Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

[Jack Burton]

I am traveling to Oxford for the Ole Miss vs A&M game this year. My first time at the Grove. I have my outfit ready to go!View attachment 568499

Make sure to dance around if Ole Miss falls behind. You’ll be on tv for sure.

 

[sonofUT62]

Saban is a great coach. Cheating is part of the game. But dude was claiming Saban was "ethical" and didn't cheat. That's a bunch of bull ****. Bear Bryant is also considered an all-time great coach, but it's known he cheated his ass off. He put players on scholarship in sports they didn't even play. Cheating is not new, but some programs are allowed to get away with it on a massive scale, while others have to tread the waters more carefully.

Who said that Saban was ethical and didn’t cheat?

 

[ReadCT]

In no way is acknowledging that Saban, based on results is a great head coach 280 wins and over 80% winning percentage is no easy task. Do I also think he's cheated at a high level, absolutely. A great coach takes the talent they got and makes them better while also making them perform at a higher level than their talent allows, through scheme, philosophy and everything else in their power.

Josh Heupel is already without a question in my mind one of the best offensive coaches. If he can sustain success here and continue to identify and hire great coaches around him then I think he'll also be thought of as a great head coach in 20 years. And will I also think he likely cheated to get a high level of success, yeah.

I am going to totally mis-quote... but didn't Bear Bryant say of Neyland that, "He would take his and beat you, then take yours and win also"?

Something like that

No one is saying that about Saban

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

Meanwhile our practices are focused and productive….how’s yours going in Baton Rouge Brian!?

View attachment 568631

I wonder if someone fell on a helmet

 

[Adam Sandler]

A note on recruiting, Bama flipped S Peyton Woodyard from Georgia and jumped us in the rankings.

With him and the other safety decommitted, would assume our chances of flipping demello have decreased.

 

[Devo182]

Why would we all of a sudden have a Oline problem? Yes we lost a few, but the others now have another year under their belt, 2-3 deep has matured and hopefully improved, and we added at least one or more in the portal... We might not be at quite the level, but hopefully they are mostly referring to unproven as being the issue...

To play Devil's Advocate:

We've also shedded some top tier talent. Talking Cade and now Darnell in just 2 seasons. We also have (prior to this class) really been unable to refill with top notch raw talent. Could be off by 1, but iirc our last 4-5 NFL draftees for us were 5 stars out of HS. Would be nice to have more studs like that to continue to anchor the line. Never hurts.



That all said, I remember last year the word out of camp was OL worries. And then by game 3 or 4 they turned into one our absolute best units.

I'll keep trusting this staff...

 

[JCP201]

Does it matter what level we’ve cheated at? Either we’ve done it or we havent. And for the record I think that Nick Saban is a far more ethical leader of men than Phil Fulmer or Butch Jones. He’s also a better football coach than both of them combined. I’m so excited for Heupel and think that great things are ahead. Tennessee brought everything that’s happened in the last 20 years on ourselves. It’s not because Nick Saban cheated. I don’t like the man but if he had come to Tennessee in 2007 I would have relished every one of those titles.

I wonder where Pruitt got the idea that it was okay to cheat? Florida State? Georgia? Surely not Bama.

 

[sonofUT62]

I wonder where Pruitt got the idea that it was okay to cheat? Florida State? Georgia? Surely not Bama.

Well he’s coached for his Dad/ Rush/ Saban and Jimbo so I’m sure he learned from all of them.

 

[butchna]

Random thought?

Luckily it won’t be an issue…”unfortunately”.

 

[Devo182]

But dude was claiming Saban was "ethical" and didn't cheat.

Except the OP didn't say that.

He merely said he was more ethical (less shizzy?) than a couple of coaches. Morality is a spectrum. People can be better or worse than others and still be ******** themselves. Our jails are full of more ethical people than Hitler. Being a better person than Butch isn't that tough lol.

And he never said Saban didn't cheat. He actually said our failures "weren't because of Saban cheating" which actually seems to be saying he did cheat...it just wasn't a major cause of our failures vs horrible hiring decisions, etc.


We can have a discussion, but let's at least get the OP's statements accurate.

 

[Devo182]

I wonder where Pruitt got the idea that it was okay to cheat? Florida State? Georgia? Surely not Bama.

Well...all above the above to be honest

 

[Orangeburst]

i like this guy’s analysis
needs to be an R&B singer

 

[Enki_Amenra]

This is my take on our OL –

I listen mostly to Cooper to get a sense of where we are on the OL. It’s his OL. I think everyone knows what we get with Cooper. He’s on the Remington award watch list for best center in the nation this year.

Spraggins has gotten some preseason hype and is projected by CBS to be a first round draft pick.

Crawford and Mincey split the starts and reps at LT last year for the #1 offense in the nation and from everything I’ve read and heard so far from the spring and now in fall camp it seems that Campbell is likely an upgrade at LT this year, especially in pass protection.

Mincey worked at RT during the spring and Crawford mostly stayed at LT. So far this fall early on Crawford has worked at RT and Mincey at LT. I think for both of those guys their primary position this year is probably RT and the reps from the spring was to get Mincey ready at RT and now we’re working to get Crawford ready also at RT. Either one of those guys will need to be able to back up Campbell at LT so which ever one is on one side at this point in camp I’d expect the other to be on the opposite end of the line. jmo.

Cooper has repeatedly praised Dayne Davis, both in the spring and now this fall, as someone he trusts and Dayne can play either side. (He can also play inside). Elarbee said he has 4 tackles ready to go this year. I take him at his word. jmo.

The only position that I think is less settled is LG and we have probably 3, maybe 4, guys trying to win that spot, Lane, Lampley, Karic, and Nichols. Cooper has also had praise for a couple of the younger guys in Clipper and Reddick, both of which stood out to me in the spring game. Cooper has also been positive about Lang at center.

I did a lot of homework on Karic from his high school days through his time at Texas and I’ve assumed that if he can get the offense down he could be a bit of an upgrade for us this year at LG. We’ll see. jmo.

I don’t think we’ll know the expected starting lineup until maybe after the second scrimmage. We have to get reps for all the guys we’re going to be counting on at their respective positions for this season and some of those guys are expected to have the versatility to play more than one position, so they’ll need reps at more than one position as we go through camp.

Some time ago I read a research report on the physiology of college football players and based on multiple research projects it has been determined that on average the greatest strength gains an offensive lineman makes in his entire college career are achieved in the first year of a college strength and conditioning program. In fact they say approximately 40% of career gains in both bench press and squats occur by the end of the first year. There is a slight drop off in the second year to between 34-38% but after that gains are much more modest. The third year produces gains in the 14-16% range and the fourth year averages gains in the 8-10% range for both bench and squats.

Bigger, faster, stronger, it seems, takes a minimum of two years, two years in which between 75-80% of strength gains that a player on average will make in his entire college career are earned.

With that in mind and the conventional wisdom being it takes 3 years to develop a high quality offensive lineman I think you’re probably hoping to field an offensive line composed mostly of older guys. Playing experience is incredibly valuable and playing experience in the same system might be the most valuable. jmo.

We had a good offensive line last year. Football outsiders had our OL as 17th best at run blocking and 57th best at pass blocking. From what’s I’ve heard this year we’re working to improve our pass protection and at least so far the returns from coaches and players have been favorable. I think overall our offensive line could be marginally better this year than it was last year so we’re probably going from good to slightly better. jmo.

$9.99 please. lol

I get more in single post from you than a full year of Volquest. . .

 

[SSVol]

Except he didn't day that.

He merely said he was more ethical (less shizzy?) than a couple of coaches. Morality is a spectrum. People can be better or worse than others and still be ******** themselves. Our jails are full of more ethical people than Hitler. Being a better person than Butch isn't that tough lol.

And he never said Saban didn't cheat. He actually said our failures "weren't because of Saban cheating" which actually seems to be saying he did cheat...it just wasn't a major cause of our failures vs horrible hiring decisions, etc.

But why argue it at all? Nobody here has a clue as to the ethics or morals of any of these coaches. It's incredibly subjective. Choosing to crap on our coaches while doting on Saban, particularly when none of this can be quantified, much less proven, is just causing conflict for no benefit.

 

[Weezer]

With him and the other safety decommitted, would assume our chances of flipping demello have decreased.

Demello seems to be listed as a CB rather than a S now.

 

[franklinpence]

Sooo since other people disagree with me I should change my opinion? I said what I said. My opinion isn’t changed, although I respect the people who voiced a legitimate argument even if I disagree with them. I’m a grown ass man with a fairly stressful job and a child. The “room” on Volnation is about 80th on my list of priorities. Nothing against anyone. I just don’t care that much.

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

Go get your Mega Millions tickets for $1.5 BILLION. Since I reminded you I get 10%

 

[sonofUT62]

But why argue it at all? Nobody here has a clue as to the ethics or morals of any of these coaches. It's incredibly subjective. Choosing to crap on our coaches while doting on Saban, particularly when none of this can be quantified, much less proven, is just causing conflict for no benefit.

1 Its a message board and one element of it is occasionally offering unquantified opinions.
2 Saying that Phil Fulmer is an all time level scumbag and that I consider Saban more ethical than him is not “doting”.
3 If people’s lives are being conflicted by the opinion that a random stranger put forth on a message board then we should just pray for the Rapture.

 

[butchna]

To play Devil's Advocate:

We've also shedded some top tier talent. Talking Cade and now Darnell in just 2 seasons. We also have (prior to this class) really been unable to refill with top notch raw talent. Could be off by 1, but iirc our last 4-5 NFL draftees for us were 5 stars out of HS. Would be nice to have more studs like that to continue to anchor the line. Never hurts.



That all said, I remember last year the word out of camp was OL worries. And then by game 3 or 4 they turned into one our absolute best units.

I'll keep trusting this staff...

2021: “We lost our best OL in Wanya, very concerned we don’t have a SEC level OL.”

2022: “We lost our best OL in Cade Mays, very concerned that moving our only even average SEC level OL from LT to RT will get our QB killed…it’s going to be a long season.”

2023: “We lost GENERATIONAL HOF level talent in Wright and a SEC OL of the Week talent in Carvin. Concerned that Ellarbee doesn’t know how to coach em up better than concerned dudes on a message board.”

 

[SSVol]

1 Its a message board and one element of it is occasionally offering unquantified opinions.
2 Saying that Phil Fulmer is an all time level scumbag and that I consider Saban more ethical than him is not “doting”.
3 If people’s lives are being conflicted by the opinion that a random stranger put forth on a message board then we should just pray for the Rapture.

You're really committed to this. Good luck.

 

[VolXr1]

Here's the side view. Go Vols!

 

[sonofUT62]

Demello seems to be listed as a CB rather than a S now.

Since you’re still around. Quote the post where someone said that Saban was ethical and didn’t cheat. Otherwise you’re just a flat out liar.

 

[butchna]

Except the OP didn't say that.

He merely said he was more ethical (less shizzy?) than a couple of coaches. Morality is a spectrum. People can be better or worse than others and still be ******** themselves. Our jails are full of more ethical people than Hitler. Being a better person than Butch isn't that tough lol.

And he never said Saban didn't cheat. He actually said our failures "weren't because of Saban cheating" which actually seems to be saying he did cheat...it just wasn't a major cause of our failures vs horrible hiring decisions, etc.


We can have a discussion, but let's at least get the OP's statements accurate.

I’m happy for you both…it’s a time of acceptance.

 

[TN-POSSUM]

This is my take on our OL –

I listen mostly to Cooper to get a sense of where we are on the OL. It’s his OL. I think everyone knows what we get with Cooper. He’s on the Remington award watch list for best center in the nation this year.

Spraggins has gotten some preseason hype and is projected by CBS to be a first round draft pick.

Crawford and Mincey split the starts and reps at LT last year for the #1 offense in the nation and from everything I’ve read and heard so far from the spring and now in fall camp it seems that Campbell is likely an upgrade at LT this year, especially in pass protection.

Mincey worked at RT during the spring and Crawford mostly stayed at LT. So far this fall early on Crawford has worked at RT and Mincey at LT. I think for both of those guys their primary position this year is probably RT and the reps from the spring was to get Mincey ready at RT and now we’re working to get Crawford ready also at RT. Either one of those guys will need to be able to back up Campbell at LT so which ever one is on one side at this point in camp I’d expect the other to be on the opposite end of the line. jmo.

Cooper has repeatedly praised Dayne Davis, both in the spring and now this fall, as someone he trusts and Dayne can play either side. (He can also play inside). Elarbee said he has 4 tackles ready to go this year. I take him at his word. jmo.

The only position that I think is less settled is LG and we have probably 3, maybe 4, guys trying to win that spot, Lane, Lampley, Karic, and Nichols. Cooper has also had praise for a couple of the younger guys in Clipper and Reddick, both of which stood out to me in the spring game. Cooper has also been positive about Lang at center.

I did a lot of homework on Karic from his high school days through his time at Texas and I’ve assumed that if he can get the offense down he could be a bit of an upgrade for us this year at LG. We’ll see. jmo.

I don’t think we’ll know the expected starting lineup until maybe after the second scrimmage. We have to get reps for all the guys we’re going to be counting on at their respective positions for this season and some of those guys are expected to have the versatility to play more than one position, so they’ll need reps at more than one position as we go through camp.

Some time ago I read a research report on the physiology of college football players and based on multiple research projects it has been determined that on average the greatest strength gains an offensive lineman makes in his entire college career are achieved in the first year of a college strength and conditioning program. In fact they say approximately 40% of career gains in both bench press and squats occur by the end of the first year. There is a slight drop off in the second year to between 34-38% but after that gains are much more modest. The third year produces gains in the 14-16% range and the fourth year averages gains in the 8-10% range for both bench and squats.

Bigger, faster, stronger, it seems, takes a minimum of two years, two years in which between 75-80% of strength gains that a player on average will make in his entire college career are earned.

With that in mind and the conventional wisdom being it takes 3 years to develop a high quality offensive lineman I think you’re probably hoping to field an offensive line composed mostly of older guys. Playing experience is incredibly valuable and playing experience in the same system might be the most valuable. jmo.

We had a good offensive line last year. Football outsiders had our OL as 17th best at run blocking and 57th best at pass blocking. From what’s I’ve heard this year we’re working to improve our pass protection and at least so far the returns from coaches and players have been favorable. I think overall our offensive line could be marginally better this year than it was last year so we’re probably going from good to slightly better. jmo.

$9.99 please. lol

^^^^pour this all over me. Great post, friend

*just 25 days left

GBO

 

[UTProf]

Except the OP didn't say that.

He merely said he was more ethical (less shizzy?) than a couple of coaches. Morality is a spectrum. People can be better or worse than others and still be ******** themselves. Our jails are full of more ethical people than Hitler. Being a better person than Butch isn't that tough lol.

And he never said Saban didn't cheat. He actually said our failures "weren't because of Saban cheating" which actually seems to be saying he did cheat...it just wasn't a major cause of our failures vs horrible hiring decisions, etc.


We can have a discussion, but let's at least get the OP's statements accurate.

I'd say it's even more complicated than that. You can find people who broke laws but violated no moral or ethical stricture in jails and prisons. E.g. selling weed isn't really a moral offense in and of itself but it can definitely be a legal offense. Same with someone stealing food from a store - it's illegal but not necessarily immoral if what they took was to avoid starvation or to feed their family. Speeding is illegal but not immoral and on and on. Likewise you can find some of the worst people in terms of their ethics and morals who've broken no laws all around us. You can do some pretty horrible things without ever breaking a law.