Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

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#67,303
#67,303
SweetasSoda said:
Confused. Can’t the coaches put him situations to succeed this fall? He’s shown he has the ability to do so if he’s put there. He may not, but he should have been somewhere on that list because of his performance in the Orange Bowl.
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What makes bowl preparation unique is
1) you have all those weeks after regular season instead of just 1 week in the season to analyze video, and​
​
2) you're analyzing a whole season's worth of video, so you know everything they've done all season, what others have done against them, what each player might do (like "tells" in poker) before certain types of play, as well as what they've done most successfully in various down & yardage situations.​

With all that extra information, it's much easier for coaches to put players in situations to succeed in a bowl game--unless the opposing team's self-research correctly anticipates what the other team is going to try to take advantage of.

That's also why totally overmatched teams often look so good in season openers, even registering huge upsets: because they had all summer to put in new stuff just for that season opening "pays-for-the-rest-of-the-season" game against a football powerhouse.

Adding to that mismatched mismatch, the favored team is likely to play self-limiting "vanilla" so they don't give away anything to their upcoming conference opponent.
 
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#67,304
#67,304
Vol423 said:
...and 1991 was the last time we've been. That's 32 years and counting since we went to the Sugar Bowl. It makes 15 years look pretty minuscule by comparison. Back in the early 90's, I planned to go to the Sugar Bowl the next time the Vols went. I'm still waiting. I was in college then. Now, I'm old.
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We would have went in 1998, but we went to National Championship game instead at Fiesta Bowl. We won SEC championship in 1997 too and played Nebraska in Orange Bowl.
 
#67,305
#67,305
BruisedOrange said:
What makes bowl preparation unique is
1) you have all those weeks after regular season instead of just 1 week in the season to analyze video, and​
​
2) you're analyzing a whole season's worth of video, so you know everything they've done all season, what others have done against them, what each player might do (like "tells" in poker) before certain types of play, as well as what they've done most successfully in various down & yardage situations.​

With all that extra information, it's much easier for coaches to put players in situations to succeed in a bowl game--unless the opposing team's self-research correctly anticipates what the other team is going to try to take advantage of.

That's also why totally overmatched teams often look so good in season openers, even registering huge upsets: because they had all summer to put in new stuff just for that season opening "pays-for-the-rest-of-the-season" game against a football powerhouse.

Adding to that mismatched mismatch, the favored team is likely to play self-limiting "vanilla" so they don't give away anything to their upcoming conference opponent.
Click to expand...
While all of that is true, that’s still using “McGill Math” to predict he will not be good this fall just because you want to temper expectations. There’s just as many reasons to think he will be. Of course I prefer to lean on the side of hopeful. If he doesn’t one of the new ones should do well.
 
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#67,306
#67,306
TheRain said:
Click to expand...

SinfulAgreeableAnemone-size_restricted.gif
 
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#67,307
#67,307
BruisedOrange said:
What makes bowl preparation unique is
1) you have all those weeks after regular season instead of just 1 week in the season to analyze video, and​
​
2) you're analyzing a whole season's worth of video, so you know everything they've done all season, what others have done against them, what each player might do (like "tells" in poker) before certain types of play, as well as what they've done most successfully in various down & yardage situations.​

With all that extra information, it's much easier for coaches to put players in situations to succeed in a bowl game--unless the opposing team's self-research correctly anticipates what the other team is going to try to take advantage of.

That's also why totally overmatched teams often look so good in season openers, even registering huge upsets: because they had all summer to put in new stuff just for that season opening "pays-for-the-rest-of-the-season" game against a football powerhouse.

Adding to that mismatched mismatch, the favored team is likely to play self-limiting "vanilla" so they don't give away anything to their upcoming conference opponent.
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The biggest thing they did for Joe was they didn't give him deep throws early and let him just make a lot of routine throws inside 15 yards from the LOS and it settled him down. Some guys just need help settling into a game. Just my opinion, but I think it's simple with Joe. Don't let him press to make the big play down field when he's amped up early in the game and he's fine. I get that bowl prep is different than regular game prep, but Joe's issues seem to be more about his nerves than his preparation. He's admitted that's he's a bit nervous and amped up early in games.
 
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#67,308
#67,308
BruisedOrange said:
What makes bowl preparation unique is
1) you have all those weeks after regular season instead of just 1 week in the season to analyze video, and​
​
2) you're analyzing a whole season's worth of video, so you know everything they've done all season, what others have done against them, what each player might do (like "tells" in poker) before certain types of play, as well as what they've done most successfully in various down & yardage situations.​

With all that extra information, it's much easier for coaches to put players in situations to succeed in a bowl game--unless the opposing team's self-research correctly anticipates what the other team is going to try to take advantage of.

That's also why totally overmatched teams often look so good in season openers, even registering huge upsets: because they had all summer to put in new stuff just for that season opening "pays-for-the-rest-of-the-season" game against a football powerhouse.

Adding to that mismatched mismatch, the favored team is likely to play self-limiting "vanilla" so they don't give away anything to their upcoming conference opponent.
Click to expand...
So, what you're saying is that we've seen he can be successful if the coaches can put him in the positions to succeed, but you don't necessarily have the faith that the coaches can do that on a consistent basis.

Your concerns aren't really about the players. They are about the staff. So just approach the conversation from that perspective and it'll be much easier for everyone involved.
 
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#67,311
#67,311
SweetasSoda said:
While all of that is true, that’s still using “McGill Math” to predict he will not be good this fall just because you want to temper expectations. There’s just as many reasons to think he will be. Of course I prefer to lean on the side of hopeful. If he doesn’t one of the new ones should do well.
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That's a good point: it is a matter of personal preferences.

I'm just advocating for the player against fan expectations that may not be fair or informed. Clemson adjusted in the 2nd half and I don't believe Aaron had another unblocked blitz path to the QB, and was unable to create pressure when he encountered a blocker. On the other hand (and maybe because of that adjustment) we got more pressure from the edges in the 2nd half. [I haven't broken down the game, I'm just offering eyeball assessment, FWIW]

Beasley had several other notable plays in the game, with some key assisted tackles in short yardage. But I have no idea how he graded out according to the coaches. We fans seldom do. And the same goes for good games: a player may grade out at near perfect performance for a game, but to our eyes he was a non-factor, just because we don't know what his assignments were for that game.

So yes, my personal preference is to lower expectations and be pleasantly surprised when it counts. But I also push back against "fans" robbing our players of recognition for their real accomplishments, just because those fans (not you, but average fans) kept raising their expectations during the off-season, just to manufacture that dopaminergic "football high" we all miss in anticipation of August.

IMHO we would all be healthier (and happier in the long run) if we got our off-season football fix from YouTube, enjoying past achievements through Freak's archiving efforts. Watching those games in their entirety also reminds us that those victories didn't come nearly as easily or as quickly as our selective memories now remember them.
 
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#67,312
#67,312
BruisedOrange said:
That's a good point: it is a matter of personal preferences.

I'm just advocating for the player against fan expectations that may not be fair or informed. Clemson adjusted in the 2nd half and I don't believe Aaron had another unblocked blitz path to the QB, and was unable to create pressure when he encountered a blocker. On the other hand (and maybe because of that adjustment) we got more pressure from the edges in the 2nd half. [I haven't broken down the game, I'm just offering eyeball assessment, FWIW]

Beasley had several other notable plays in the game, with some key assisted tackles in short yardage. But I have no idea how he graded out according to the coaches. We fans seldom do. And the same goes for good games: a player may grade out at near perfect performance for a game, but to our eyes he was a non-factor, just because we don't know what his assignments were for that game.

So yes, my personal preference is to lower expectations and be pleasantly surprised when it counts. But I also push back against "fans" robbing our players of recognition for their real accomplishments, just because those fans (not you, but average fans) kept raising their expectations during the off-season, just to manufacture that dopaminergic "football high" we all miss in anticipation of August.

IMHO we would all be healthier (and happier in the long run) if we got our off-season football fix from YouTube, enjoying past achievements through Freak's archiving efforts. Watching those games in their entirety also reminds us that those victories didn't come nearly as easily or as quickly as our selective memories now remember them.
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It sounds like you are protecting the players by minimizing their achievements and telling the rest of the fanbase that we may just need different players that can succeed in spite of the staff because you also have little faith that the staff deserves our faith either.

And with all that said, you recommend that we watch last year's game and enjoy what we've scraped in the past instead of carrying over the joy and encouragement of a 11-2 season into the future.

You're espousing fear as a virtue and hope as something to be guarded against.
 
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#67,319
#67,319
Orange_Crush said:
It sounds like you are protecting the players by minimizing their achievements and telling the rest of the fanbase that we may just need different players that can succeed in spite of the staff because you also have little faith that the staff deserves our faith either.

And with all that said, you recommend that we watch last year's game and enjoy what we've scraped in the past instead of carrying over the joy and encouragement of a 11-2 season into the future.

You're espousing fear as a virtue and hope as something to be guarded against.
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I think hope is great. It’s when they turn into expectations that things get murky.

I remember during the depths of despair we endured as Vol fans thinking that no one would ever take success for granted again, but we went 11-2 once and now I see stuff like “9-3 is the absolute floor” and I realize I was way wrong. Memories are short.
 
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#67,321
#67,321
Orange_Crush said:
So, what you're saying is that we've seen he can be successful if the coaches can put him in the positions to succeed, but you don't necessarily have the faith that the coaches can do that on a consistent basis.

Your concerns aren't really about the players. They are about the staff. So just approach the conversation from that perspective and it'll be much easier for everyone involved.
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Well, I don't really have any concerns about this team or staff. I think our players are going to be much improved, our roster improved, and we're going to field a very good team (injuries notwithstanding). I also think we may have the most effective staff in the NCAA.

Next season's win/loss column may not accurately reflect any of this, but... that's college football.

To clarify for the sake of peaceful discussion, I'm only saying that bowl games are unique because of the additional prep time the full coaching staff has. That also includes hours you don't get in regular season from assistants who are collecting and breaking down video weeks in advance of scheduled opponents. With all hands on deck and everyone devoting their time to a single matchup (unless in the playoffs), bowl games are "chess matches" to an extent that regular season games just cannot be.

As for individual performance on those first half blitzes, Beasley's sacks came off of unimpeded sprints toward a freshman quarterback. But I don't think anyone should presume anything from those two plays about how good or bad a linebacker Beasley was or will be. On those plays he was the chess piece, and he did (with speed and great timing) what the coaches prepared him to do. There's no denigration in that.

The intent of my original post was to encourage that we not burden Beasley (or any Tennessee player) with pre-season expectations--not because I don't think he's a good LB, but just to let him keep developing and improving according to his potential, and not have his future play judged by the spotlight role he played (successfully) in a January chess match.

We wouldn't do it to our own sons, and we want this program to be special, to be a family. We want recruits to become Vols For Life.
 
#67,322
#67,322
Orange_Crush said:
It sounds like you are protecting the players by minimizing their achievements and telling the rest of the fanbase that we may just need different players that can succeed in spite of the staff because you also have little faith that the staff deserves our faith either.

And with all that said, you recommend that we watch last year's game and enjoy what we've scraped in the past instead of carrying over the joy and encouragement of a 11-2 season into the future.

You're espousing fear as a virtue and hope as something to be guarded against.
Click to expand...
See my longer response above for clarity, but I would briefly respond to your post that hope is always good.

Expectations for others (unless you are a coach and enabling players to meet and exceed those expectations) is not healthy, for fans or for players.
 
#67,324
#67,324
volbeast33 said:
I don’t think he is going anywhere but that sounds like us when he took over…. Except we might not have looked good from the outside.
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Folks need to quit with this talk, good grief DW and Heupel are just getting started here. DW and Heupel are on a Mission!!!! They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon!!!! GBO! Let the good times roll!!!!!
 
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