
maxresdefault.jpg



Located in beautiful Moscow, Idaho, comrades.
 
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#55,947
#55,947
MoCo_Vol said:
Yeah...he seems a hot name.

I get the need for a true PG, but I feel like with Springer, JJJ, Keon, Bailey, Gaines we might be solid. I mean maybe they feel good with just Uros, Fulkerson, ORN, & Pember next season. I'd just like a legit big in this class since Walker is closer to a Pons type body.
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No trust me, I feel the same way. Vescovi is good, but we need a legit big to go with Uros. I really wanted Cardwell.
 
#55,949
#55,949
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