Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

[VolGee4]

Wasn't one of the biggest issues last year is that we didn't have a true "big man"? Did we get any this past cycle?

Barnes was left without much of an inside game as Carmichael and McGhee transferred. We got Kyle Alexander last year, and he is tall and athletic but very raw.

He wasn't able to secure much inside help in this freshmen class. Fulkerson is a lean 6'7." Grant Williams is 230+ but only 6'5" like Schofield. We will be playing alot of small ball.

I think they only have 2 scholarships to give for 2017, and they are looking for inside help with both.

 

[VolGee4]

He's definitely not great, IMO. Wildly inconsistent and uncreative to be great. He's proven he's capable of calling good halves though and even a couple good games, so you can't say he's terrible.

And people saying his OL handcuffs him, go watch arky. Austin Allen has been knocked down more times than anyone in the SEC (or close to it) and is still the #1 passer in the league. And Allen isn't mobile enough to escape much, unlike Dobbs. And they have the #1 rusher, despite having just awful OL play. A good OC can scheme around deficiencies, and I just don't see that Debord can do that.

Not going to say that Debord is great, but I am going to continue to say that he schemed some decent plays against Alabama, and Dobbs just made the wrong read. Even the read option. Maybe they are telling Dobbs not to keep it. I don't know. If so, that is coaching. But on the two check downs to Hurd, Dobbs did it so quickly. On the one in the flat, he simply read it wrong as someone was wide open down the middle.

It happens. Dobbs has won us more games than he has lost. But it makes the play calling look bad.

 

[BaldBiker]

He's definitely not great, IMO. Wildly inconsistent and uncreative to be great. He's proven he's capable of calling good halves though and even a couple good games, so you can't say he's terrible.

And people saying his OL handcuffs him, go watch arky. Austin Allen has been knocked down more times than anyone in the SEC (or close to it) and is still the #1 passer in the league. And Allen isn't mobile enough to escape much, unlike Dobbs. And they have the #1 rusher, despite having just awful OL play. A good OC can scheme around deficiencies, and I just don't see that Debord can do that.

IMO he falls into the good range. Is he inconsistent? Yes (although I think lack of execution on players part sometimes skews that). I don't think he is wildly inconsistent. A lot of what he does/calls is to set up bigger plays. Not every play is meant to be a home run or big yardage play, but merely meant to gain some yards (more if the player breaks free). repeating those types of plays a few times is meant to get the defense to cheat towards it when they recognize the set, then hit them with something they aren't expecting/ prepared for.

Good example is the screen pass that everyone seems to hate. A lot of times when they are being called it is to set up something else on a future play. Get the defense to cheat towards it next time, then hit the big play over the top. The problem on many of those screens has been piss poor blocking and the fact that teams didn't feel they had to cheat in order to stop it. That's execution, not play calling.

All JMO of course.

Nice to discuss the actual intricacies of games intellectually though. I've pretty much stopped posting on here recently, because I got tired of talking to morons. I don't have a problem with disagreeing. I do however have a problem with idiots.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Top 5 Elite Coaches in CFB:

1. Saban
2. Meyer
3. Harbaugh
4. Peterson (Washington)
5. Stoops (OU)

2nd Tier:

1. Patterson (TCU)
2. Shaw (Stanford)
3. Freeze (Ole Miss)
4. Fisher (FSU)
4. Dantonio

I don't think Stoops is elite.

I don't think Freeze should be there. He's done nothing but cheat and he's not very good at it.

 

[LotteryPick]

harbaugh is a good coach, but can't be considered Elite in College yet, he hasn't done anything...

He took Stanford to the Orange bowl after they had been down for quite some too. He's elite.

 

[Vols4us]

Thank you.

2012 at Cincinnati
45 catches 722 yards 16.0 ypc 8 TDs

I'd take it.

I would as well. However, to do so would take something on the order of 5-6 targets per game. Which would take somebody else to call the plays.

IMO this offense hasn't really been schemed and play called like Cincy's from the half dozen games I watched when Butch was there.

 

[VolGee4]

I don't think Stoops is elite.

I don't think Freeze should be there. He's done nothing but cheat and he's not very good at it.

Freeze is a good offensive mind who can't figure out how to run and is killing his defense. He can scheme a passing game though.

 

[The Breakerboy]

I would as well. However, to do so would take something on the order of 5-6 targets per game. Which would take somebody else to call the plays.

IMO this offense hasn't really been schemed and play called like Cincy's from the half dozen games I watched when Butch was there.

That's because he's in the SEC. All of that stuff won't work in this league. Defenses are a lot more aggressive.

 

[LotteryPick]

He turned Stanford around. 2 wins to 11 wins in 2 years or something like that? He's an elite coach, pro or college.

How do people forget this?? That Luck led Stanford team was the truth.

 

[WriterVol]

Do you want folks to reach out to their agents first too? You know, to see if they are even interested.

Maybe post salaries as well, just to make sure they are in the same ballpark.

Ha. Half joking, half serious.

With head coaches and coordinators, I think it's a pretty valid request. People cite "hot shot" OCs, but they almost never submit who these hot shots are.

With position coaches, it's a little harder, but it's not impossible.

 

[jave36]

IMO he falls into the good range. Is he inconsistent? Yes (although I think lack of execution on players part sometimes skews that). I don't think he is wildly inconsistent. A lot of what he does/calls is to set up bigger plays. Not every play is meant to be a home run or big yardage play, but merely meant to gain some yards (more if the player breaks free). repeating those types of plays a few times is meant to get the defense to cheat towards it when they recognize the set, then hit them with something they aren't expecting/ prepared for.

Good example is the screen pass that everyone seems to hate. A lot of times when they are being called it is to set up something else on a future play. Get the defense to cheat towards it next time, then hit the big play over the top. The problem on many of those screens has been piss poor blocking and the fact that teams didn't feel they had to cheat in order to stop it. That's execution, not play calling.

All JMO of course.

Nice to discuss the actual intricacies of games intellectually though. I've pretty much stopped posting on here recently, because I got tired of talking to morons. I don't have a problem with disagreeing. I do however have a problem with idiots.

That's another problem I have with Debord. I think he's overly obsessed with setting up future plays. He'll throw that screen pass for a 1 yard gain 10 times just to set up a 20 yard gain later. It's one thing to sacrifice a couple plays in hopes of scoring a big one, but we throw that screen pass for a yard or two a dozen times at least.

But you're right, the players have probably made him look worse than he actually is this year. So many drops. I feel like the WR must be struggling with the mental side of what they're being asked to do, and that's causing them not to be focused on catching the ball. No way these kids who've caught balls their whole life all of a sudden have bad hands, they have to be distracted with something.

 

[The Breakerboy]

Freeze is a good offensive mind who can't figure out how to run and is killing his defense. He can scheme a passing game though.

Dabo deserves to be in there. People thinking otherwise are just blind. Clemson has been winning big for a while now. Been to more than one big bowl and won big against good competition. He's fresh off a title game and back in contention again. Clemson wasn't near where it is before Swinney.

 

[jave36]

Dabo deserves to be in there. People thinking otherwise are just blind. Clemson has been winning big for a while now. Been to more than one big bowl and won big against good competition. He's fresh off a title game and back in contention again. Clemson wasn't near where it is before Swinney.

I'd take Dabo over Jimbo. Can't stand either one personally, but Dabo can coach and recruit.

 

[McGeesPub]

Freeze is a good offensive mind who can't figure out how to run and is killing his defense. He can scheme a passing game though.

If he's a good offensive mind, he should be able to scheme a running game.

Freeze is a mediocre coach with a flexible adherence to recruiting rules. Nothing more, nothing less. How he ended up in this list as a top 8 coach is beyond me.

 

[WriterVol]

Finally watching the game from this past weekend. Haven't gotten through the first half yet, but Tennessee was so close to finding something. Too many negative plays, and that non-PI call against Jennings was a back-breaker.

On the Hurts run to push it to 21, there has been a lot of blame on misalignment by Jumper, but Vereen broke contain on his side, and he wasn't even blocked. There were also no safeties able to make the tackle. Lots went wrong on that one.

They had no room for error but made plenty of them. Obviously, the second half must be worse.

I love that the big return was negated by not one, but two flags that we didn't even get to see. /s

 

[BaldBiker]

That's another problem I have with Debord. I think he's overly obsessed with setting up future plays. He'll throw that screen pass for a 1 yard gain 10 times just to set up a 20 yard gain later. It's one thing to sacrifice a couple plays in hopes of scoring a big one, but we throw that screen pass for a yard or two a dozen times at least.

But you're right, the players have probably made him look worse than he actually is this year. So many drops. I feel like the WR must be struggling with the mental side of what they're being asked to do, and that's causing them not to be focused on catching the ball. No way these kids who've caught balls their whole life all of a sudden have bad hands, they have to be distracted with something.

I don't mind his mindset of setting up future plays. I actually kind of like it. However, i do agree with you that he does seem to overkill some plays. Try it a couple of times. If it doesn't work move on to something else.

 

[VolGee4]

If he's a good offensive mind, he should be able to scheme a running game.

Freeze is a mediocre coach with a flexible adherence to recruiting rules. Nothing more, nothing less. How he ended up in this list as a top 8 coach is beyond me.

I haven't really followed their running scheme, but other than Tunsil, their line has been soft upfront. That's part of the problem.

 

[The Breakerboy]

I'd take Dabo over Jimbo. Can't stand either one personally, but Dabo can coach and recruit.

With equal talent I'd take Jimbo....

He can recruit too.....

 

[BigOrangeVols]

What if we beat an undefeated Alabama in SECC? Do we both go, just them, or neither?

Completely hypothetical

 

[vol2002]

Ole Miss might be in that spot this year

If they don't make a bowl game I bet that drops them to #25 in the final AP ranking.

 

[VolGee4]

Finally watching the game from this past weekend. Haven't gotten through the first half yet, but Tennessee was so close to finding something. Too many negative plays, and that non-PI call against Jennings was a back-breaker.

On the Hurts run to push it to 21, there has been a lot of blame on misalignment by Jumper, but Vereen broke contain on his side, and he wasn't even blocked. There were also no safeties able to make the tackle. Lots went wrong on that one.

They had no room for error but made plenty of them. Obviously, the second half must be worse.

I love that the big return was negated by not one, but two flags that we didn't even get to see. /s

I am not sure that I understood the end result on the return. If I remember, a facemask was called on the defense, and that was declined. The holding was called on us, and Butch took it because it was still decent field position. Can you trip someone to make a tackle? Because I thought they were going to call tripping on the Bama defender who eventually tackled Berry. Watch that replay again.

So, they call that hold on us yet completely miss the obvious hold on the Eddie Jackson punt return. Right in front of the side judge.

 

[BaldBiker]

What if we beat an undefeated Alabama in SECC? Do we both go, just them, or neither?

Completely hypothetical

If we were to g0 11-2, beating an undefeated Bama in the SECCG, it would be very hard for them to keep us out of the playoffs. Not impossible, but very hard.

 

[McGeesPub]

Top 5 Elite Coaches in CFB:

1. Saban
2. Meyer
3. Harbaugh
4. Peterson (Washington)
5. Stoops (OU)

2nd Tier:

1. Patterson (TCU)
2. Shaw (Stanford)
3. Freeze (Ole Miss)
4. Fisher (FSU)
4. Dantonio

You know, looking at this list, it strikes me how cyclical college football really is. During the later days of Fulmer, a big knock on him was that in the 90s and early 00s he feasted on an SEC with a plethora of bad coaches- Ray Goff/Donnan at UGA, Dubose at Bama, Bowden at Auburn, and whatever stiffs Arkansas, USC, Kentucky and Vandy trotted out that year. Then, as we got into the 00s, you had Spurrier (his lone nemisis in the glory years) bridge from Florida to USC, Meyer at Florida, Saban bridging LSU and Bama, Richt at UGA, Tuberville going from Ole Miss to Auburn, and all of the sudden you had a ton of elite to near-elite coaches in the SEC, and it ascended to the top of the college football world.

Now, I don't think there is a single elite coach aside from Saban in the SEC. Moreover, I think it's debatable whether any present coach in the SEC even has the potential to be elite. I like Butch, and hope he becomes elite, but I think it's still very much a toss-up.

My point though, is that this is the worst roster of SEC coaches in two decades.

Just a thought.

 

[BigOrange15]

You know, looking at this list, it strikes me how cyclical college football really is. During the later days of Fulmer, a big knock on him was that in the 90s and early 00s he feasted on an SEC with a plethora of bad coaches- Ray Goff/Donnan at UGA, Dubose at Bama, Bowden at Auburn, and whatever stiffs Arkansas, USC, Kentucky and Vandy trotted out that year. Then, as we got into the 00s, you had Spurrier (his lone nemisis in the glory years) bridge from Florida to USC, Meyer at Florida, Saban bridging LSU and Bama, Richt at UGA, Tuberville going from Ole Miss to Auburn, and all of the sudden you had a ton of elite to near-elite coaches in the SEC, and it ascended to the top of the college football world.

Now, I don't think there is a single elite coach aside from Saban in the SEC. Moreover, I think it's debatable whether any present coach in the SEC even has the potential to be elite. I like Butch, and hope he becomes elite, but I think it's still very much a toss-up.

My point though, is that this is the worst roster of SEC coaches in two decades.

Just a thought.

Good post.

 

[grobin4300]

harbaugh is a good coach, but can't be considered Elite in College yet, he hasn't done anything...

What makes Harbaugh ELITE are the 3 programs that he inherited and within 2 years those programs won conf championships even in the NFL, he did the same thing and after he left SF.........look how bad they got PRETTY FAST.........