Recruiting Forum Football Talk LVIII

[BigZiti09]

The problem is boosters not getting out of the way much more so than buildings. Boosters don't and can't focus on winning. They fight for power and our leadership hasn't been strong enough to stop that.

Ok - so let’s put these dumbass facility upgrades on hold til we do some winning.

 

[jakez4ut]

I will say it this way. We have spent millions on property and facilities instead of on people. People make an organization successful and then the material things come. I agree that we have hired the wrong people, and that's why we are in this situation.

Bama hires Saban, and the rest is history.

it's not just that. look who, and how, they hired AD's. look at who and how FL hires AD's.

there's clearer objectives and missions at schools like that than there are at UT.

another outgoing chancellor, fired/demoted by an outgoing president.

the future is quite literally, now. i doubt we'll see a permanent replacement hired by joe d. the new president will get that opportunity, and it'll be interesting to see who both are, and what their connections are to HOH, or not.

one thing i do take away from this is that when Bev fired Currie, there was a prevailing thought that that move was backed by at least a group of other fairly powerful boosters, and that power shifted in their direction.

if that were the case, i would imagine that group would have been able to prevent this from happening. it appears that's not the case.

i find it interesting that Joe D would fire her (even if his assertions in his letter were 100% accurate, and they may be on some level), at this point in time, knowing he's on the way to retirement.

is it really in the best interest of UT to have this much turnover at the top of the University, again, knowing there's also going to be a new president in the not so distant future as well?

as i've thought about it more, it does scream HOH asserting itself once again, and apparently there's no one really capable of stopping it.

the only sliver of hope i cling to is this...if this is HOH, and they are pulling the strings....and you're going to get who you want as President anyway, why make Joe D do this? YOUR guy/gal can pull that trigger when they get here, so what's the rush, if the end game is already decided? of course, if your HOH, the simple answer could just be "because we can". :dunno:

 

[BruinVol]

Ok - so let’s put these dumbass facility upgrades on hold til we do some winning.

And they aren't connected

 

[BigZiti09]

And they aren't connected

Oh but they are. Facilities is what we prioritize. 2002-now

 

[tennvols77]

Good post. Agree with most everything you stated.

I was born and raised a Reds fan. My dad played low minors ball after WW II and I played in college. I've had many personal experiences with the old BRM players along with KCR's for a couple of years at their ST facilities in FL in the early 80's. Learned a few things from the experiences.

Both families are highly successful at what they do as their primary endeavors. They sincerely want the best to happen IMO. But both are complete failures at what they are passionate about in the sporting world. They don't think right to win consistently at a high level. The success in their primary careers does not translate from one to the other. They think they can daily manage and call all the major shots because they do it in their primary careers. That's boastful pride talking. It is rare for it to work out well that way.
:hi:

This is the ego problem. Like they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[BruinVol]

Oh but they are

Not even close.



AD says we need to upgrade facilities.


Boosters donate funds.


Bosters stay out of the way.


Coaches coach.
Players play.

 

[tennvols77]

The best part of being a Bengals fan is that it prepared me to better deal with the crappy seasons of my beloved Vols.

 

[BruinVol]

Facilities is what we prioritize. 2002-now

All the schools you named prioritizing winning upgraded facilities as well but they have won because they had the right Coaches in place. We didn't. Upgrading facilities had nothing to do with that

 

[Chuckie]

Wrong? That's your opinion, not a fact. Clearly many of us, with IQs over 50, agree with him.

And you're wrong. He didn't put third world "suffering" in the same context as Pruitt's reply. He put in the context of the reporter who ask the question about we poor "suffering" fans.

And his point, since you clearly missed it, was that it's insulting (another of your words) to think we fans are truly "suffering" because our poor fb team hasn't done so well lately. In the meantime, you want to talk about suffering.... A little much needed perspective.

It goes both ways. What your post fails to recognize is that "suffer" is a relative term (experience or be subjected to something bad or unpleasant).

Mock is suffering right now. Warren Buffet suffered a loss to his investment portfolio in February. Newt suffered a few months ago when his wife's hip was injured.

All of those pale in comparison to the suffering of citizens of third-world countries, but each suffered/is suffering nonetheless.

And, when compared to others in the universe of "people who are fans of any specific NCAA football team", those of us who are fans of the University of Tennessee football team have suffered more than most others in that universe over the past decade.

 

[BigZiti09]

Not even close.



AD says we need to upgrade facilities.


Boosters donate funds.


Bosters stay out of the way.


Coaches coach.
Players play.

Last 15 years prove that’s not how it works at UT

 

[BruinVol]

Last 15 years prove that’s not how it works at UT

Failed coaches prove why we have lost.

No coach since Fulmer would succeed at a high level in a highly functional athletic department and they certainly wouldn't if the facilities weren't upgraded waiting on them to win.

 

[Chuckie]

Not even close.



AD says we need to upgrade facilities.


Boosters offer to donate funds if certain positions are filled with those the booster/donor deems favorable

Positions are filled to the satisfaction of the donor/booster.


Bosters stay out of the way.


Coaches coach.
Players play.

fyp

 

[mrMet]

All the schools you named prioritizing winning upgraded facilities as well but they have won because they had the right Coaches in place. We didn't. Upgrading facilities had nothing to do with that

This is where you’re wrong. Florida’s facilities suck major ass

 

[BruinVol]

This is where you’re wrong. Florida’s facilities suck major ass

And their program has taken steps backwards as well. Coaching hires have also been a part of that

 

[ATC_VOL]

Are there any other airports that you guys would fly into that are close(ish) to Knoxville outside of Nashville?

I just did a quick search and found American to CHA from PHX was roughly $150 less round trip than anything I saw going to TYS. Was same price as flying Delta to ATL. Didn’t check Southwest to BNA yet.

I searched you flying in on Friday and leaving Sunday. If you came earlier or left later that would also be cheaper, minus additional hotel nights, as Fri/Sun are usually more expensive.

 

[BruinVol]

fyp

I am saying our problem has been coaches AND boosters not getting out of te way.

Building buildings isn't any part of the problem. In fact better facilities is great for recruiting

 

[Ron Swanson]

Because we worry about buildings instead of winning. Been that way since 2001.

We end up catering to boosters who contribute to these dumbass projects instead of focusing on winning. That’s how the Haslam’s really gained control. Dickey wanted to win. Mid major mike wanted to build castles.

It's about culture. What do we prioritize?

Bama prioritizes winning. So does Auburn. So does Florida.

We prioritize comfort and facilities.

I think Hammy was put in charge in 2001. At that point our focus became facilities. Under Dickey we were focused on winning big in football. After Hammy took over we started taking on these massive facility projects that required booster contributions. Who was the biggest giver? Haslam. So their influence and power grew.

Things went belly up and we had to hire Hatchet Man Dave Hart to come in and clean house. After that we returned to facilities and Haslam puppet John Currie. Again our focus went back to facilities. Namely the stadium renovation.

We don't need contributions to win at football. We need big donors to help build buildings.

The UTAD needs to focus on winning and stop worrying about facilities. If you win, you will have people lining up to throw money our way. The stadium renovation should start after we hoist a trophy in Atlanta.

It's a culture thing.

By giving money and getting out of the way.

I'm against any unnecessary facility upgrades until we are winning again.

Neyland Stadium needs an upgrade? Maybe we shouldn't have built a state of the art pool for the swim team. How many millions we got in the row house? Sure would be nice to have some of the money we spent on a soccer stadium.

Ziti spittin' facts. :good!:

 

[BigZiti09]

I am saying our problem has been coaches AND boosters not getting out of te way.

Building buildings isn't any part of the problem

Yeah it is. We have been strapped financially and facility upgrades have misplaced our priority and given power to boosters because we NEED their support for unnecessary upgrades.

 

[BruinVol]

Yeah it is. We have been strapped financially and facility upgrades have misplaced our priority and given power to boosters because we NEED their support for unnecessary upgrades.

I think the only way it's connected is if we didn't hire a high dollar coach because we were pinching pennies for facilities.

In all our coaching searches I don't recall anyone saying we could have hired a bigger name if we opened up our pocket books.

Imo we hired whom we thought was best at the time that we could get and we thought wrong

 

[RiotVol]

It's about culture. What do we prioritize?

Bama prioritizes winning. So does Auburn. So does Florida.

We prioritize comfort and facilities.

I think Hammy was put in charge in 2001. At that point our focus became facilities. Under Dickey we were focused on winning big in football. After Hammy took over we started taking on these massive facility projects that required booster contributions. Who was the biggest giver? Haslam. So their influence and power grew.

Things went belly up and we had to hire Hatchet Man Dave Hart to come in and clean house. After that we returned to facilities and Haslam puppet John Currie. Again our focus went back to facilities. Namely the stadium renovation.

We don't need contributions to win at football. We need big donors to help build buildings.

The UTAD needs to focus on winning and stop worrying about facilities. If you win, you will have people lining up to throw money our way. The stadium renovation should start after we hoist a trophy in Atlanta.

It's a culture thing.

I was an undergrad when Hammy took over and I think the first place you saw all of this hit first was the treatment of students. Then, once he saw he could jack the prices up on them, then he went after long-time season ticket holders who weren’t big money donors.

It was like a bad 1980s business playbook for how to take a successful company, squeeze out all of profits to shareholders, and then bounce when it’s time to declare for bankruptcy. Except in this case, buildings and stadium renovations were the tax write-offs instead of shareholder profits.

I’ll be honest in that my dream job in academia is to be back at UT. However, if this ongoing sh@#show is making me leery of UT, what about people who didn’t grow up in TN? This is eventually going to cost UT quality faculty if it hasn’t already.

We’re not at a University of Missouri level freak out where anyone worth a crap is leaving, but if this bulls#$$ doesn’t stop, it’s on the horizon.

 

[jakez4ut]

It's about culture. What do we prioritize?

Bama prioritizes winning. So does Auburn. So does Florida.

We prioritize comfort and facilities.

I think Hammy was put in charge in 2001. At that point our focus became facilities. Under Dickey we were focused on winning big in football. After Hammy took over we started taking on these massive facility projects that required booster contributions. Who was the biggest giver? Haslam. So their influence and power grew.

Things went belly up and we had to hire Hatchet Man Dave Hart to come in and clean house. After that we returned to facilities and Haslam puppet John Currie. Again our focus went back to facilities. Namely the stadium renovation.

We don't need contributions to win at football. We need big donors to help build buildings.

The UTAD needs to focus on winning and stop worrying about facilities. If you win, you will have people lining up to throw money our way. The stadium renovation should start after we hoist a trophy in Atlanta.

It's a culture thing.

agreed. :thumbsup: and it's not just the athletic facilities, they've also spent big money on academic facility upgrades, so that influence is not just w/in the athletic department.

it's everywhere. we now know how influential it was on the BOT, and with Joe D, and now also the Chancellor.

 

[BigZiti09]

I think the only way it's connected is if we didn't hire a high dollar coach because we were pinching pennies for facilities.

In all our coaching searches I don't recall anyone saying we could have hired a bigger name if we opened up our pocket books.

Imo we hired whom we thought was best at the time that we could get and we thought wrong

Who made the hires since 2009?

 

[Chuckie]

I am saying our problem has been coaches AND boosters not getting out of te way.

Building buildings isn't any part of the problem. In fact better facilities is great for recruiting

In and of itself, you are correct. However, we seem to have allowed influence to accompany large donations from certain boosters/donors, to the detriment of our program.

 

[jordan4vols]

[twitter]992012099571380224[/twitter]

 

[BruinVol]

Who made the hires since 2009?

I guess you are going to say Haslam.
Keep in mind I am agreeing with you that boosters not getting out of the way is a problem


I just value the importance of upgraded facilities when it comes to recruiting. Imo upgrades are necessary