Recruiting Forum Football Talk XX

[rekinhavoc]

North
PWilliams
Malone
Von
Wolf

No excuse not to have a passing game. If you don't trust Dobbs to throw it he doesn't need to be the QB. Butch/Debord are doing nothing to help him.

You suck Lyle.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

1. We still win 7-8

2. Coaches folded in a different way than Oklahoma game. Yes, it's concerning.

3. Fire Butch talk needs to stop. No way on earth he is gone this year, and next year we should be stronger.

4. Two days ago, we laughed at Chip Kelly report. Now, everyone is all in. Kelly got Oregon in a little trouble with the NCAA over the fake recruiting profiles. He got out of town. I wonder if he could bring probation down the road with more sloppiness in recruiting.

5. Something is so wrong with the passing game, that someone must be held in account... Whether DeBord, ZA, Butch or Mahoney. This simply cannot go on.

6. Not sure what the mental make up is of the team, but "losing" the team is certainly not off of the table. It will be apparent, "Kentucky 2011" if that happens

7. Love Butch, but this little habit of blowing 2 TD leads in the 4th is inexcusable. Once, you can get a pass. Twice in 3 weeks? ... There are issues here.

8. Butch is currently not making good game day decisions. His infallible methodology needs some reexamining.

9. I would not be surprised to see DeBord "retire" at seasons end. If so, Butch better go all in on improving the staff position, not status quo.

10. A lot of growth in this team. Remarkable improvement, except in the passing game. Coaches gotta close it though. It sucks. We are literally 2 plays... And there are 20 to choose from, from being 4-0, and everyone in ecstasy. This is the reality, though

Great points, Nick, but I disagree about the coaches folding. They folded the exact same way as against OK. Butch didn't learn one single thing from that loss, and because of that, this team and great fan base experienced another gut-wrenching, inexcusable loss. Just because we called a few gimmick plays doesn't change anything...we didn't have to call them early on against OK, because what we were doing was working. We weren't moving the ball consistently yesterday and that's why we dialed up the gimmicks. We still went ultra-conservative, play not to lose mentality when it go to crunch time in the 4th. What a stupid play call with the QB sweep on 3rd and long! Try something, anything different!! You have to know there is NO WAY that play gets a 1st down.

At this point in time, Butch is starting to lose this fan base. The question will be is he starting to lose his team. If so, we are in trouble, and all of the great things that he has done for this program become rubbish. Saturday is a must win, and now he is in a position that in order to gain this entire fan base back, he has to win one of UGA or Bama.

 

[rekinhavoc]

Support the team. These kids work their butts off. They deserve better.
Coaches deserve every bit of criticism.

 

[itsme]

I still think Butch could be a really good head coach for us, but it would take him bringing in a new offensive staff and becoming more of a hands-off GM type of coach. Not sure he's willing to do that.

I think there needs to be a change of philosophy offensively during the last 10 minutes of a game but the offense didn't give up a 13 or 14 point lead in 2 games this year. I am a fan of continuing to play in the same manner that got you the 13-14 point lead. Rushing 3 and dropping 20 yards back on a 4th and 14 is ludicrous. Really trying to figure out what jancek was thinking there.

 

[Aesius]

My gut reaction after the OU loss was that we lose to UF, UGA, and Bama, but beat everyone else to finish 8-4. I still think that's possible, but it's going to require Butch keeping the team focused on Arkansas this week, and that's going to be tough to achieve.

If he can do it, we will be 3-4 after Bama, but then win 5 in a row and probably the bowl game as well to finish 9-4. It will be a very empty 9-4, though.

I don't think our coaching staff is completely horrible. They will have a big enough talent advantage to win at least 7, but a loss to Arkansas next week may make the wheels fall off.

As for the future...well, I just don't see us ever being better than an 8-4 or 9-3 program under Butch. But that will be enough for him to stay as long as he wants, IMO. Next year we go to A&M, go to UGA, and have Bama and UF at home. Those are 4 very likely losses right off the bat. The Battle at Bristol is far from a guaranteed win now, despite the likely enormous talent gap that will exist at the time.

 

[Gilbert]

I don't suppose there's any team that would want to hire Butch away? Certainly not in the SEC, but maybe Illinois? Though they've already been Zooked.

Illinois, Indiana, Purdue would be great spots for him that could open up. A lot less pressure jobs in an easier conference. Butch would go in and recruit like mad for those teams and could sell his cornball shtick to a fan base that hasn't grown stale by it.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Debord won't retire.

He might slide over and own OL which would allow butch to bring in a money OC

One can hope.

I hope Butch has those people around him who he respects who will tell him straight how it is. People in football who can look and say, "Butch this isn't working and you have to change."

 

[Aesius]

The Arkansas game is truly a must, must, must win now. For both programs, really. A loss will send either team in a death spiral.

Arkansas has us, Bama, Auburn, UTM, Ole Miss, LSU, Miss State, and Mizzou. They could very well come out of that slate with only one or two wins.

I think the players will be focused enough to make it to Arkansas without packing it in. But lose next Saturday, then lose to UGA and Bama on the road? Season is done.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Great points, Nick, but I disagree about the coaches folding. They folded the exact same way as against OK. Butch didn't learn one single thing from that loss, and because of that, this team and great fan base experienced another gut-wrenching, inexcusable loss. Just because we called a few gimmick plays doesn't change anything...we didn't have to call them early on against OK, because what we were doing was working. We weren't moving the ball consistently yesterday and that's why we dialed up the gimmicks. We still went ultra-conservative, play not to lose mentality when it go to crunch time in the 4th. What a stupid play call with the QB sweep on 3rd and long! Try something, anything different!! You have to know there is NO WAY that play gets a 1st down.

At this point in time, Butch is starting to lose this fan base. The question will be is he starting to lose his team. If so, we are in trouble, and all of the great things that he has done for this program become rubbish. Saturday is a must win, and now he is in a position that in order to gain this entire fan base back, he has to win one of UGA or Bama.

During the Oklahoma game, we saw the offense reduced to a few plays, that were getting no where, for almost 1/2 of football. That was the grand mistake in that game.

Against Florida, I see it differently. Florida was not doing a great job stopping us. That drive in the 4th quarter was awesome. They knew we were running the ball, and they could do nothing to stop it. Sure, the passing game could have opened things up more, but we drove it straight down their throats, and into the endzone. There were two big errors, IMO. QB draw, run out of the exact same formation we ran from earlier... the only play we run out of that formation. The other is the QB sweep when Dobbs got handled. That's improvement, from a whole half of mismanaged play calling, though it's still not good enough, and no one is ready to hear "improvement" in the shadow of this loss, myself included.

The huge mistake in this game was in game management. The final minute, which let's be honest, was pretty wild. Butch was trying to figure out if the clock was stopped or not, too many men on the field, timeouts, possible run off penalties... it was crazy. They didn't handle it well... period. The other mistake was going for 2. That's automatic, and I don't see any rationale on earth to convince me otherwise.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

I'm saying 8-4, with losses to OK, FL, UGA, Bama.

Everyone crying about KY needs to get a grip.
USC is awful
Vandy is not going to beat us
Mizzou doesn't have the horses to run this year.
Ark is a test, and I think we win it.

Though I think we lose to UGA, it has all sorts of upset potential if they put it together in Knoxville.

That's my positive spin. Yes, the lack of a OU, FL, UGA, Bama victory is like lukewarm Sprite, but that's probably what we are looking at this year, with a nice little bowl game. I would show more optimism next year, given returning starters and a more seasoned OL, but there is no semblance of a passing game, so I've got nothing to say.

 

[Vols4us]

My gut reaction after the OU loss was that we lose to UF, UGA, and Bama, but beat everyone else to finish 8-4. I still think that's possible, but it's going to require Butch keeping the team focused on Arkansas this week, and that's going to be tough to achieve.

If he can do it, we will be 3-4 after Bama, but then win 5 in a row and probably the bowl game as well to finish 9-4. It will be a very empty 9-4, though.

I don't think our coaching staff is completely horrible. They will have a big enough talent advantage to win at least 7, but a loss to Arkansas next week may make the wheels fall off.

As for the future...well, I just don't see us ever being better than an 8-4 or 9-3 program under Butch. But that will be enough for him to stay as long as he wants, IMO. Next year we go to A&M, go to UGA, and have Bama and UF at home. Those are 4 very likely losses right off the bat. The Battle at Bristol is far from a guaranteed win now, despite the likely enormous talent gap that will exist at the time.

Best case post, IMO. Realism says 6-6 give or take a game. He believes his own BS. He loves his creation and he will have to kill parts of it, perform major surgery on it, to survive. Which includes his own brain and heart. Very limited chance for survival when that happens.

The cradle of successful coaches and offensive systems do not route through Central Michigan. Butch was fortunate to follow others that built the foundation for the programs he was hired to coach. Now he is in the big time and is still thinking he is back at CMU or Cincy.

In truth, Butch's O has the elements it needs to be more successful than they have shown. Not elite, just better. But he is not the guy to make it happen. He has others do stuff for him, while obviously making bad hiring decisions at times. The problem is he doesn't rectify his hiring mistakes. He tries to mitigate the damage, albeit unsuccessfully. As an example what HC that values making $3+ mill a season places his future in the hands of Colton Jumper on the biggest stages in CFB if he has other options? We are sitting here talking about two huge wins if he has the sense to make the decision to sit a scout teamer and play an experienced guy on his roster or the All American he just recruited. Another example; he tells his OC to run that same TE curl over the middle in the last offensive series, or even a slant to a slot. They all have worked every time. But he doesn't do those things and we know he won't after 3 seasons of this.

 

[Aesius]

I'm saying 8-4, with losses to OK, FL, UGA, Bama.

Everyone crying about KY needs to get a grip.
USC is awful
Vandy is not going to beat us
Mizzou doesn't have the horses to run this year.
Ark is a test, and I think we win it.

Though I think we lose to UGA, it has all sorts of upset potential if they put it together in Knoxville.

That's my positive spin. Yes, the lack of a OU, FL, UGA, Bama victory is like lukewarm Sprite, but that's probably what we are looking at this year, with a nice little bowl game. I would show more optimism next year, given returning starters and a more seasoned OL, but there is no semblance of a passing game, so I've got nothing to say.

8-4 in 2015 and 2016. Butch MAY have enough talent in 2016 to pull off a win out of A&M, UF, UGA, and Bama.

We will keep getting third-tier bowls against Iowa-like teams and probably keep winning them due to having an enormous talent advantage and a month of rest. The AD will be happy because we will end both seasons in the top 25 (see: Vandy 2012 and Vandy 2013).

 

[ckilla27]

Have to win the next 2 outta 3. Simple as that

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

if we start 3-4 or worse, the locker room will turn against Butch and it will all be over after that. Headed towards a 5-7 type of year.

This ship is taking on heavy water right now.

HE MUST WIN THE NEXT TWO TO SAVE IT. That's it period the end.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

Have to win the next 2 outta 3. Simple as that

Great minds...

 

[WebbCobb]

Our coaches got exposed this week. Even the media is calling them out and making them look incompetent.

UF is even younger on offense than we are, and they played an inexperienced QB. They had starters suspended and injured and played with less depth than we did. And they still hung in, stepped up and beat us at the end of the game.

This all has a very Zookian feel to it

 

[Jimmy Football]

North
PWilliams
Malone
Von
Wolf

No excuse not to have a passing game. If you don't trust Dobbs to throw it he doesn't need to be the QB. Butch/Debord are doing nothing to help him.

You suck Lyle.

There's a disease in the offense that is causing our passing game to be so anemic. Butch's future may depend on diagnosing and curing it.

 

[Aesius]

It's funny how Tennessee vs Arkansas was hyped up in the pre-season as this meeting between two programs on the rise, and now it has turned into a meeting between coaches who desperately need a win to stay off the hot seat.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

8-4 in 2015 and 2016. Butch MAY have enough talent in 2016 to pull off a win out of A&M, UF, UGA, and Bama.

We will keep getting third-tier bowls against Iowa-like teams and probably keep winning them due to having an enormous talent advantage and a month of rest. The AD will be happy because we will end both seasons in the top 25 (see: Vandy 2012 and Vandy 2013).

Before the hype train, I thought we had a 40% chance of winning the East this year. Then, I bought in, and bumped it to 60%. Given the SEC loss, and holes in the armor, I would say it is now about 25%. If UGA beats Bama, it drops to 5%.

I've had a 2016 SEC East Champ timeline for 2 years. I allowed myself to get a little excited, but I would still say we have the talent to do it next year. I think OL should be average enough. I have two concerns: Coaching, and passing.

 

[volinexile17]

How could it not? CBJ is being pilloried in the media. And what they're saying is true. He's being called out as a bad gameday coach who can't finish games. It will just get worse as our losses mount. His W-L record is already tied with Dooley's.

He burnt all his good will with the media when he went all Vlad Putin with his new media policy.

 

[Gilbert]

I feel bad for the receivers. The "infallible" system is probably ruining some NFL careers in that group.

 

[BruinVol]

Debord was masterful yesterday. It was clear early the passing game couldn't work because of protection . 2 early sacks and we had to adjust. He did that very well.

Debord was far from the problem

I was disappointed by the defense like most but dang I tried to tell you all 53 was starting and in his only drive they scored a TD. Wish I understood what the staff sees there but it was obvious last week that was happening and no one wanted to hear it here.

Jones made the worst decision I have ever seen in all my years of football. 1 finger to not seeing 2 fingers in the air.


Terrible clock management.

Why did the clock run on a false start that was blown dead? 1:06 to 58sec was the difference


100% of this game falls on Jones. End of story

 

[Aesius]

I feel bad for the receivers. The "infallible" system is probably ruining some NFL careers in that group.

The staff might as well just recruit any random 6'4" dudes who look like they can block and spend the rest of their time recruiting OL and DL. Not like they need any guys with 4.4 speed and great hands anyway.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

I've just been minding my own business the last decade, trying to enjoy being a Vol fan, but I feel like gamedays always be like...

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueK3HRHQm84[/YOUTUBE]

 

[VolinArizona]

Have to win the next 2 outta 3. Simple as that

Not gonna happen.