Recruiting Forum Football Talk XX

[triadvolfan]

This is a pretty disheartening quote...

Wow, that's just brutal. The receivers had 2 catches for 7 yards.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I was told $4 mil for jones. I guess another $1 for staff.

The articles I saw said a $4 million buyout for him if HE left. I'm asking about his buyout of we fired him.

Do we have any solid data on that? 4 million seems a bit high after the Dooley debacle. Not saying you're wrong, just looking for a solid confirmation.

Regardless, a 5 million dollar buyout(excluding supporting staff) didn't stop hart the last time we had a team good enough to win 8 games have a losing season. I doubt it would stop him this time with the AD in a much better position.

 

[jjay2518]

My opinion is yall are dreaming if you think the AD will pull the trigger on Butch this year if goes 6-6 or better. Just can't see that happening.

(Not saying you are wrong for wanting/demanding a change if that happens, I just can't see it happening given where we are and where we have come from, and from a money standpoint).

Unfortunately I agree.

 

[DiehardeffingVol]

Dobbs passed a lot more last year with a younger o-line and beat up WR core. I didn't expect a wildcat offense this year.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

The difference in this game were the Florida 4th down conversions. That wasn't on the offense.

Sure the 4th down D was atrocious, but the lack of creativity/mixing on offense ultimately kept the game close enough to where the 4th downs mattered. They shouldn't have - we should have won very comfortably with a properly balanced offense.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Unfortunately I agree.

Me too. I only see a HC change if we have a losing season. And I think we have a good enough roster to win 6 regardless.

 

[triadvolfan]

Dobbs gets ragged on a lot for his passing but these coaches are horrible. No fades, slants, or routes for big WRs. I don't understand this. You handcuff a QB then ask him to make perfect passes when you do let him throw.

Yeah, they obviously don't trust him passing the ball. Maybe Dobbs is just that bad a passer but based on the play calling we didn't get to find out.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

At a certain point patterns mean something.

I feel like our coaches are completely hopeless and...that just makes ME hopeless. We ain't firing them yet. It's just sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I am so sick of waiting.

 

[UTCVol]

Yeah, they obviously don't trust him passing the ball. Maybe Dobbs is just that bad a passer but based on the play calling we didn't get to find out.

He was fine last year. Struggled sometimes, but most young QBs do. He throws to the middle of the field fairly well, which is why I'm wondering why we barely called any today except for the desperation drive.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Yeah, they obviously don't trust him passing the ball. Maybe Dobbs is just that bad a passer but based on the play calling we didn't get to find out.

Id rather have lost the game with us letting Dobbs try to sling the ball around a bit than how we did.


Like you said, asthings stand we don't really know if he's incapable or if it's all on the staff.

 

[Aesius]

At a certain point patterns mean something.

I feel like our coaches are completely hopeless and...that just makes ME hopeless. We ain't firing them yet. It's just sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I am so sick of waiting.

They will stick around just long enough for the talent we've assembled to dissipate through transfers, graduation, NFL, and normal attrition.

The time to strike is now (if the season plays out as expected). Have a new coach in place in December 2015. Butch is fundamentally flawed.

 

[LA Vol]

After tonight, I have come to accept that Butch is what he is. What we see is what we're going to continue to see. He shows no desire or willingness to change and he stubbornly insists that his system is infallible and will work. But it's not working. We have elite talent all over the field, and his system is still not working.

But IDT Hart will force him to make any changes, even if we go 6-6 or 5-7. It's not the money; Hart doesn't want to go through another coaching change. It's a PR nightmare for him, and he absolutely hates the inevitable booster interference.

 

[NMVol]

Sure the 4th down D was atrocious, but the lack of creativity/mixing on offense ultimately kept the game close enough to where the 4th downs mattered. They shouldn't have - we should have won very comfortably with a properly balanced offense.

I tend to think 27 points should have been enough to win. Our lack of depth is really showing up in our 4th quarter defensive efforts. Our long drive was just what was needed. More points hedges defensive deficiencies, I get that. But I think focusing on play-calling in this game is an easy out and misses the point in a way.

Also I get that to some extent this is representative of the Butch Jones line of thinking.

 

[Aesius]

After tonight, I have come to accept that Butch is what he is. What we see is what we're going to continue to see. He shows no desire or willingness to change and he stubbornly insists that his system is infallible and will work. But it's not working. We have elite talent all over the field, and his system is still not working.

But IDT Hart will force him to make any changes, even if we go 6-6 or 5-7. It's not the money; Hart doesn't want to go through another coaching change. It's a PR nightmare for him, and he absolutely hates the inevitable booster interference.

Then Hart will eventually lose his job. Hamilton made horrible hires and got fired. So far Hart is 0-2. Jones sucks and Tyndall was such a bad hire that he should be fired for that alone.

The boosters know that the roster is loaded and landing a big fish is much more likely than it was in Dec 2012.

 

[InVOLuntary]

The articles I saw said a $4 million buyout for him if HE left. I'm asking about his buyout of we fired him.

Do we have any solid data on that? 4 million seems a bit high after the Dooley debacle. Not saying you're wrong, just looking for a solid confirmation.

Regardless, a 5 million dollar buyout(excluding supporting staff) didn't stop hart the last time we had a team good enough to win 8 games have a losing season. I doubt it would stop him this time with the AD in a much better position.

I'm pretty sure the buyout is the same for both parties. I guessed at $1mil for the assistants. As to Dooley, we were obviously on a downward spiral. Butch is at least recruiting well and ticket sales are as high as they've been in a long time. And with ticket saLes you have donations. The fallout from this year won't be felt until the next round of season ticket renewals go out next spring. Major boosters would have to buck up before Hart would make a move this year. Jmo

 

[Aesius]

I swear, we are going to miss out on Chip Kelly and probably at least one other program changing coach.

 

[UTCVol]

After tonight, I have come to accept that Butch is what he is. What we see is what we're going to continue to see. He shows no desire or willingness to change and he stubbornly insists that his system is infallible and will work. But it's not working. We have elite talent all over the field, and his system is still not working.

But IDT Hart will force him to make any changes, even if we go 6-6 or 5-7. It's not the money; Hart doesn't want to go through another coaching change. It's a PR nightmare for him, and he absolutely hates the inevitable booster interference.

If we go 6-6 and is retained he damn well better make some changes. Give him an ultimatum: adapt or die.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

I tend to think 27 points should have been enough to win. Our lack of depth is really showing up in our 4th quarter defensive efforts. Our long drive was just what was needed. More points hedges defensive deficiencies, I get that. But I think focusing on play-calling in this game is an easy out and misses the point in away.

Also I get that to some extent this is representative of the Butch Jones line of thinking.

Good points. I have no answers for the D. They were fantastic on 1-3 down. And it's like they were replaced by a Florida scout team on 4th downs. Butch didn't help by calling two dumb timeouts to let UF scheme up nice 4th down plays either.

 

[LA Vol]

Our coaches got exposed this week. Even the media is calling them out and making them look incompetent.

UF is even younger on offense than we are, and they played an inexperienced QB. They had starters suspended and injured and played with less depth than we did. And they still hung in, stepped up and beat us at the end of the game.

 

[Aesius]

Our coaches got exposed this week. Even the media is calling them out and making them look incompetent.

UF is even younger on offense than we are, and they played an inexperienced QB. They had starters suspended and injured and played with less depth than we did. And they still hung in, stepped up and beat us at the end of the game.

These losses only breed confidence in future opposing coaches. They know that a small deficit against UT late in the game is easily overcome.

 

[InVOLuntary]

These losses only breed confidence in future opposing coaches. They know that a small deficit against UT late in the game is easily overcome.

And the reverse of that is our players won't have the confidence to finish a game. the slightest bit of adversity late will cause them to think " here we go again ".

 

[NMVol]

Good points. I have no answers for the D. They were fantastic on 1-3 down. And it's like they were replaced by a Florida scout team on 4th downs. Butch didn't help by calling two dumb timeouts to let UF scheme up nice 4th down plays either.

Right, especially on the TOs and the odd practice of declining penalties Jones doesn't seem to be helping. He's over-thinking. These are tells and in the end the tells are being acted out in these critical defensive breakdowns.

Edit: Sorry if that sounds convoluted but its along the lines of pointing out Jones' tendency to deflate and disrupt momentum with cold analysis. I mean to say the players pick up on this "anxiety" and play to their coach's diminished expectation.

I know. Still convoluted.

 

[buffaloblue]

This sucks, I like Butch and want him to succeed badly.

I doubt we fire him this year, I think he gets 1 more year unless the wheels fall off.

 

[LA Vol]

Then Hart will eventually lose his job. Hamilton made horrible hires and got fired. So far Hart is 0-2. Jones sucks and Tyndall was such a bad hire that he should be fired for that alone.

The boosters know that the roster is loaded and landing a big fish is much more likely than it was in Dec 2012.

I have been in the camp to fire Hart for years. People always say UT is so poor, they can't afford to hire an elite coach, etc., but that's just not true. Donors would love to pony up money to get a big fish, but Hart resists. Booster money comes with input, and Hart is a lone wolf. He's a lot like Butch; he thinks his way is the best way and he doesn't want to hear opinions to the contrary.

I honestly don't know why UTAD hires the people they do. An overhaul might not be such a bad idea.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

Right, especially on the TOs and the odd practice of declining penalties Jones doesn't seem to be helping. He's over-thinking. These are tells and in the end the tells are being acted out in these critical defensive breakdowns.

Edit: Sorry if that sounds convoluted but its along the lines of pointing out Jones' tendency to deflate and disrupt momentum with cold analysis. I mean to say the players pick up on this "anxiety" and play to their coach's diminished expectation.

I know. Still convoluted.

I'm w you.