Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

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In no way is acknowledging that Saban, based on results is a great head coach 280 wins and over 80% winning percentage is no easy task. Do I also think he's cheated at a high level, absolutely. A great coach takes the talent they got and makes them better while also making them perform at a higher level than their talent allows, through scheme, philosophy and everything else in their power.

Josh Heupel is already without a question in my mind one of the best offensive coaches. If he can sustain success here and continue to identify and hire great coaches around him then I think he'll also be thought of as a great head coach in 20 years. And will I also think he likely cheated to get a high level of success, yeah.
Saban is a great coach. Cheating is part of the game. But dude was claiming Saban was "ethical" and didn't cheat. That's a bunch of bull ****. Bear Bryant is also considered an all-time great coach, but it's known he cheated his ass off. He put players on scholarship in sports they didn't even play. Cheating is not new, but some programs are allowed to get away with it on a massive scale, while others have to tread the waters more carefully.
 
If the O line is a liability it will have a very negative impact on how well Joe can perform. That sh!t needs to be cleaned up.

This is my take on our OL –

I listen mostly to Cooper to get a sense of where we are on the OL. It’s his OL. I think everyone knows what we get with Cooper. He’s on the Remington award watch list for best center in the nation this year.

Spraggins has gotten some preseason hype and is projected by CBS to be a first round draft pick.

Crawford and Mincey split the starts and reps at LT last year for the #1 offense in the nation and from everything I’ve read and heard so far from the spring and now in fall camp it seems that Campbell is likely an upgrade at LT this year, especially in pass protection.

Mincey worked at RT during the spring and Crawford mostly stayed at LT. So far this fall early on Crawford has worked at RT and Mincey at LT. I think for both of those guys their primary position this year is probably RT and the reps from the spring was to get Mincey ready at RT and now we’re working to get Crawford ready also at RT. Either one of those guys will need to be able to back up Campbell at LT so which ever one is on one side at this point in camp I’d expect the other to be on the opposite end of the line. jmo.

Cooper has repeatedly praised Dayne Davis, both in the spring and now this fall, as someone he trusts and Dayne can play either side. (He can also play inside). Elarbee said he has 4 tackles ready to go this year. I take him at his word. jmo.

The only position that I think is less settled is LG and we have probably 3, maybe 4, guys trying to win that spot, Lane, Lampley, Karic, and Nichols. Cooper has also had praise for a couple of the younger guys in Clipper and Reddick, both of which stood out to me in the spring game. Cooper has also been positive about Lang at center.

I did a lot of homework on Karic from his high school days through his time at Texas and I’ve assumed that if he can get the offense down he could be a bit of an upgrade for us this year at LG. We’ll see. jmo.

I don’t think we’ll know the expected starting lineup until maybe after the second scrimmage. We have to get reps for all the guys we’re going to be counting on at their respective positions for this season and some of those guys are expected to have the versatility to play more than one position, so they’ll need reps at more than one position as we go through camp.

Some time ago I read a research report on the physiology of college football players and based on multiple research projects it has been determined that on average the greatest strength gains an offensive lineman makes in his entire college career are achieved in the first year of a college strength and conditioning program. In fact they say approximately 40% of career gains in both bench press and squats occur by the end of the first year. There is a slight drop off in the second year to between 34-38% but after that gains are much more modest. The third year produces gains in the 14-16% range and the fourth year averages gains in the 8-10% range for both bench and squats.

Bigger, faster, stronger, it seems, takes a minimum of two years, two years in which between 75-80% of strength gains that a player on average will make in his entire college career are earned.

With that in mind and the conventional wisdom being it takes 3 years to develop a high quality offensive lineman I think you’re probably hoping to field an offensive line composed mostly of older guys. Playing experience is incredibly valuable and playing experience in the same system might be the most valuable. jmo.

We had a good offensive line last year. Football outsiders had our OL as 17th best at run blocking and 57th best at pass blocking. From what’s I’ve heard this year we’re working to improve our pass protection and at least so far the returns from coaches and players have been favorable. I think overall our offensive line could be marginally better this year than it was last year so we’re probably going from good to slightly better. jmo.

$9.99 please. lol
 
A note on recruiting, Bama flipped S Peyton Woodyard from Georgia and jumped us in the rankings.
 
All I have to do to get some is put Poison on repeat

It seems to count as foreplay with the MRS. She is like, "Ohhhh, that's how it is going to be..."
 
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WTH is this Nick Saban love fest? You honestly believe Bama hasn't cheated?? Either you're a Bammer homer or incredibly naive. Bama had one of the most sophisticated cheating systems ever seen prior to NIL, and it's only a matter of time before they adjust that cheating to the new landscape. From paying players to covering up indiscretions, Bama has been a well-oiled machine. And yeah, I'm envious because they've gotten away with it. And I'm mad Kirby was able to take that system to Georgia and succeed. And I'm even madder we had to hire the Gomer Pyle of the bunch who was too stupid to know how to do it.

The only thing I agree with you on is the excitement for Heupel.

Yep. Been on this board 2 months less than you have all this time just to lie in wait and come out as a Bama homer. I don’t know how some of you make it through life/ marriage/jobs. You turn so weak as soon as someone has an opinion you don’t like and just start making up ****.
 
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This is my take on our OL –

I listen mostly to Cooper to get a sense of where we are on the OL. It’s his OL. I think everyone knows what we get with Cooper. He’s on the Remington award watch list for best center in the nation this year.

Spraggins has gotten some preseason hype and is projected by CBS to be a first round draft pick.

Crawford and Mincey split the starts and reps at LT last year for the #1 offense in the nation and from everything I’ve read and heard so far from the spring and now in fall camp it seems that Campbell is likely an upgrade at LT this year, especially in pass protection.

Mincey worked at RT during the spring and Crawford mostly stayed at LT. So far this fall early on Crawford has worked at RT and Mincey at LT. I think for both of those guys their primary position this year is probably RT and the reps from the spring was to get Mincey ready at RT and now we’re working to get Crawford ready also at RT. Either one of those guys will need to be able to back up Campbell at LT so which ever one is on one side at this point in camp I’d expect the other to be on the opposite end of the line. jmo.

Cooper has repeatedly praised Dayne Davis, both in the spring and now this fall, as someone he trusts and Dayne can play either side. (He can also play inside). Elarbee said he has 4 tackles ready to go this year. I take him at his word. jmo.

The only position that I think is less settled is LG and we have probably 3, maybe 4, guys trying to win that spot, Lane, Lampley, Karic, and Nichols. Cooper has also had praise for a couple of the younger guys in Clipper and Reddick, both of which stood out to me in the spring game. Cooper has also been positive about Lang at center.

I did a lot of homework on Karic from his high school days through his time at Texas and I’ve assumed that if he can get the offense down he could be a bit of an upgrade for us this year at LG. We’ll see. jmo.

I don’t think we’ll know the expected starting lineup until maybe after the second scrimmage. We have to get reps for all the guys we’re going to be counting on at their respective positions for this season and some of those guys are expected to have the versatility to play more than one position, so they’ll need reps at more than one position as we go through camp.

Some time ago I read a research report on the physiology of college football players and based on multiple research projects it has been determined that on average the greatest strength gains an offensive lineman makes in his entire college career are achieved in the first year of a college strength and conditioning program. In fact they say approximately 40% of career gains in both bench press and squats occur by the end of the first year. There is a slight drop off in the second year to between 34-38% but after that gains are much more modest. The third year produces gains in the 14-16% range and the fourth year averages gains in the 8-10% range for both bench and squats.

Bigger, faster, stronger, it seems, takes a minimum of two years, two years in which between 75-80% of strength gains that a player on average will make in his entire college career are earned.

With that in mind and the conventional wisdom being it takes 3 years to develop a high quality offensive lineman I think you’re probably hoping to field an offensive lineman composed mostly of older guys. Playing experience is incredibly valuable and playing experience in the same system might be the most valuable. jmo.

We had a good offensive line last year. Football outsiders had our OL as 17th best at run blocking and 57th best at pass blocking. From what’s I’ve heard this year we’re working to improve our pass protection and at least so far the returns from coaches and players have been favorable. I think overall our offensive line could be marginally better this year than it was last year so we’re probably going from good to slightly better. jmo.

$9.99 please. lol
I think OL will gel when it needs to. Right now, coaches are just trying different line ups to see what they like.
 
Yep. Been on this board 2 months less than you have all this time just to lie in wait and come out as a Bama homer. I don’t know how some of you make it through life/ marriage/jobs. You turn so weak as soon as someone has an opinion you don’t like and just start making up ****.
So you're saying you're just incredibly naive. Got it.
 
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Your Saban nut hugging makes me want to vomit. As to ethical, are we discussing the same "leader of men" that didn't discipline players found with guns and weed in their car? Are we talking the same Nick Saban that didn't discipline his player for punching a female? You definitely have a different standard of a good "leader of men" than I do.

aplausos-clapped.gif
 
Your Saban nut hugging makes me want to vomit. As to ethical, are we discussing the same "leader of men" that didn't discipline players found with guns and weed in their car? Are we talking the same Nick Saban that didn't discipline his player for punching a female? You definitely have a different standard of a good "leader of men" than I do.
You sound so weak.
 
There was much wringing of hands from the mods regarding the OL on last night’s VQ chat. Something to keep an eye on — not that we didn’t realize we might take a step back there.

No one even knows who is starting where, currently.

I won’t ever worry with OL in this offense, because they will almost always be better conditioned than the guys across from them. The breakneck pace will gas opposing DL out.
 
This is my take on our OL –

I listen mostly to Cooper to get a sense of where we are on the OL. It’s his OL. I think everyone knows what we get with Cooper. He’s on the Remington award watch list for best center in the nation this year.

Spraggins has gotten some preseason hype and is projected by CBS to be a first round draft pick.

Crawford and Mincey split the starts and reps at LT last year for the #1 offense in the nation and from everything I’ve read and heard so far from the spring and now in fall camp it seems that Campbell is likely an upgrade at LT this year, especially in pass protection.

Mincey worked at RT during the spring and Crawford mostly stayed at LT. So far this fall early on Crawford has worked at RT and Mincey at LT. I think for both of those guys their primary position this year is probably RT and the reps from the spring was to get Mincey ready at RT and now we’re working to get Crawford ready also at RT. Either one of those guys will need to be able to back up Campbell at LT so which ever one is on one side at this point in camp I’d expect the other to be on the opposite end of the line. jmo.

Cooper has repeatedly praised Dayne Davis, both in the spring and now this fall, as someone he trusts and Dayne can play either side. (He can also play inside). Elarbee said he has 4 tackles ready to go this year. I take him at his word. jmo.

The only position that I think is less settled is LG and we have probably 3, maybe 4, guys trying to win that spot, Lane, Lampley, Karic, and Nichols. Cooper has also had praise for a couple of the younger guys in Clipper and Reddick, both of which stood out to me in the spring game. Cooper has also been positive about Lang at center.

I did a lot of homework on Karic from his high school days through his time at Texas and I’ve assumed that if he can get the offense down he could be a bit of an upgrade for us this year at LG. We’ll see. jmo.

I don’t think we’ll know the expected starting lineup until maybe after the second scrimmage. We have to get reps for all the guys we’re going to be counting on at their respective positions for this season and some of those guys are expected to have the versatility to play more than one position, so they’ll need reps at more than one position as we go through camp.

Some time ago I read a research report on the physiology of college football players and based on multiple research projects it has been determined that on average the greatest strength gains an offensive lineman makes in his entire college career are achieved in the first year of a college strength and conditioning program. In fact they say approximately 40% of career gains in both bench press and squats occur by the end of the first year. There is a slight drop off in the second year to between 34-38% but after that gains are much more modest. The third year produces gains in the 14-16% range and the fourth year averages gains in the 8-10% range for both bench and squats.

Bigger, faster, stronger, it seems, takes a minimum of two years, two years in which between 75-80% of strength gains that a player on average will make in his entire college career are earned.

With that in mind and the conventional wisdom being it takes 3 years to develop a high quality offensive lineman I think you’re probably hoping to field an offensive line composed mostly of older guys. Playing experience is incredibly valuable and playing experience in the same system might be the most valuable. jmo.

We had a good offensive line last year. Football outsiders had our OL as 17th best at run blocking and 57th best at pass blocking. From what’s I’ve heard this year we’re working to improve our pass protection and at least so far the returns from coaches and players have been favorable. I think overall our offensive line could be marginally better this year than it was last year so we’re probably going from good to slightly better. jmo.

$9.99 please. lol
how about a nice Casio?

1691528447567.gif
 
I didn’t say he was a saint. I said I find him to be more ethical than Jones and especially Fulmer. Saban can be a bad person and still not be as bad as others. Just like I think Fulmer is an EXCEPTIONALLY bad person but not in the same breath as Urban.Two things can be true at the same time.

Dude, you really want to die on this hill?

Read the room... all I am saying
 
Led Zeppelin destroys them all
Well yeah...they were classic rock of the greatest time in music we may ever see.

Nothing in the 80s or 90s can touch that era. Pretty rough years culturally speaking. Ugly cars, fashion, and meh music overall, though of course there was some redeeming music along the way.
 
Dude, you really want to die on this hill?

Read the room... all I am saying

Sooo since other people disagree with me I should change my opinion? I said what I said. My opinion isn’t changed, although I respect the people who voiced a legitimate argument even if I disagree with them. I’m a grown ass man with a fairly stressful job and a child. The “room” on Volnation is about 80th on my list of priorities. Nothing against anyone. I just don’t care that much.
 
Saban is a great coach. Cheating is part of the game. But dude was claiming Saban was "ethical" and didn't cheat. That's a bunch of bull ****. Bear Bryant is also considered an all-time great coach, but it's known he cheated his ass off. He put players on scholarship in sports they didn't even play. Cheating is not new, but some programs are allowed to get away with it on a massive scale, while others have to tread the waters more carefully.
Bear Bryant sucked. He cheated his azz off and kept the whole league down, and then he would make a big game and get his azz stomped. Repeatedly. He was an embarrassment for the SEC.
 
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