Recruiting Forum Football Talk XLI

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#6,352
#6,352
Tennessee Golfer said:
I’m open to reconsider. Someone convince me why Mullen would be more than a solid hire (which I think it would be). Convince me with coaching staff, stories, philopsophy, etc. why Mullen is a sexy, championship-level hire.
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Cliffs notes version:

As an assistant:

Position coach for #1 overall draft pick. OC and position coach for heisman trophy winner. OC for two national title teams.

As a head coach:

Has made the worst job in the toughest division of the hardest conference in the country an above average to good program. A program that had only 13 bowl appearances in its history prior to him, he has made 7 in a row and this season will be 8. Has the reputation of maximizing and developing talent and finding good recruits even though all the schools around him have more to offer.
 
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#6,353
#6,353
BruinVol said:
Agreed. Worthless and the same as a verbal agreement which is non binding.
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Oral agreements are binding to the same extent as written ones. An MOU is typically a precursor to a definitive agreement and is usually non-binding with respect to the key terms (but would often have certain binding terms, such as confidentiality).

The university could have signed a MOU or even a real-deal employment agreement with Gruden while Butch is still here... not that I think that has happened.
 
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#6,355
#6,355
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Cliffs notes version:

As an assistant:

Position coach for #1 overall draft pick. OC and position coach for heisman trophy winner. OC for two national title teams.

As a head coach:

Has made the worst job in the toughest division of the hardest conference in the country an above average to good program. A program that had only 13 bowl appearances in its history prior to him, he has made 7 in a row and this season will be 8. Has the reputation of maximizing and developing talent and finding good recruits even though all the schools around him have more to offer.
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How would he recruit at UT?
 
#6,356
#6,356
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Cliffs notes version:

As an assistant:

Position coach for #1 overall draft pick. OC and position coach for heisman trophy winner. OC for two national title teams.

As a head coach:

Has made the worst job in the toughest division of the hardest conference in the country an above average to good program. A program that had only 13 bowl appearances in its history prior to him, he has made 7 in a row and this season will be 8. Has the reputation of maximizing and developing talent and finding good recruits even though all the schools around him have more to offer.
Click to expand...

He pretty much is to the west at MSU what Franklin was to the East at Vandy. If he had similar results at UT that Franklin is at PSU im in i guess. I just want Gruden. That would be epic. Mullen isnt epic.
 
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#6,357
#6,357
BruinVol said:
Agreed. Worthless and the same as a verbal agreement which is non binding.
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Hate to open this back up, but:
1. Verbal agreements are absolutely binding so long as they meet the req'd elements of a contract. The terms can be difficult to prove, if challenged, but they are binding. Certain kinds of agreements can be req'd to be in writing to be enforceable (see Statute of Frauds)
2. MOUs are as binding as they are drafted to be. I've read a bunch of them, and some are practically as ironclad as a formal agreement, and some are explicitly written to bind the parties to nothing. You'd have to have the document in front of you to know.

Edit: drylo'd
 
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#6,360
#6,360
Tennessee Golfer said:
I’m open to reconsider. Someone convince me why Mullen would be more than a solid hire (which I think it would be). Convince me with coaching staff, stories, philopsophy, etc. why Mullen is a sexy, championship-level hire.
Click to expand...

-MSU is Vandy West, if his success there translates to a bigger program as well as Franklin's has, we will all be happy.
-He has had MSU playing their best ball since the 1940's, including spending some time at #1 in the country and finishing 2nd in the SEC behind Bama.
-He was a national and SEC championship winning OC under Urban Meyer
-He coached and developed three of the five QB's in SEC history to reach 3,000 yards passing and 1,000 yards rushing. That, and Dak Prescott's recent NFL success, could prove to be key in keeping Dormady, Guarantano, McBride, Martinez, and Penix in the fold. Not to mention QB recruiting in the future.
-He has great player development. Has produced only one less NFL draft pick during in his nine years at MSU than UT has over the same timeframe. This is despite having significantly lower rates recruiting classes over that period.
-He has shown good judgement in hiring staff, specifically Geoff Collins and Manny Diaz at DC. It just seems he hasn't been able to pony up the cash to keep them when bigger programs have called, this won't be a problem at UT.

If the Gruden deal falls through, and Kelly, Peterson, and Patterson aren't options, Mullen is the next best possible hire.
 
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#6,363
#6,363
VolGee4 said:
Verbal agreements are binding, just difficult to enforce. There are just some areas, like real estate, that have to be in writing.

Edit: two of you got me first.
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Yea we have seen a number of times coaches agree to take a job Verbally and back out.
 
#6,364
#6,364
BruinVol said:
Yea we have seen a number of times coaches agree to take a job Verbally and back out.
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Specifically, I don't recall many of them. But practically, you wouldn't want to enforce it if the guy decides he doesn't want to be at your school.
 
#6,366
#6,366
BruinVol said:
Yea we have seen a number of times coaches agree to take a job Verbally and back out.
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Coaching jobs are almost always contracts that cannot be performed in less than a year, which places them under the Statute of Frauds and requires they be in writing and signed.
 
#6,367
#6,367
VolGee4 said:
Specifically, I don't recall many of them. But practically, you wouldn't want to enforce it if the guy decides he doesn't want to be at your school.
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Also, you can’t force someone to work for you — the only thing you could do is recover money damages, but (a) that would likely be fairly difficult to do and (b) it just wouldn’t be a great look for whoever ended up being your coach if you’re suing somebody else for backing out of the job.
 
#6,370
#6,370
Tennessee Golfer said:
I’m open to reconsider. Someone convince me why Mullen would be more than a solid hire (which I think it would be). Convince me with coaching staff, stories, philopsophy, etc. why Mullen is a sexy, championship-level hire.
Click to expand...

My thought-process is that the careers of what most people would describe as the top HCs are so different it's hard to point at one thing that predicts success, but the biggest thing to me is taking a program to historic highs. I think you could make a decent case that what Mullen has done at Mississippi St is more impressive than what Saban did at Michigan St.

I also think it's a very good sign that Mississippi St has been able to rebuild as fast as they did after Dak left. Schools in their position can stumble upon a few diamonds in a rough and have a few decent seasons and then go right back to 5-6 win seasons. An example would be Kentucky when they had Cobb and Woodson.

Mullen might not scream sexy, but when looking at the hire that made a coach cement their reputation as an "elite" coach, only Urban Meyer at Florida was viewed at the time as sexy. Saban at LSU wasn't a sure thing. Jimbo Fisher, Dabo, Kyle Whittingham, and David Shaw were all in-house promotions. Gary Patterson was a promotion and he built his program.
 
#6,373
#6,373
MrVolton said:
-MSU is Vandy West, if his success there translates to a bigger program as well as Franklin's has, we will all be happy.
-He has had MSU playing their best ball since the 1940's, including spending some time at #1 in the country and finishing 2nd in the SEC behind Bama.
-He was a national and SEC championship winning OC under Urban Meyer
-He coached and developed three of the five QB's in SEC history to reach 3,000 yards passing and 1,000 yards rushing. That, and Dak Prescott's recent NFL success, could prove to be key in keeping Dormady, Guarantano, McBride, Martinez, and Penix in the fold. Not to mention QB recruiting in the future.
-He has great player development. Has produced only one less NFL draft pick during in his nine years at MSU than UT has over the same timeframe. This is despite having significantly lower rates recruiting classes over that period.
-He has shown good judgement in hiring staff, specifically Geoff Collins and Manny Diaz at DC. It just seems he hasn't been able to pony up the cash to keep them when bigger programs have called, this won't be a problem at UT.

If the Gruden deal falls through, and Kelly, Peterson, and Patterson aren't options, Mullen is the next best possible hire.
Click to expand...

Also Alex Smith
 
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