Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[ChismsHeadband]

Typical female attempt at trying to be funny (please don't hurt me)

 

[LA Vol]

Sorry! I was trying to be funny about someone saying we acted like they didn't have a weight room before Pruitt got here.

My bad. Sailed right over my head! Somebody actually said that a while back.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Typical female attempt at trying to be funny (please don't hurt me)

Well, you will have to explain what you're trying to say before I decide whether or not I'm going to hurt you. Just a warning, in 7th grade I was voted by my classmates as most likely to become a boxer, and it was the males that voted for me.

 

[UTMVol76]

Free Will and all. The Bible talks about being too Religious. I am more Spiritual than Religious.

I think your on the right track, but I’d use another word: Ethical. Christianity wasn’t founded as a religion per se, but The Way as it’s called in the NT was an Ethic of how we treat one another.

 

[butchna]

I give our chances of hiring him at 1% given his salary and buyout.

Up from 0% when last we discussed...not bad!

 

[LA Vol]

We'll know it when we see it.

2018 is far too early to pass any judgement at least in a negative direction for CJP. Kinda weird to say, because IMO he deserves a ton of credit for Auburn and even Kentucky. We just flat ran out of gas against Mizzou and Vandy.

2019 can be promising but will still have a fair share of frustrations, because we're weak/shallow along both lines.

2020 should see us take a step forward, but then in 2021, we'll be replacing JG (some will cheer) so I assume our offense will take at least a slight step backwards. I can see us going like, 10-2 in 2020, and 8-4 in 2021.

Go 8-4 in 2021 after what's hopefully a pretty good 2020, and we'll be okay. It'll probably be frustrating to the most extreme in the fanbase, but it still means we're not losing to Vandy, Kentucky, Mizzou, or Carolina.. which is something we could only dream of saying for the better part of the decade.

If we see a collapse in 2021 (like 2017), or if by then no progress has been made in our ability to challenge or beat Florida/Georgia/Bama, then unfortunately it might be time to try someone new.

I'm not alone in the faith I currently have in CJP&Co.. we've had a taste of gimmicks and false hope; talkers and cons; we can now differentiate between a guy who actually knows what he's doing and a guy who's faking it til he's making it. We're in the toughest conference, and the East has gotten a lot better in just the last couple of years. CJP is inexperienced as a HC, and he's going to make mistakes. I'm down for at least 4 years, and it's looking like his stay will be a bit longer if we're lucky.

I also believe CJP will get it done. I just don't believe in blank checks.

 

[SweetasSoda]

I think your on the right track, but I’d use another word: Ethical. Christianity wasn’t founded as a religion per se, but The Way as it’s called in the NT was an Ethic of how we treat one another.

Actually Jesus said he is The Way in the NT. He's the way to the Father and salvation which is a little more than just how we treat one another which any religion can help one achieve.

 

[ChismsHeadband]

I also believe CJP will get it done. I just don't believe in blank checks.

I think every coach needs 3 years minimum to see what they're about. How they recruit, how they work with what they have, how academics are enforced, how discipline is instilled.

A 3 year blank check is a lot different than 5 though, that's for sure.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Up from 0% when last we discussed...not bad!

No, I gave it a better chance then. Then I found out the buyout and his salary was more than I thought. I was thinking $1.2m and he's making $1.5m. probably gonna have to pay him $1.75m at least.

Unless he and the AD are at odds or if the rumors are true that the AD is wanting to cut costs, then all bets are off.

 

[butchna]

No, I gave it a better chance then. Then I found out the buyout and his salary was more than I thought. I was thinking $1.2m and he's making $1.5m. probably gonna have to pay him $1.75m at least.

Unless he and the AD are at odds or if the rumors are true that the AD is wanting to cut costs, then all bets are off.

You said no chance before. Now you claim that an extra $300 k is making you tuck your twigs and berries?

 

[LA Vol]

No, I gave it a better chance then. Then I found out the buyout and his salary was more than I thought. I was thinking $1.2m and he's making $1.5m. probably gonna have to pay him $1.75m at least.

Unless he and the AD are at odds or if the rumors are true that the AD is wanting to cut costs, then all bets are off.

Walz's total compensation package at Louisville, including base, bonuses, and perks, is around $2M and if UL wants to keep him, they might sweeten that. Plus, a top coach like Walz is going to want to bring all new staff-- who wouldn't?-- and that would at least double the current staff budget. UT's staff is not well-paid. It would triple the outlay to replace the entire existing staff with a top staff-- then add Holly's $690K buyout and Walz's $1.475M buyout to that.

UT hasn't invested in WBB in years. While other schools have been upgrading staffs, UT has been cutting costs with every replacement. Holly was paid less than a third of Pat's salary and replacing Elzy with Gordon saved another $50K. UT has resisted change because it hasn't been cost-effective in a non-revenue sport. This is a strategy decision, and that's how UT is looking at it.

 

[KokoBVol]

Jerod Mayo is now LB coach for Patriots.

 

[LA Vol]

I think every coach needs 3 years minimum to see what they're about. How they recruit, how they work with what they have, how academics are enforced, how discipline is instilled.

A 3 year blank check is a lot different than 5 though, that's for sure.

Not disagreeing at all. After 2 years, you have a good sense of what you have, 3 years adds validation or brings up questions, then you evaluate year-by-year and see how things are progressing. IDT there's any reason to doubt CJP at this point-- or any thought that his time is limited.

 

[JohnnyD1024]

I wonder if the Louisville AD would be willing to wave his buyout just to get his salary off the books for the remaining 6 seasons.

 

[JohnnyD1024]

 

[bignewt]

No, I gave it a better chance then. Then I found out the buyout and his salary was more than I thought. I was thinking $1.2m and he's making $1.5m. probably gonna have to pay him $1.75m at least.

Unless he and the AD are at odds or if the rumors are true that the AD is wanting to cut costs, then all bets are off.

paying a womens bb coach that much is ridiculous.

 

[SSVol]

Walz's total compensation package at Louisville, including base, bonuses, and perks, is around $2M and if UL wants to keep him, they might sweeten that. Plus, a top coach like Walz is going to want to bring all new staff-- who wouldn't?-- and that would at least double the current staff budget. UT's staff is not well-paid. It would triple the outlay to replace the existing staff with a top staff-- then add Holly's $690K buyout and Walz's $1.475M buyout to that.

UT hasn't invested in WBB in years. While other schools have been upgrading staffs, UT has been cutting costs with every replacement. Holly was paid less than a third of Pat's salary and replacing Elzy with Gordon saved another $50K. UT has resisted change because it hasn't been cost-effective in a non-revenue sport. This is a strategy decision, and that's how UT is looking at it.

Even if none of the sports made the first dime, their impact on the over-all bottom line is huge and it's directly related to the TV time and fan apparel sales/use...advertising that others pay you for. Winning on TV and winning tournaments drives fans and drives enrollment. Of course it also turns out that you can make fair bit of money on sports, but dang, these bean counter type ADs seem completely clueless of the real benefit of marquee sports.

 

[butchna]

paying a womens bb coach that much is ridiculous.

We paid Summitt more...when it would have been considered so compared to other women’s HC’s.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I mean I'd love to have Walz, but no thanks to anything north of 1.5m a year....I'd rather pay Kelly Jolly about what Holly is making and bring back a VFL to coach who loves the tradition as much as the fanbase.

 

[SSVol]

I mean I'd love to have Walz, but no thanks to anything north of 1.5m a year....I'd rather pay Kelly Jolly about what Holly is making and bring back a VFL to coach who loves the tradition as much as the fanbase.

There's got to be a Holly Jolly joke in here somewhere...

 

[LA Vol]

Even if none of the sports made the first dime, their impact on the over-all bottom line is huge and it's directly related to the TV time and fan apparel sales/use...advertising that others pay you for. Winning on TV and winning tournaments drives fans and drives enrollment. Of course it also turns out that you can make fair bit of money on sports, but dang, these bean counter type ADs seem completely clueless of the real benefit of marquee sports.

I agree. When Pat was here and had the LVs on top of the sport, it helped with recruiting for other programs-- FB, MBB, SB, in particular. The exposure and indirect benefits were huge. Even now, the LVs are one of the most-watched teams in WBB, and even though attendance has declined, TV ratings remain high. WBB and UT benefits when the LVs are good... which is why UT is facing a strategy decision on where the sweet spot is for investment.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You said no chance before. Now you claim that an extra $300 k is making you tuck your twigs and berries?

More so the buyout. I don't recall saying no chance but if I did I was exaggerating for affect.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Basically i don’t expect our ILBs to get much better. We’ve seen them play a lot of snaps. They are pretty much what they are at this point imo.

If the incoming freshman don’t play a lot then that’s alarming IMO.

Disagree. We’ve gotten decent play from Bituli at times. Ignont was getting his first real action last year. I don’t expect them to be world beaters, but experience in the system should help them. Expecting the DL to be much better is... interesting lol but so was seeing KC throw in shorts a few times in spring 2018 and expecting him to make any kind of noise for us.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I agree. When Pat was here and had the LVs on top of the sport, it helped with recruiting for other programs-- FB, MBB, SB, in particular. The exposure and indirect benefits were huge. Even now, the LVs are one of the most-watched teams in WBB, and even though attendance has declined, TV ratings remain high. WBB and UT benefits when the LVs are good... which is why UT is facing a strategy decision on where the sweet spot is for investment.

Having that TV money from the SEC Network helps a lot as well. The Men's program will drive more profit than the Women's program, but if they Lady Vols reach Elite Eight/Title contender levels again it won't do anything but help the university.

A lot of previous buyouts should be rolling off the books fairly soon too. Pretty sure Dooley & Co. are off the books. So just the Botch guys and Currie left I believe?

 

[InVOLuntary]

Walz's total compensation package at Louisville, including base, bonuses, and perks, is around $2M and if UL wants to keep him, they might sweeten that. Plus, a top coach like Walz is going to want to bring all new staff-- who wouldn't?-- and that would at least double the current staff budget. UT's staff is not well-paid. It would triple the outlay to replace the entire existing staff with a top staff-- then add Holly's $690K buyout and Walz's $1.475M buyout to that.

UT hasn't invested in WBB in years. While other schools have been upgrading staffs, UT has been cutting costs with every replacement. Holly was paid less than a third of Pat's salary and replacing Elzy with Gordon saved another $50K. UT has resisted change because it hasn't been cost-effective in a non-revenue sport. This is a strategy decision, and that's how UT is looking at it.

Problem is it can always become more non-revenuing.