Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[HoleInTheRoof]

Belichick is the last coach to lead Cleveland to a division title and playoff win.

All while the owner was trying to sabotage his efforts and move the team to another city.

 

[HankHill]

It was Cleveland.

I agree that dooley was a terrible coach. What makes Butch so awful is that he had talent, and still couldn’t win. He had NFL talent and the best he could do was 8-4 with losses to horrible teams like S.C. and Vandy. That hurts your argument to argue that he has talent in the NFL that are producing. That’s the point! He couldn’t win with Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Malone, and freaking Derek Barnett. Give basically any other coach that roster and at worst they win the east. A really good coach would be in the freaking playoffs. But Butch went 8-4.

And after it was shown that he couldn’t win, the talent stopped coming, which is why we went 4-8 and is why we are where we are now, starting over. He’s a horrible coach who is nothing but a used car salesman.

Yes a REALLY good coach would’ve been in the playoff with that roster. But isn’t a really good coach. Just him identifying and getting that talent and having a couple solid years in a really hard conference tells you that he isn’t as bad as a lot of coaches. Also, Going 9-4 is winning. No matter what way you try to flip it. A lot of schools in the country, including us, would kill for back to back 9 win seasons right now.

I’m not trying to come to the rescue for butch or whatever but if I’m a crappy program and i look at his resume from a non UT lover prospective and see hey this guy has had some reasonable success and some experience i would give him a call. You can’t honestly say that if you were a... Virginia or Indiana fan, you would absolutely hate it if you hired butch...if you’re being objective and not a die hard.

 

[HankHill]

Still weird that you think KC is that guy. He was crazy inconsistent in an offense that asked less of him than ours does of JG.


JG hasn't been great, but I highly doubt our record is any better right now with KC. We'd have had some more first downs and fewer sacks. Definitely some more INTs. Fewer explosive plays downfield completed as well. Getting the ball out more quickly doesn't make too much of a difference if you're throwing the ball away on 2nd or 3rd and long. Just gives the Punter a bit more room to work with.

We will probably never know.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

All of them but kamara and Hurd like him. Barnett and dobbs love butch.

Without newton Chizik never wins a title, without Brady bellicheck never wins anything. You can play that game all day.

I get the butch hate. But people act like he’s a middle school coach it’s just silly.

I think he's a below average at this level. I know it's not necessarily the end all, but the dude is not good when it comes to X's and O's, developing guys, or in the handling of personnel. Several that were/are close to the program have brought that to light. He has an elevated opinion of himself to say the least.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

All of them but kamara and Hurd like him. Barnett and dobbs love butch.

Without newton Chizik never wins a title, without Brady bellicheck never wins anything. You can play that game all day.

I get the butch hate. But people act like he’s a middle school coach it’s just silly.

I also think Belichick ultimately would be fine without Brady. I'm just not going to take anything away from arguably the greatest coach to ever live.

 

[drvenner]

Real talk, you want to place that bet baw? Or do you just agree with my take that this team won't make a Final Four?

Another take that is a safe, parrotted take with absolutely no foundation in fact. He said it is very hard to make the Final Four and that he is ready to enjoy this season if they don't make it. Since you have difficulty comprehending posts that don't parrot your weak takes, he was saying it is unlikely we make the Final Four. He also pointed out that you did not seem to realize that your assertion that Gonzaga was better was solely based upon where they're ranked and it's very doubtful you knew their best player was out a couple of months. You just go ahead and carry on with your weak takes and you might learn to like getting drug like you have been.

 

[butchna]

When did i say that? Bc before the year i said JG would be the starter and was the favorite. So keep throwing stuff out and hoping it sticks.

And then shortly after preached the attributes of Chryst as only a self-proclaimed guru/insider can preach. Let’s keep it small...$100. But BOTH have to be gone after the season as you guaranteed.

 

[Smokey123]

Butch would probably be ok at a lower tier P5 school without high expectations and less media/fan scrutiny. The guy just can't take pressure and isn't great at Xs and Os. But 4/5 years he had his guys playing hard week in and week out. Maybe 2nd time around he'd be willing to hire more than just yes men. If he went somewhere like Maryland an went 4-8, 5-7. 7-5, then he'd probably get decent praise, would be able to sleep at night, and could string together pretty consistent bowl seasons.

I agree. Playing MSU, UM, Osu and Psu may not be the best division for him tho lol

 

[HankHill]

I think he's a below average at this level. I know it's not necessarily the end all, but the dude is not good when it comes to X's and O's, developing guys, or in the handling of personnel. Several that were/are close to the program have brought that to light. He has an elevated opinion of himself to say the least.

Real question:
A coach puts a however many NFL players he found and recruited into the league....how can you say he can’t develop players? Was dobbs the same QB when he first stepped on campus?

If butch was bad at Xs and Os, bad at development, bad at everything else...how the hell could you win 9 games back to back years in the best conference in America.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Yes a REALLY good coach would’ve been in the playoff with that roster. But isn’t a really good coach. Just him identifying and getting that talent and having a couple solid years in a really hard conference tells you that he isn’t as bad as a lot of coaches. Also, Going 9-4 is winning. No matter what way you try to flip it. A lot of schools in the country, including us, would kill for back to back 9 win seasons right now.

I’m not trying to come to the rescue for butch or whatever but if I’m a crappy program and i look at his resume from a non UT lover prospective and see hey this guy has had some reasonable success and some experience i would give him a call. You can’t honestly say that if you were a... Virginia or Indiana fan, you would absolutely hate it if you hired butch...if you’re being objective and not a die hard.

I would see that he sold a lot of lies to get talent to Tn. When he got them there, the best he could do was 8-4 in the regular season with losses to crappy teams like Vandy and S.C. then, I would also see that recruits wised up to his lies and stopped coming when he proved he couldn’t win at a high level, and the program tanked to the worst record in school history.

I wouldn’t hire Butch to coach my high school program because you can’t trust him. He’s a fraud. But he’s so arrogant he can’t see it.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

I have had this thought for a while about Gruden.

He is in for the long haul.

He is tanking and trading for draft picks.

He is going to build a young roster of his players.

Not a bad move. Might even be tanking for Tua in year 2.

He is playing the long game.

I'm not out on Gruden. I know he's having a terrible year but I still believe he's a good coach. However, I would still take Mullen and Frost over him at Tennessee. Caught hell for saying that back in the good ol days of Grudenmania.

 

[HankHill]

And then shortly after preached the attributes of Chryst as only a self-proclaimed guru/insider can preach. Let’s keep it small...$100. But BOTH have to be gone after the season as you guaranteed.

You said both would be here so that part of the bet too?

Both gone- i win
Both here - i win
Anything else a push?

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Real question:
A coach puts a however many NFL players he found and recruited into the league....how can you say he can’t develop players? Was dobbs the same QB when he first stepped on campus?

If butch was bad at Xs and Os, bad at development, bad at everything else...how the hell could you win 9 games back to back years in the best conference in America.

Lol. 9 games with that roster. That’s your argument?

 

[MrVolton]

You may want to look up bellicheck stint in Cleveland and his first year in NE without Brady.

Butch one of the worst coaches in SEC history??? Have you seen his record. Like that doesn’t even make statistical sense. The coach directly before him (Dooley) was worse than him. A good chunk of his roster is currently in the NFL and a lot of them producing lol.

Belichick had an 11 win season with Matt Cassel at QB. Just saying.

Butch Jones is responsible for the worst UT football season in over 100 years of history, and that in his 5th year on the job. May not be the worst coach in SEC history, but a valid case could be made for worst coach in UT history.

Jones’s offense is definitely pee wee league, at least in regards to line play. Sure it scored a bunch and got a lot of yards at it’s peak, but that is somewhat fool’s gold. That same offense foundered with pocket passers at the helm, and everyone but Jones could see that a mobile QB was a MUST for that system. Dobbs, Kamara, and Hurd constantly had to make people miss in the back field and got all them yards entirely on their own without any blocking.

And regarding his 9 win season, I think any current SEC coach would have won the east with that roster.

All that said, I could see him consistently producing 7 or 8 wins a year at Maryland. If he learned from the S&C debacle, that is.

 

[HankHill]

I also think Belichick ultimately would be fine without Brady. I'm just not going to take anything away from arguably the greatest coach to ever live.

He has literally done basically nothing but fail without Brady so it’s hard for me to put him there.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

You are infatuated with Mullen, maybe it's time to put on the gator hat. I don't get it, some people act like Mullen is the greatest coach of all time and that he has just been unfortunate in that he has been at traditionally bad schools.

The guy is legit

 

[HankHill]

Lol. 9 games with that roster. That’s your argument?

He built that roster.... a coach as bad as you are making butch out to be is never going to build a roster capable of that...hense Derek Dooley.

 

[Smokey123]

Saying Butch is a bad evaluator of talent is probably a better argument than he can’t develop talent. There’s only a few players that you can say regressed, most due to injuries.

Giving in to players and over hauling the S&C program was definitely dumb tho. Gotta hold players accountable in workouts and meetings

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

He built that roster.... a coach as bad as you are making butch out to be is never going to build a roster capable of that...hense Derek Dooley.

A good coach wins far more with that roster. Heck, an average coach wins far more with that roster. An average coach wins the east and is in the sugar bowl at the very least in 2016.

What happened to butch’s eye for talent and development after 2016?

 

[HankHill]

Belichick had an 11 win season with Matt Cassel at QB. Just saying.

Butch Jones is responsible for the worst UT football season in over 100 years of history, and that in his 5th year on the job. May not be the worst coach in SEC history, but a valid case could be made for worst coach in UT history.

Jones’s offense is definitely pee wee league, at least in regards to line play. Sure it scored a bunch and got a lot of yards at it’s peak, but that is somewhat fool’s gold. That same offense foundered with pocket passers at the helm, and everyone but Jones could see that a mobile QB was a MUST for that system. Dobbs, Kamara, and Hurd constantly had to make people miss in the back field and got all them yards entirely on their own without any blocking.

A pee wee league offense scored a bunch of points and racked up a lot of yards in the SEC. Sign up the CBFO 11s for that and watch out.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

A pee wee league offense scored a bunch of points and racked up a lot of yards in the SEC. Sign up the CBFO 11s for that and watch out.

He has Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, and Malone. What happened when those guys left? He didn’t manage them well when he had them. Don’t take my word for it. Ask them.

He had all that NFL talent that he lied to to get them here and won 8 games. You’re trying to say that’s a good coaching job. Garbage.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

Maryland would be set up for failure. 5th best job (at best) in that division.

He’d be playing with the deck stacked against him from a talent standpoint. I can’t see him being successful in that scenario.

Only way he wins if he has superior talent, and he wouldn't have that at Maryland. He's not a good enough coach to out scheme anyone of significance. He's a football idiot at this level.

 

[HankHill]

A good coach wins far more with that roster. Heck, an average coach wins far more with that roster. An average coach wins the east and is in the sugar bowl at the very least in 2016.

What happened to butch’s eye for talent and development after 2016?

You got one year to find out. And we were a dropped John kelly walk in touch down from beating Florida again. I wanted butch gone so Im not going pretend i didn’t but still

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

You got one year to find out. And we were a dropped John kelly walk in touch down from beating Florida again. I wanted butch gone so Im not going pretend i didn’t but still

A Florida team that also went 4-7. Do you hear yourself or are you trolling.

Oh, and if it weren’t for Butch Jones, we would’ve won that game going away!! He is the reason we lost the game for crying out loud.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

You may want to look up bellicheck stint in Cleveland and his first year in NE without Brady.

Butch one of the worst coaches in SEC history??? Have you seen his record. Like that doesn’t even make statistical sense. The coach directly before him (Dooley) was worse than him. A good chunk of his roster is currently in the NFL and a lot of them producing lol.

I'd argue those players developed themselves to a point rather than it having anything to do with Jones. All he did was get them here, which he's to be commended on. He had no idea how to manage that sort of talent though.